Beyond Property Surveillance?

[pax 0]

Hello experts - I've been looking to install a residential security system off and on for over two years now and have been unable to find the right "fit" based on my circumstances. I've come to the realization that the most efficient and practical way to protect the family is if I can have eyes on the property and use analytics to determine and deter threads. I came across this page: http://thesecuritygenius.com/video-surveillance/ and it described pretty well what I would like to accomplish.

 

1. Live surveillance of the property

2. Determine threats (ie. person vs. dog), issue a visual alert (ie. flashing red light), start recording

3. If the threat advances, issue customizable audible warning, email alert

4. If the threat still advances, an audible alarm triggers externally and existing flood lights come on

 

My requirements/wants:

 

1. 5-6 bullet/dome cameras (range 20-30 ft., 4mm lense or higher) will provide property visibility

2. POE day/night cameras

3. Record to NAS/NVR/highend PC

4. Motion/event triggered recording/alerting/alarming

4. Un-monitored on premise solution (no remote access needed)

5. The flood light trigger would be nice to have but not an absolute must have (I can flick those on as I grab a firearm and head towards the door)

 

Has anyone ever come across or built a system like this? I am in the tech industry and think I could piece this together in time now that I have settled on an approach, but don't want to reinvent the wheel if others have done this and a starting point would help me get there faster. Appreciate guidance/thoughts/feedback.

 

Regards, Pax

[need2shave 0]

I have a similar set up on my residence using VideoIQ's Rialto and have provided this same solution to several clients with security concerns. We tie it into a monitoring station so whenever a person steps on the property it triggers the station and our response services. It also has audio & alarm outputs so your requirements should be possible.

http://www.videoiq.com/product/rialto-i4/

[pax 0]

Need2shave, thank you for the response, looks like a good solution, however, per the website the VideoIQ product line is discontinued as of the end of last month. Do you recommend or have experience with any similar products?

[ak357 0]

Need2shave, thank you for the response, looks like a good solution, however, per the website the VideoIQ product line is discontinued as of the end of last month. Do you recommend or have experience with any similar products?

Avigilon.com

http://avigilon.com/products/video-analytics/video-analytics/

[need2shave 0]

Pax, Avigilon bought VideoIQ and the link provided by AK is the solution now.

 

AK357, are the Rialto devices still available via suppliers like Tri-Ed or is that now discontinued? If it is discontinued, can you PM me information on how I can obtain them through Avigilon?

[ak357 0]

Pax, Avigilon bought VideoIQ and the link provided by AK is the solution now.

 

AK357, are the Rialto devices still available via suppliers like Tri-Ed or is that now discontinued? If it is discontinued, can you PM me information on how I can obtain them through Avigilon?

Rialto and Avigilon never been sold by distribution

You can get them only through Avigilon partners

[need2shave 0]

They were available even after the buyout as recently as this past summer. I've contacted Avigilon numerous times trying to learn about becoming a partner in anticipation that the VideoIQ line would eventually be taken out of VideoIQ's distribution channels...I have yet to ever get a call back from Avigilon or receive a straightforward answer.

[thewireguys 3]

They were available even after the buyout as recently as this past summer. I've contacted Avigilon numerous times trying to learn about becoming a partner in anticipation that the VideoIQ line would eventually be taken out of VideoIQ's distribution channels...I have yet to ever get a call back from Avigilon or receive a straightforward answer.

 

You have to become a partner or perchase from partners. Avigilon does not sell though distribution in north america.

 

Also I would recommend the new H3a cameras from Avigilon with the on camera analytics. You only need Raito's if you have third party cameras since everything is now done on camera with everything configured in ACC.

[pax 0]

They were available even after the buyout as recently as this past summer. I've contacted Avigilon numerous times trying to learn about becoming a partner in anticipation that the VideoIQ line would eventually be taken out of VideoIQ's distribution channels...I have yet to ever get a call back from Avigilon or receive a straightforward answer.

 

You have to become a partner or perchase from partners. Avigilon does not sell though distribution in north america.

