Will Cat6 wowrk better than Cat5e for a 350 foot run?

[ANiforos 0]

Hi there,

I've been perusing over these pages for several weeks now and just like most things, there are lots of opinions on what is good, what is bad, and what is mediocre.

 

I recently purchased a Costco system....I know I know, some think its trash, some think its OK. Their return policy is one reason why I got the system there. Its the Lorex Stratus, LNR 363C9B,16 channel, 9 camera, 3 TB HD, 1080P. It came with 100' of Cat5e cable for each camera.

 

One thing I am contemplating doing is buying different wire instead of opening all the included coils. I got the idea from this site. One reason for different wiring is to be able to run my wiring without ends, and then install ends after the wiring is in place. This allows for smaller holes to be drilled and easier pulling of the cable without ends attached. I live in a log house and I prefer smaller holes if possible. Plus, if I don't uncoil all the included wire, it will be easier to take back in the event the system ends up being trash.

 

So, my two questions are as follows:

 

One of my runs will be approximately 350' or so. I am aware of the 328' limit, but is this a hard and fast rule? Will a bit more distance really make that much difference.

 

The 350' run is to a camera outside, so cable will have to be installed either underground or in a pvc pipe underground. I'm considering either Cat5e direct burial, or Cat6 direct burial. Is there any advantage of using Cat6 due to the distance......will Cat6 work better due to its size being larger.....if it is larger. I'm assuming it is, but maybe not.

 

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

 

Alex

[mgb 0]

Cat 6 still has the same 328 feet rule as cat 5e.

Remember too that measurement includes any patch cables within that run.

I have had jobs where the run was right up to the limit using cat 6 and had Poe issues but these were domes with fans.

You can purchase repeaters and mid span power injectors.

[ANiforos 0]

Thank you mgb.

 

I have been researching cat5e cable and I've seen notations of "underground, or direct burial waterproof tape". What is the "waterproof tape"?

[ANiforos 0]

Should I get shielded or unshielded?

[Q2U 0]

...What is the "waterproof tape"?

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AEBH4Y0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[ANiforos 0]

Thanks for your input.

 

I have decided to use Cat5e, direct burial, solid copper (not CCA), but I am still unsure about whether to use shielded or unshielded. I called Lorex and a person I could hardly understand said to use shielded. I have read posts on here that say to use unshielded, as shielding changes the frequency. I would rather use unshielded as I think it would be easier to pull and crimp ends on it. Please correct me if I am wrong about that (easier to pull unshielded).

 

Thanks again for any input from you wonderful people.

 

Alex

[mgb 0]

I don't rely see why you'd need shielded.

First off, I'll say, I have never used direct burial cat 5 before but I don't see why burying it means a need for shield. Unless if course, you're going to bury it close to underground power cables.

Shielding is to block emi from nearby equipment. Keep your runs clear and you should be good.

Have you thought about how you're going to deal with the longer run?

[Dirk_D 0]

direct burial is going to be a mess....I've only used it once at a gas station and it was not fun at all - the cable was heavier & much stiffer, and flooded with some sort of silicone - very difficult to work with. Standard cable in a conduit will be just fine. I guess the direct burial is to protect from damage to the cable & wire insulation from rocks & dirt. Standard cable will fail in underground conduits due to breakdown & then water intrusion, but if you handle it somewhat carefully you should get 10-20 years out of it. 5-8 if you don't, less if you nick it, damage the insulation.

[ssnapier 0]

pro tip...

 

buy a pack of baby wipes to deal with the goo that comes out of the direct buried cable, it makes cleaning the cable and your fingers a LOT easier!

[ANiforos 0]

Thanks for everyone's input.

 

I just purchased a 1000' roll of intertek Cat5e wire. Here is what the label says:

 

Outdoor Cat5e. 350 MHZ Direct Burial (PE Jacket), Water Block Tape.

 

Norfolk Wire & Electronics, the company I purchased it from printed off the spec sheet for me. The spec sheet is from WAVENET, apparently the company who makes or distributes the wire. It does not have any goo in it. Some direct burial wire is gel filled, and others are not. This one is not.

IT is also unshielded. I wasn't particularly wanting shielded, I just didn't know if I needed it or not. Apparently its not necessary for what I am doing.

 

I had asked earlier about the "tape" labeling I had seen on the internet. Apparently the tape refers to the soft cloth type wrap that is between the grouping of twisted pairs and the outer jacket.

 

I have noticed that the outer jacket on this particular wire is a little more flexible and not a perfectly round as another direct burial wire I had seen at Lowes Home Improvement. The one I purchased almost looks and feels like it is regular riser ethernet cable, but it is labeled on the side of the jacket as being outdoor direct burial. The Lowes version had a white, perfectly round hard insulation around the twisted pairs, as well as an outer jacket covering the entire thing. The Lowes actually looked better, but they had no spec sheet and there was no sticker on the side of the reel describing exactly what it was made of. I decided on this "tape" version because it seemed a bit more flexible and I thought wiring my log house would be easier.

 

To answer an earlier question about what I plan on doing for that long 350' run.......I'm not sure yet. I may just try the long run without using any type of extender. If I have to, I'll buy a repeater and install it in the line. I am assuming that no damage will be done to the equipment by trying a longer run that the 328 feet, that I will just get a crappy image. If actual damage might occur, please feel free to inform me.

