5mp practical resolution increase over 1080p

[aurmol 0]

I finally returned the dahua 5mp and exchange for a 4300s. I was glad I did. The low light performance of the 4300S is better than the 5mp. There is more noise in the 5mp. And even with Auto Exposure in the 4300S. You can have facial recognition.. while in the 5mp.. there is only blur.. you have to set it to Low Motion blur to see a face. and with only 12fps.. there is less sampling than the 4300s 20fps. Maybe it is because the single pixel sensor of the 5mp is smaller in comparison to the 3mp (so more noise)?

 

The colors of the 4300S is also not bad. I'm expecting them to be faded like what Buellwinkle seemed to say.. but it can still recognize the difference between two shades of red for example.

 

Well. If you still want the 5mp.. it may be good at daytime as you have 1.2x linear resolution advantage over the 3mp (right Maxicon?) and try to test yourself its low light performance.. don't just believe what I said above because i'm not a professional reviewer.

[buellwinkle 0]

Good choice. I believe they 1080P/3MP Hiks and Dahua are the best in their category. If you go 5MP, the only two I used that I like costs a bit more, the Axis P3367-LVE and Bosch Dinion Starlight 8000MP.

[aurmol 0]

Good choice. I believe they 1080P/3MP Hiks and Dahua are the best in their category. If you go 5MP, the only two I used that I like costs a bit more, the Axis P3367-LVE and Bosch Dinion Starlight 8000MP.

 

With your great dynamic range emphasis of the 4300s.. I got 3 of them and another 4 channel nvr with 4 poe ports. I think I remember the pc lan cable can be connected directly to the nvr 4th poe port to access the 3 camera setup menu (to enable or disable WDR for example)? Won't the power in the nvr poe port fry the computer lan card? Has anyone tried this?

 

Also where to look in the nvr what is the remaining incoming bandwidth allocation (already used and free)? Thanks.

[buellwinkle 0]

Won't the power in the nvr poe port fry the computer lan card? Has anyone tried this?

 

I never had a problem plugging in a non-PoE device into a PoE port on a switch. I have a lose Ethernet cable on my desk, connected to a PoE switch that I use to plug in cameras, NVRs, PC's for testing purposes and never had an issue.

[aurmol 0]

Won't the power in the nvr poe port fry the computer lan card? Has anyone tried this?

 

I never had a problem plugging in a non-PoE device into a PoE port on a switch. I have a lose Ethernet cable on my desk, connected to a PoE switch that I use to plug in cameras, NVRs, PC's for testing purposes and never had an issue.

 

Thanks. Last question before I forget about cctv and go elsewhere. Are the expensive $2000 Axis 3MP or Bosch 3Mp significantly better than the $85 dahua 3Mp.. or they are *almost* indistinguishable? If better.. how exactly better.. like there is 50% or twice greater dynamic range in the more expensive unit? Any comparison images directly between them? (In your web site, the images of each are at different time so shadows are inherently different to start with). Anyway. Does it translate to revolving more shadows and details at night? By how much?

[ssmith10pn 0]

Won't the power in the nvr poe port fry the computer lan card? Has anyone tried this?

 

I never had a problem plugging in a non-PoE device into a PoE port on a switch. I have a lose Ethernet cable on my desk, connected to a PoE switch that I use to plug in cameras, NVRs, PC's for testing purposes and never had an issue.

 

Thanks. Last question before I forget about cctv and go elsewhere. Are the expensive $2000 Axis 3MP or Bosch 3Mp significantly better than the $85 dahua 3Mp.. or they are *almost* indistinguishable? If better.. how exactly better.. like there is 50% or twice greater dynamic range in the more expensive unit? Any comparison images directly between them? (In your web site, the images of each are at different time so shadows are inherently different to start with). Anyway. Does it translate to revolving more shadows and details at night? By how much?

 

When you have 1100 cameras at one site do you want an Axis camera that up to 5 years later you can make a phone call to a real English speaking person in the US and have an advance replacement at your door the next morning? Or do you want to take your chances with 1100 85.00 Chinese knockoff cameras?

 

Also,

Almost every Enterprise level VMS (possibly all) support Axis.