 

Also I would recommend the new H3a cameras from Avigilon with the on camera analytics. You only need Raito's if you have third party cameras since everything is now done on camera with everything configured in ACC.

 

The 3MP model looks like it would adequate coverage for the property. Few questions (again, pardon my newbie status):

 

1. Are these POE?

2. Is Control Center required for management and live viewing?

3. How would I and what would I interface to for the audible warnings and alarm peice?

4. Can these be self installed with a 4-5 camera system running no more than $5K (or would using 3rd party cameras, ie. Hikvision, with VideoIQ be more cost effective)?

[thewireguys 3]

The 3MP model looks like it would adequate coverage for the property. Few questions (again, pardon my newbie status):

 

1. Are these POE?

YES

2. Is Control Center required for management and live viewing?

You need ACC to record and configure the analytics in the cameras.

3. How would I and what would I interface to for the audible warnings and alarm peice?

You can fire trigger outputs on the cameras to and use devices like this: http://www.elkproducts.com/siren_voice_drivers_and_recordable_modules.html

4. Can these be self installed with a 4-5 camera system running no more than $5K (or would using 3rd party cameras, ie. Hikvision, with VideoIQ be more cost effective)?

Yes

 

 

FYI here is a clip of how the analytics work:

 

WrydyEPf2sc

[pax 0]

The 3MP model looks like it would adequate coverage for the property. Few questions (again, pardon my newbie status):

 

1. Are these POE?

YES

2. Is Control Center required for management and live viewing?

You need ACC to record and configure the analytics in the cameras.

3. How would I and what would I interface to for the audible warnings and alarm peice?

You can fire trigger outputs on the cameras to and use devices like this: http://www.elkproducts.com/siren_voice_drivers_and_recordable_modules.html

4. Can these be self installed with a 4-5 camera system running no more than $5K (or would using 3rd party cameras, ie. Hikvision, with VideoIQ be more cost effective)?

Yes

 

 

FYI here is a clip of how the analytics work:

 

WrydyEPf2sc

 

 

Thanks so much for the insight thewireguys. Googl-ing "avigilon authorized dealer" in Lancaster/York yielded no results. I notice you are up in the Lehigh Valley area, do you happen to know of any reputable, authorized dealers down this way or do you service/ship to this area?

[thewireguys 3]

PM sent

[triski 0]

Hello experts - I've been looking to install a residential security system off and on for over two years now and have been unable to find the right "fit" based on my circumstances. I've come to the realization that the most efficient and practical way to protect the family is if I can have eyes on the property and use analytics to determine and deter threads. I came across this page: http://thesecuritygenius.com/video-surveillance/ and it described pretty well what I would like to accomplish.

 

1. Live surveillance of the property - Live/ Recorded is fine

2. Determine threats (ie. person vs. dog), issue a visual alert (ie. flashing red light), start recording - I would suggest 24/7 recording, Hard drives are cheap these days

3. If the threat advances, issue customizable audible warning, email alert - this is dependant on the analytic type. Cross line detection etc.

4. If the threat still advances, an audible alarm triggers externally and existing flood lights come on - same as above, a good VMS can use rules..

I can suggest some (PM)

 

My requirements/wants:

 

1. 5-6 bullet/dome cameras (range 20-30 ft., 4mm lense or higher) will provide property visibility - use good quality cameras with light finder tech

2. POE day/night cameras - same as above, ensure you cabling will work. Also buy light finding cameras

3. Record to NAS/NVR/highend PC - For the sake of reliability and resiliency I would have a dedicated NVR/NAS/ PC for this, with a RAID configuration, I can recommend good software/ hardware to use. NAS is very expensive, I would go a different way

4. Motion/event triggered recording/alerting/alarming - As above, use 24/7 recording. Hard drives are very cheap

4. Un-monitored on premise solution (no remote access needed) - Its still a possibility if you like

5. The flood light trigger would be nice to have but not an absolute must have (I can flick those on as I grab a firearm and head towards the door), this can be configured via events, rules or alarms. Dependant on the full req

 

Has anyone ever come across or built a system like this? I am in the tech industry and think I could piece this together in time now that I have settled on an approach, but don't want to reinvent the wheel if others have done this and a starting point would help me get there faster. Appreciate guidance/thoughts/feedback.

