Home CCTV advice & NVR Suggestions

[marbar2k 0]

Hi everyone, can I ask for some advice…

 

I am looking to set up a small residential system to cover my house. I ideally want to cover the front and my garage.

 

I looked at getting a system from amazon, but after reading into the quality of 700tvl cameras I decided against it.

 

I am on a bit of a tight budget so keeping costs down is a must. I have ordered a Hikvision DS-2CD2032 from aliexpress to cover the car outside.

 

I have also already got a Samsung 7010p (http://www.samsungsecurity.co.uk/en/products/cameras/dome/fixed%20domes/internal%20cameras/snf-7010.aspx) I was thinking about putting this inside the garage.

I have also got 2 watchbot cameras, not sure if they are much use? I will have the cameras running to an DD-WRT router that will be acting as a bridge to my main sky router.

 

My next challenge is how to record, as previously said I’m on a tight budget. I have been looking at 2 options…

 

An old laptop (i7 processor I think) running Axxon Next or XprotectGo. I’m a newbie to all this so I’m not sure how hard these are to set up or which is the best solution? Or is there better out there? I don’t need to hold video for get lengths of time just a few days.

 

My other option is one of those mini NVR, you can get them on Aliexpress for around £25. What are these like? Is there a brand to avoid and where’s the best place to get them?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

PS do cameras sell well? The Samsung I have is brand new, I might put it in the classifieds to get something more suitable to my needs.

[unix1992 0]

Hi everyone, can I ask for some advice…

 

I am looking to set up a small residential system to cover my house. I ideally want to cover the front and my garage.

 

I looked at getting a system from amazon, but after reading into the quality of 700tvl cameras I decided against it.

 

I am on a bit of a tight budget so keeping costs down is a must. I have ordered a Hikvision DS-2CD2032 from aliexpress to cover the car outside.

 

I have also already got a Samsung 7010p (http://www.samsungsecurity.co.uk/en/products/cameras/dome/fixed%20domes/internal%20cameras/snf-7010.aspx) I was thinking about putting this inside the garage.

I have also got 2 watchbot cameras, not sure if they are much use? I will have the cameras running to an DD-WRT router that will be acting as a bridge to my main sky router.

 

My next challenge is how to record, as previously said I’m on a tight budget. I have been looking at 2 options…

 

An old laptop (i7 processor I think) running Axxon Next or XprotectGo. I’m a newbie to all this so I’m not sure how hard these are to set up or which is the best solution? Or is there better out there? I don’t need to hold video for get lengths of time just a few days.

 

My other option is one of those mini NVR, you can get them on Aliexpress for around £25. What are these like? Is there a brand to avoid and where’s the best place to get them?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

PS do cameras sell well? The Samsung I have is brand new, I might put it in the classifieds to get something more suitable to my needs.

 

Cheapest solution >> use your laptop together with Ispy. Downside is your increased energy bill.

Cheap solution >> Buy mini NVR 2 (60 pound) since, the new model support cameras above 2MP. Motion detection does not work. However, I don't know if the samsung will work on it.

Cheap solution 2 >> Buy mini NVR 1 (25 pound) + 33 pound for each 1MP camera.

Expensive option >> Buy hikvision or Dahua NVR

 

If you don't care about the minor bugs in the Mini NVR (2) and don't care about 100% uptime, buy the mini nvr.

[marbar2k 0]

 

Cheapest solution >> use your laptop together with Ispy. Downside is your increased energy bill.

Cheap solution >> Buy mini NVR 2 (60 pound) since, the new model support cameras above 2MP. Motion detection does not work. However, I don't know if the samsung will work on it.

Cheap solution 2 >> Buy mini NVR 1 (25 pound) + 33 pound for each 1MP camera.

Expensive option >> Buy hikvision or Dahua NVR

 

If you don't care about the minor bugs in the Mini NVR (2) and don't care about 100% uptime, buy the mini nvr.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Ive read that ispy isnt the way to go now as they have started charging for some elements?

 

So with a NVR1 would i not be able to record at the full quality? Whats the £33 a camera? is that to add more channels?

 

Where is the best place to get a NVR2? what are they called?

 

Sorry for all the questions

[unix1992 0]

Just look for some footage/reviews on youtube for the 'mini NVR' or look at the corresponding topic. You can buy cheap 720p cameras at the cost of 33 pound on Aliexpress. Don't expect much quality but for observating it will be sufficient.

 

Most of these NVR's or camera's you can buy at Aliexpress (please be aware you may have to pay VAT or duties).

[dalepres 0]

Unix1992, I've really enjoyed reading a bunch of your posts here today. But I have to say that building a security system without trying for 100 per cent uptime doesn't make sense. We won't always get it - in fact we'll never achieve it - but it is always the goal.

 

I do agree about buying from aliexpress if the OP is going to do a do-it-yourself system. I've had great results ordering 75 dollar to 125 dollar cameras from Aliexpress. Just watch the ratings and you should be fine - at least I watched the ratings and I have been fine. I've been buying from a seller named Aote. I've also bought cameras from Amazon and other China-based operations shipping from the US and have generally had great results.

 

For the OP, you might consider buying two new cameras of the same brand. Most cameras, whether Dahua, Hikvision, or other, will come with NVR software you could run on your old laptop. The software provided by the camera manufacturer will be more efficient than general purpose ONVIF software and may very well run fine on an old laptop with two or three cameras.

 

Using UC software with cameras that support it I can record 3 cameras on my old Core-2 Duo computer at about 25% CPU utilization. If the Dahua software is as efficient then you may only need to buy another camera and you're good to go for a basic system.