[buellwinkle 0]

Thanks. Last question before I forget about cctv and go elsewhere. Are the expensive $2000 Axis 3MP or Bosch 3Mp significantly better than the $85 dahua 3Mp.. or they are *almost* indistinguishable? If better.. how exactly better.. like there is 50% or twice greater dynamic range in the more expensive unit? Any comparison images directly between them? (In your web site, the images of each are at different time so shadows are inherently different to start with). Anyway. Does it translate to revolving more shadows and details at night? By how much?

 

First understand that Dahua and Hikvision have little to no factory support, especially when buying directly from China. So you are on your own. When you start getting into Hikvision or Dahua that compete with Axis or Bosch, the price differential is not as great as you think. You are basically looking at the lowest end from these China based companies to the highest end from Europe. So you can't say compare a 5MP Bosch Starlight for say $1,200 to an $85 camera from China, the image quality difference are truly staggering, but when you've only eaten hamburger all your life, you may not appreciate steak. That's not to say the lower end Hikvision are bad, they are quite good, but far from the best. For example, to compete with Bosch's $1,200 camera, you would have to get the Hikvision Darkfighter camera which is 1080P (not 5MP) and that would cost $800ish just for the camera. At that price point, I would easily buy Bosch over the Hikvision for the better quality and better support and double the resolution. Then there's Axis, yes their higher end cameras can be pricey, but the quality is very good and has features not found in the low end from China, so you have to compare apples to apples. Axis lower end is not that expensive, maybe $500 for a 1080P outdoor dome. If it's a big project, say 25 cameras or more, you can get bid pricing from Axis for a more competitive price.

 

Then you have the issue of service and support. I know I can call Axis, Bosch, ACTi and get someone to help me with a camera issue and get it replaced if there's a problem. You can justify that you can just buy additional cameras from China to make up for that, but it's an added expense. Or you could buy from Hikvision USA or from a U.S. source with support and warranty, but that would cost more.

[MaxIcon 0]

Thanks. Last question before I forget about cctv and go elsewhere.

 

If you don't care for the input from people who do this kind of work all the time, you do have a few other options:

 

- Buy some different cameras and test them to see the differences for yourself.

- Take the salesman's/marketeer's/website's word on which will fill your needs.

- Put yourself in the hands of a professional and let them take care of it.

 

The first way is the best way, but takes time, work, and money up front. On the upside, you learn quite a lot about cameras doing this, and don't have to rely on other people's advice. This is how most of the users here have learned about cameras, what works, and what doesn't.

 

The second way is something many people do the first time, then never again.

 

The third way is good if you choose your professional well, but you're paying extra for the years of experience they've gathered following the first path. If you choose poorly, you're back on the second path.

[aurmol 0]

Thanks. Last question before I forget about cctv and go elsewhere.

 

If you don't care for the input from people who do this kind of work all the time, you do have a few other options:

 

- Buy some different cameras and test them to see the differences for yourself.

- Take the salesman's/marketeer's/website's word on which will fill your needs.

- Put yourself in the hands of a professional and let them take care of it.

 

The first way is the best way, but takes time, work, and money up front. On the upside, you learn quite a lot about cameras doing this, and don't have to rely on other people's advice. This is how most of the users here have learned about cameras, what works, and what doesn't.

 

The second way is something many people do the first time, then never again.

 

The third way is good if you choose your professional well, but you're paying extra for the years of experience they've gathered following the first path. If you choose poorly, you're back on the second path.

 

99% of installers in my country just install analog cctv and dvr. IP cams are so rarely used that almost all installers haven't directly compared any dahuas with hikvision. They haven't even hold one as I asked many.

 

Also I live near China. And Axis camera replacement will take a month because it has to come from the US.

 

And the one or two Axis camera importers said their Axis cameras are better because the cheap cameras have bad pixels not working. They don't know the meaning of dynamic range, etc. Poor country.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Axis is not a USA company.

http://www.axis.com/corporate/index.htm

 

Axis is a Swedish-based company,

which acts globally via its own offices, representatives and well-developed collaboration with partners.