 

I have built systems with a lot more complexity for govt projects, private, and very very large scale. Cannot discuss online for obvious reasons.

 

Regards, Pax

 

 

hello,

 

Ive been working in the industry for a few years, im a solutions architect and deal with enterprise physical security etc..

Ive worked on large installations.. seem comments against above.

[pax 0]

Hello experts - I've been looking to install a residential security system off and on for over two years now and have been unable to find the right "fit" based on my circumstances. I've come to the realization that the most efficient and practical way to protect the family is if I can have eyes on the property and use analytics to determine and deter threads. I came across this page: http://thesecuritygenius.com/video-surveillance/ and it described pretty well what I would like to accomplish.

 

1. Live surveillance of the property - Live/ Recorded is fine

2. Determine threats (ie. person vs. dog), issue a visual alert (ie. flashing red light), start recording - I would suggest 24/7 recording, Hard drives are cheap these days

3. If the threat advances, issue customizable audible warning, email alert - this is dependant on the analytic type. Cross line detection etc.

4. If the threat still advances, an audible alarm triggers externally and existing flood lights come on - same as above, a good VMS can use rules..

I can suggest some (PM)

 

My requirements/wants:

 

1. 5-6 bullet/dome cameras (range 20-30 ft., 4mm lense or higher) will provide property visibility - use good quality cameras with light finder tech

2. POE day/night cameras - same as above, ensure you cabling will work. Also buy light finding cameras

3. Record to NAS/NVR/highend PC - For the sake of reliability and resiliency I would have a dedicated NVR/NAS/ PC for this, with a RAID configuration, I can recommend good software/ hardware to use. NAS is very expensive, I would go a different way

4. Motion/event triggered recording/alerting/alarming - As above, use 24/7 recording. Hard drives are very cheap

4. Un-monitored on premise solution (no remote access needed) - Its still a possibility if you like

5. The flood light trigger would be nice to have but not an absolute must have (I can flick those on as I grab a firearm and head towards the door), this can be configured via events, rules or alarms. Dependant on the full req

 

Has anyone ever come across or built a system like this? I am in the tech industry and think I could piece this together in time now that I have settled on an approach, but don't want to reinvent the wheel if others have done this and a starting point would help me get there faster. Appreciate guidance/thoughts/feedback.

 

I have built systems with a lot more complexity for govt projects, private, and very very large scale. Cannot discuss online for obvious reasons.

 

Regards, Pax

 

 

hello,

 

Ive been working in the industry for a few years, im a solutions architect and deal with enterprise physical security etc..

Ive worked on large installations.. seem comments against above.

 

 

Hi triski, appreciate the response and input above. From camera perspective, I was looking at the Avigilon with onboard storage and video analytics with their Control Center software. I have an existing 2TB NAS setup in JBOD (WD Caviar Black HDs but can be set to various flavors of RAID). If a PC is a better approach I have a Corei7/8GB RAM that I could pull out of the closet. For the event triggers I was looking at the Elk products for Recordable Voice and audible alarming. Haven't dug too deep into the automating of flood lights but a crude setup I've considered is Hue IP lightbulbs triggerd by an event from the cameras.

 

Given this is residential though I don't think the requirements are too onerous or would cost more than a few thousand bucks to get up and function (but cheaper in the long run vs. using an ADT like service).

 

Thanks again and appreciate any more guidance and knowledge you can share... being new to the forum I cannot generate PM's yet so if you would rather take this offline feel free to send a PM.

[triski 0]

Hey Pax,

 

Sorry Ive been insanely busy with work.

I understand, avigilon cameras are not cheap.

 

Personally I have a good relationship with Axis so they just gave me a couple cameras.

I used the on board storage locator to access a hard drive (on a 9TB NAS, 4 bay QNAP) and it just records directly to it.

I then use the axis software to watch video.

 

My 2 camera system including the NAS came to £300..

I know i got cams free, but even then it might have been 450.

