pounce 0 Posted July 6, 2014 I'm not sure if this has had any visibility, but I just noticed Cannon bought Milestone recently. http://www.milestonesys.com/Documents/Press-releases/2014/20140613---Canon/ I don't have a thought of whether this is good or bad for the rest of us. I only noticed because I was getting ready to make some license purchases and was reading through their news feed to see if I was missing anything... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buellwinkle 0 Posted July 7, 2014 So far they are saying they will let Milestone run autonomously. I doubt Canon will kill a cash cow to sell more mediocre, yet expensive Canon cameras. The most I see happening is maybe a Canon branded NVR with Milestone on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jhonovich 0 Posted July 7, 2014 Milestone is far from a cash cow. Milestone's 2013 revenue was ~$72 million USD. Canon's revenue was 500x greater than that - $36 billion USD. Even among surveillance companies, Milestone's revenue was mid tier at best (closest revenue comparable - Geovision). Selling more Canon cameras is the best way for Canon to maximize revenue growth as Canon easily gets 4x more revenue for every camera sale than Milestone gets on a VMS license. We have a thorough analysis and discussion on the Milestone / Canon deal here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buellwinkle 0 Posted July 8, 2014 That's one way to look at it, but I'm comparing Milestone's revenue to Canon's network camera business and it's not $36B. First, the division they call Industry & Other business units that includes network cameras is 10% of the $36B pie in their last annual report. Then that's made up of 11 business units that are more significant and they don't show it down to that level. I doubt that Canon is selling $72m in network cameras. Then Canon bought it via it's subsidiary, Canon Europa N.V., not sure if how that fits in as Canon does not show that separately in their annual report either. That division has been on a steady decline dropping ~10% over the previous year's revenue. They promised their shareholders 20% growth in that division and it appears they are doing it via acquisition as they can't do with the products they have now. My guess is they doubled their network camera business revenue by buying Milestone. So to that tiny division that handles network cameras, this is their revenue cow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jhonovich 0 Posted July 8, 2014 Milestone is a tiny part of Canon, however you cut it. Even for their division, Milestone revenue is just 2%. And if Milestone is such a 'cash cow' as you claim, how is it that their 2013 net income (i.e., profits) was just ~$6 million? And what is $6 million in profits to a company that did $2.2 billion in profits in 2013? I return to your original proclamation: "I doubt Canon will kill a cash cow to sell more mediocre, yet expensive Canon cameras." Network cameras generate far more revenue and profits than VMS software. If Canon can use Milestone to sell more Canon cameras, and they can, just like Tyco is using Exacq to sell more AD cameras, it will generate far greater returns than simply selling VMS licenses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buellwinkle 0 Posted July 8, 2014 So what you are saying is that Milestone made 6m on 72m or 8.3% profit and Canon made 2.2B on 36B or 6.1% profit meaning that Milestone has a higher profit ratio than Canon as a whole, that's great. It's a cash cow, they buy something and it makes money. If John bought a single cow and made money from it's milk, the money it makes will not likely sustain him as it may represent a small fraction of his annual expenses. So John would have to buy many cows to make enough profit to live comfortably. Milestone is just one cash cow out of many cash cows that make the $2.2B that makes Canon profitable. To say one cow is insignificant is short sighted, they are all part of the greater good. Now to say that you can leverage manure from the cow to grow more corn and make higher profits in other products, sure, it can happen. I just think it's going to take a lot of bull manure to make people want to buy Canon cameras just because they own Milestone. Just one farmer's 2 cents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jhonovich 0 Posted July 8, 2014 "To say one cow is insignificant is short sighted, they are all part of the greater good." This whole analogy is silly. First of all, even using it, this is the equivalent of Canon already having 500 cows and buying 1 more. It's literally a trivial move from a cash / milk generating perspective. More importantly, Canon, like all other major manufacturers selling surveillance, generates far more profits and revenues by cross-selling cameras and recorders. Returning to your original assertion, "I doubt Canon will kill a cash cow to sell more mediocre, yet expensive Canon cameras." Milestone does not generate a lot of cash, relative to Canon, the industry, or IP camera manufacturers. The most profit-maximizing move is to use Milestone products, sales channels and install base to help sell more Canon cameras. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