 

http://www.axis.com/corporate/contact.htm

[aurmol 0]

Axis is not a USA company.

http://www.axis.com/corporate/index.htm

 

Axis is a Swedish-based company,

which acts globally via its own offices, representatives and well-developed collaboration with partners.

 

http://www.axis.com/corporate/contact.htm

 

Before I got my first camera. I talked to the axis resellers/installers. He said china cameras have missing pixels and his axis cameras worth over 10 times have full pixels. I checked. It's not true. If only he said axis has 10 times better low light or DSLR like sensor signal to noise ratio.. maybe I could think twice.

 

Also they sell the axis to government institutions with unlimited budget by bribing the officials (our country just few hours boat ride from China).

 

He also told me they don't sell NVRs.

Anyway. If I can buy a used axis from ebay. Would this run in the dahua or even Hikvision NVRs with full motion detection capability? Or need a computer (or pc based) to run it?

 

Checking Axis website. They don't give sizes of the sensors. Buellwinkle review has it listed at 1/3".. same size as dahua.. but for it to really perform optimum at low light.. it has to be as big as DSLR or about 1 inch sensor.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Also they sell the axis to government institutions with unlimited budget by bribing the officials

 

Yea ok.....

 

Why would a superior product need to bribe over China Junk?

 

 

He also told me they don't sell NVRs.

 

They aren't in the NVR Business. They sell Cameras, Encoders, I/O boxes, and Access Control.

 

Milestone, Genetec, and dozens of others don't sell cameras.

[MaxIcon 0]

The majority of decent IP cams today have 1/3", while the cheapest ones have 1/4" sensors. 1/2" is becoming less common, though is still readily available if you don't mind paying more.

 

1" sensors are awesome and will definitely solve your low light problems, but at a very high cost, both for the camera and the lens. I don't know who makes them these days, as it's a very specialized market, but I'm sure someone does. I doubt you'd get by for less than $5k for a camera/lens combo, but I could be wrong.

 

As for bad pixels, I've never seen one on a new IP camera (admittedly small sample for me, only a dozen or so), but have seen a good number of them on used cameras that have been in service a while. It takes a lot of bad pixels to cause image problems; a few bad pixels won't affect anything on a MP camera.

[buellwinkle 0]

It's not that you pay 10x more for Axis to get 10x better camera. Sometimes you pay a lot more for a little gain but that little gain means more to some than others. For example, you can be very happy driving a lower end Kia or Hyundai car from Korea and you can buy a higher end Mercedes for 10x. Does that mean it's 10x better car, clearly not as you can do the same thing with both, but maybe it's twice as good and that may justify the 10x price differential to some. In the U.S., if I'm an installer buying from a U.S. distributor, say a mini-dome, the Axis equivalent will cost 3X the Hikvision and I feel that there are things the Axis can do like 3-axis adjustment that the Hik can't that may justify the price.

 

In offering a customer a solution, I usually give them 3 tiers of quality and let them decide if paying 1x, 2x, 3x is worth the brand differences.

[mobbarley 0]

The majority of decent IP cams today have 1/3", while the cheapest ones have 1/4" sensors. 1/2" is becoming less common, though is still readily available if you don't mind paying more.

 

1" sensors are awesome and will definitely solve your low light problems

 

....

 

Comparing sensor sizes is kind of misleading as you are forgetting a very key factor - technology.

 

Every year or two sensors become more sensitive, have less noise, have better WDR etc etc. If you are comparing two sensors of similar technology and construction then that is fair, if there is a generation or two gap then it probably isn't. As an example, all of the 4K surveillance cameras hitting the market have very 'first generation' sensors - they look like the 3MP cameras from a few years ago with poor dynamic range and poor low light performance. 4K should mature over the next couple of years and then I'm sure it will be great.

 

If I could give you a 1/4" sensor that had great low light, great WDR etc, would you still choose a 1/2" sensor over it? The 1/4" sensor could mean a smaller camera, smaller (and less expensive) lens, lower power consumption, etc. Why wouldn't you choose it?

 

I guess my point is not to take sensor size too seriously. In fact, don't take datasheet numbers too seriously either - they are just numbers and tell you very little about the image produced. Unfortunately we still have to test cameras to see how well they perform in a variety of circumstances.