 

I suggest getting cameras that can see 'network storage'.

 

All the analytic stuff is fancy for no reason, and many of the lower end ones do not work..

e.g theres a partciular facial recognition company that sell their products as a single box solution..

But if you compare it with NEC neoface OR herta facial rec software you see why its soo cheap.

And actually why its soo bad.

 

There are thousands of small installers who can do a lot of 'fancy' analytic nonsense, but I suggest you stick with a good camera manufacturer that can embed certain analytics into the camera.

Bosch and Axis are just a couple, where the software gets loaded into the camera.. and done.

 

I do work with avigilon and they have some really decent cameras, but I do not have the full knowledge of them.

I have not deployed many demanding projects with their hardware.

Recently they have changed business model too, so I am unsure what the result of this will be.

 

Look for a light finder camera

2TB might not be enough storage unless you are only using 7 days or something.

[pax 0]

Hey Pax,

 

Sorry Ive been insanely busy with work.

I understand, avigilon cameras are not cheap.

 

Personally I have a good relationship with Axis so they just gave me a couple cameras.

I used the on board storage locator to access a hard drive (on a 9TB NAS, 4 bay QNAP) and it just records directly to it.

I then use the axis software to watch video.

 

My 2 camera system including the NAS came to £300..

I know i got cams free, but even then it might have been 450.

 

I suggest getting cameras that can see 'network storage'.

 

All the analytic stuff is fancy for no reason, and many of the lower end ones do not work..

e.g theres a partciular facial recognition company that sell their products as a single box solution..

But if you compare it with NEC neoface OR herta facial rec software you see why its soo cheap.

And actually why its soo bad.

 

There are thousands of small installers who can do a lot of 'fancy' analytic nonsense, but I suggest you stick with a good camera manufacturer that can embed certain analytics into the camera.

Bosch and Axis are just a couple, where the software gets loaded into the camera.. and done.

 

I do work with avigilon and they have some really decent cameras, but I do not have the full knowledge of them.

I have not deployed many demanding projects with their hardware.

Recently they have changed business model too, so I am unsure what the result of this will be.

 

Look for a light finder camera

2TB might not be enough storage unless you are only using 7 days or something.

 

 

Thank you for the response Triski. The analytics piece of the equation I was looking at to enable certain actions if a specific event occurs. For that to happen the camera/software needs to be able to distinguish between a person and an animal or vehicle. The "action" portion once an event is triggered would be to start recording, issue an exterior audible warning (ie. "This property is under surveillance") to the intruder, turn on flood lights, or trigger an actual alarm/siren.

 

My ideal example once a camera is set is to establish a virtual perimeter/line in the capture areas and if that line is crossed, start recording and trigger an audible warning... if the intruder continues to advance then turn on the flood lights and sound an audible alarm. This serves the dual purpose of warning the intruder and myself that someone is attempting to gain entry to the property. Even more importantly, it keeps me from having to put wireless window/door sensors up and dealing with batteries/range/all the other headaches of a traditional security system.

 

Hope what I am describing makes sense... if you have other thoughts on how to accomplish this I'd be grateful for advice. I did receive quotes for the Avigilon cameras with built in analytics and they run about $1100 each (not a cheap option!). On the storage side, I wouldn't be keeping more than a 2-3 days of footage and it would all be event based recording (not constant).

 

Thanks in advance.

[need2shave 0]

VideoIQ/Avigilon works...can't speak for other analytics. I have it on my house doing close to what PAX is looking to do. Without analytics, you can forget about advance notice options unless you want a few hundred false alarms a day or want to cover your property in PIRs. 2 x Axis cameras for 150 pounds...on what planet???

[triski 0]

Sorry for the delay in response, been stupidly busy.

 

In short certain better camera manufacturers have built in analytic's.

Motion + (Bosch), Axis have some etc...

 

In short try and get a camera that has this built in.

Any good VMS will 'listen' to that type of analytic and create an event or alarm.

 

As for distinguishing between animal and person, its about sensitivity.

We have something facing the road that distinguishes between vans and cars (I know larger), but the same concept.