51cent 8 Posted July 8, 2014 Canon may have decided to get more serious about their network cameras. There may possibly be a Milestone camera in the future? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voip-ninja 0 Posted July 8, 2014 Hopefully Canon can have a positive influence on Milestone. While I have, on the whole, been satisfied with x-protect there is tons of room for improvement. I'm still battling a bug that Milestone spent over 12 weeks working with me on, and then claimed it would be fixed in the next release, which it wasn't. I would love to see some Canon cameras to compete with Axis and others assuming that Canon can do it right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pounce 0 Posted July 8, 2014 What's the installed base of Milestone and how many cameras in the field running? I'd imagine that if Cannon is thinking about improving its products and going after this market a tighter integration with perhaps enhanced proprietary functions available to Milestone users could maybe sell cameras. If Milestone software creates "stickiness" for the customer base then camera upgrades are a good angle. Pair a camera system with a smart thermostat, alarm system, power monitoring and entertainment system and you have ...oh wait Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voip-ninja 0 Posted July 8, 2014 What's the installed base of Milestone and how many cameras in the field running? I'd imagine that if Cannon is thinking about improving its products and going after this market a tighter integration with perhaps enhanced proprietary functions available to Milestone users could maybe sell cameras. If Milestone software creates "stickiness" for the customer base then camera upgrades are a good angle. Pair a camera system with a smart thermostat, alarm system, power monitoring and entertainment system and you have ...oh wait Well the probably with the "internet of things" that is currently going on for thermostats, lighting, etc, is that the only cameras/systems that currently work with this stuff are simply toys. I do think eventually some of the big vendors are going to try to tie into this market, but don't see that being a factor for a while yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buellwinkle 0 Posted July 8, 2014 Has anyone here with Milestone upgraded to the new 2014 version yet. I did just now, don't see much of a difference, but I had trouble recently with the mobile client and it's working well now. And for what it's worth, no Canon logo. If anyone needs to know how, PM me, I put together instructions with the screenshots of converting the license from 2013 to 2014. I don't want to make it generally public until someone besides me tries it and verifies the instructions. Also, I'm running it on the Intel NUC, a 4.5" square i5 computer and it's awesome. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilkevinli 0 Posted July 9, 2014 I've been running it for the last 3 weeks. No issues. I do like some of the cosmetic changes they made. Has anyone here with Milestone upgraded to the new 2014 version yet. I did just now, don't see much of a difference, but I had trouble recently with the mobile client and it's working well now. And for what it's worth, no Canon logo. If anyone needs to know how, PM me, I put together instructions with the screenshots of converting the license from 2013 to 2014. I don't want to make it generally public until someone besides me tries it and verifies the instructions. Also, I'm running it on the Intel NUC, a 4.5" square i5 computer and it's awesome. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voip-ninja 0 Posted July 10, 2014 Has anyone here with Milestone upgraded to the new 2014 version yet. I did just now, don't see much of a difference, but I had trouble recently with the mobile client and it's working well now. And for what it's worth, no Canon logo. If anyone needs to know how, PM me, I put together instructions with the screenshots of converting the license from 2013 to 2014. I don't want to make it generally public until someone besides me tries it and verifies the instructions. Also, I'm running it on the Intel NUC, a 4.5" square i5 computer and it's awesome. I updated to it a month or so ago hoping that the new version included the bug fix I was promised for a problem I have (it didn't). The new version is fairly similar to the older one but they have improved and streamlined some things and the mobile server has gotten much more efficient. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pounce 0 Posted July 12, 2014 Also, I'm running it on the Intel NUC, a 4.5" square i5 computer and it's awesome. Cool. Are you using the one with the 2.5 drive support or the other one? External drive? Curious how well the storage works with multiple streams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buellwinkle 0 Posted July 12, 2014 I'm using the Samsung 2.5" 95mm 2TB drive, nice and quiet, no issue with recordings or playback. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