 

Thanks again for all the great suggestions and input.

 

Alex

[ANiforos 0]

Of course, I remembered something I wanted to ask. I live in a log house, 6" thick and 12" high. They are dovetailed at the corners, so the logs do not sit on top of each other except at the dovetail. There is insulation and chinking in between the logs. I built it in 1992. It is a Hearthstone Log Home, they are out of Dandrige Tennessee.

 

Somewhere along the line when I was building the house or just after I built it, I was told that a good thing to do before the insulation and chinking was put in.......and after the wiring was put in, to take a picture of each wall so I could sort of tell where the wiring was run in case I needed to do any renovation or some such thing. Well, I did not take the pictures and every time I go to drill a deep hole I am terrified that I am going to hit a wire, which would be a disaster since you cannot just open up a log. I remember the logs being predrilled with holes for vertical runs and then some of the horizontal runs were between the logs in the insulation and chinking area. I called Hearthstone yesterday for help and was told that there are vertical holes drilled in the middle of a log (3 inches from the inside or ourside of a log) , remember, the log are 6" thick, and that these vertical holes are about one foot from either side of a dovetailed corner, and one foot either side of a door or window. Other than that, he could not help me as they don't keep plans from that long ago (1992).

 

Sooo, to make a long story short, is there a device that electricians use to locate wiring in a wall, sort of like a stud finder, that would detect wiring 3" deep in a solid log wall? I have a little magic marker shaped device, an AC voltage detector, that detects AC current, but it is for an inch or so to determine if wiring has current going through it. It doesn't really work for what I need.

 

Thanks again for any input.

 

Alex

[mgb 0]

Yes, I think Ideal makes a meter that will generally locate them.

[jjp2014 0]

Bosch D-Tect150 D-Tect Wallscanner

 

This is what I have on my truck!!!

 

I rented one for a few jobs, then bought one best $800.00 spent

-concrete

-wood

I get reads up to 8" detects low/high, water, ferrous and non-ferrous!

 

For any run over 25' using POE use shielded cable...ESPECIALLY Outdoors... whether in a conduit or not, if it gunna be in a wet situation use the gel fill...

 

It will save your ass every time..

 

As far as extenders use a NEMA-4 rated outdoor enclosure and lots of silicone

 

PROTIP: if you run in a conduit RUN two cables and a PULL line >> always pays off

[mgb 0]

I definitely agree with the tip on running extra lines in the conduit.

But are you saying to use shielded cat 5e for Poe over 25' even indoors? I'm on many many large commercial jobs with long runs of cat6 and its never shielded.

[thewireguys 3]

I definitely agree with the tip on running extra lines in the conduit.

But are you saying to use shielded cat 5e for Poe over 25' even indoors? I'm on many many large commercial jobs with long runs of cat6 and its never shielded.

 

 

+1 on that... Also if you don't terminate the shield properly you will do more harm then good.

[empak 0]

Looking at the limit of the long run, I once did the outside of a Mall that had a camera run of about 395'. I ran the conduit and placed sealed box at about 125' pulled 23awg copper cat6 for the entire length of the run, left a 4' loop of the cat6 in the box and ran a 16 awg LTV to the box at 125' to run a repeater or small PoE switch if I had problems, first try I connected the PoE camera and it worked with no problems on the 400' run. The repeater was never used. I checked back a few times, never had a problem with the camera it worked just as good as the other camera connected to the system. The camera that was installed on this run was a Vivotech IP7361 with IR, works fine down to -50c so far, the camera never has needed a reboot in three years.

 

I would think that running the 23awg cat6 gave the advantage over the network length limit of 328 ft

 

empak

[empak 0]

Thanks jjp2014,

 

I think I just found the next must add installation tool to go with my Magnespot XR1000 Extended Range Reference Point Locator will make a great pair.

 

empak

 

Bosch D-Tect150 D-Tect Wallscanner

 

This is what I have on my truck!!!

 

I rented one for a few jobs, then bought one best $800.00 spent

-concrete

-wood

I get reads up to 8" detects low/high, water, ferrous and non-ferrous!

 

For any run over 25' using POE use shielded cable...ESPECIALLY Outdoors... whether in a conduit or not, if it gunna be in a wet situation use the gel fill...

 

It will save your ass every time..

 

As far as extenders use a NEMA-4 rated outdoor enclosure and lots of silicone

 

PROTIP: if you run in a conduit RUN two cables and a PULL line >> always pays off

[Dirk_D 0]

the magnespot is nice, but I'll pass on the bosch (I'm sure it's good too).

[jjp2014 0]

I reviewed my post to find i had typed over my text Anything over 25' in an exposed run to wifi radio...

The D-tech unit is effective but at $800.00 definitely brisk price! but so was my FLUKE DTX

[empak 0]

Stop that.... your going to make me broke trying to keep up.... so many nice toys ..er tools and so little time.... what to get next.?

 

empak

 

I reviewed my post to find i had typed over my text Anything over 25' in an exposed run to wifi radio...

The D-tech unit is effective but at $800.00 definitely brisk price! but so was my FLUKE DTX