 

Over time, think about redundancy, backup power, Internet or FTP file storage, etc. but your laptop and a couple of like-branded cameras running on the factory software should be OK.

[unix1992 0]

Unix1992, I've really enjoyed reading a bunch of your posts here today. But I have to say that building a security system without trying for 100 per cent uptime doesn't make sense. We won't always get it - in fact we'll never achieve it - but it is always the goal.

 

I do agree about buying from aliexpress if the OP is going to do a do-it-yourself system. I've had great results ordering 75 dollar to 125 dollar cameras from Aliexpress. Just watch the ratings and you should be fine - at least I watched the ratings and I have been fine. I've been buying from a seller named Aote. I've also bought cameras from Amazon and other China-based operations shipping from the US and have generally had great results.

 

For the OP, you might consider buying two new cameras of the same brand. Most cameras, whether Dahua, Hikvision, or other, will come with NVR software you could run on your old laptop. The software provided by the camera manufacturer will be more efficient than general purpose ONVIF software and may very well run fine on an old laptop with two or three cameras.

 

Using UC software with cameras that support it I can record 3 cameras on my old Core-2 Duo computer at about 25% CPU utilization. If the Dahua software is as efficient then you may only need to buy another camera and you're good to go for a basic system.

 

Over time, think about redundancy, backup power, Internet or FTP file storage, etc. but your laptop and a couple of like-branded cameras running on the factory software should be OK.

 

Of course, it's always better to try to achieve 100% uptime. And in some cases some persons/security companies will achieve that number, but taking the costs versus uptime in consideration some residents may be happy with 80 to 90% uptime. Business, people with high value stuff, people lacking the right knowledge, people who are having the money to outsource the security happening are always recommended to go first a security company since they are missing in most cases the 'I want to learn something new' factor or are limited due to some circumstances (not able to climb an the stairs, scared to make mistakes and businesses are in most cases better off outsourcing it since the time they spend is more expensive than outsourcing it or any other reason).

 

I think it's always nice that people educate themselves so they will achieve a higher self confidence and that they will less ask help from others. In some cases people are improving and try things by themselves. In other cases people are asking for advice and then I'm wiling to give an advice. Due to that I'm living in Europe, I don't know which stores are reliable on the USA so that's why I recommend to look on Amazon (since almost everyone knows amazon right?). Luckily, tomcctv have shown me that there are downsides on Amazon and that swann sold on Costco is a better shop to buy the equipment from. Buying from aliexpress is only recommended when you know that you have to purchase the product which is sold the most.

 

People who are looking for advice on this forum are asking for knowledge so they have a better view of the 'modern' technology. Just like goodolick , he first thought that analog was the big deal but after being on this forum he now knows that he should better spend the money on a IP system. If people are never educating themselves they will end inmost cases with an analog system (well it's not that really bad but you must know the purpose of the camera when selecting the right equipment). Furthermore some people are just having small budgets and spending 600 dollar from the budgeted 1000 can be used for other stuff when self installing.

 

Well I think it's a battle here between the people who are working in the professional environment and the ones who are more from the 'normal knowledge' people. Since there are some complaints (looking at the discussion about the rising popularity of hikvision and dahua compared to the old reliable brands from 10 years ago) here that people with lacking knowledge are flooding the forums here with simple questions (you always have that problem). Well I don't know how the situation in the USA is, but here people (the average resident who are young) are more purchasing self-installation kits to get something done, since it's a lot cheaper compared to asking a specialist. The older people and businesses are most of the outsourcing these activities.

 

If I look at the discussion about the mini nvr, some 'forum members' are responding, if I say it simple, not nice to the topic starter... And telling that configuring or forwarding ports is like 'hell'. But the opposite is true, when you do have the knowledge about port forwarding and read the manual it's simple (knowing that you need 4 ports instead of 2). Well it can't be denied that the system works, well it has some limitations but it works.

 

I think time changes, in the early days people are scared breaking things and ask specialists for help. I know that I was scared in 2000 for reinstalling Windows, that viruses are the evil things on the Internet and that opening the computer case was almost a crime. So we always asked other people to look at it for a lot of money... Nowadays due to the openness of the Internet my knowledge has grown, modern technology has luckily some 'idiot prove' methods implemented and things are more standardized (parallel ports, serial ports, rs3212 ports to usb) so people are making less mistakes. Compare the time when you had to work in dos with your keyboard an now you can use a mouse to navigate on the screen.

 

And sometimes people are just exaggerating... Well this was on a other forum, but there some people that were recommending to install 3mp poe dahua with a Dahua POE Nvr (3 cameras were needed) to observe only cowsheds, while the TS reported that he was on very tight budget and that the image quality is not that important. So cheapest solution was to buy a 8 channel self-installation kit from 140 euro including 4 600tvl cameras and the dvr. Luckily, warranty in Europe is better developed than the USA asking for minimal 2 years from the seller (so the seller is responsible for the warranty and not the manufacturer).

[marbar2k 0]

Interesting replies chaps. I suppose from my point of view I don't really need CCTV but i enjoy researching and learning some new skills ( and its something to play with)

 

My budget is tight so my whole mantra is get the best system as I can for as few £ as possible. I know this will never be a commercial system but like I said I don't need that. I've had good fun so far setting up my wireless bridge from an old router that was dumped in a cupboard.

 

My camera has all been dispatched so its a waiting game now.

 

On my NVR situation i've been looking at some alternate. either a QNAP NAS (http://www.ebuyer.com/501196-qnap-ts-120-1-bay-desktop-nas-enclosure-ts-120?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&gclid=CjwKEAiA9KymBRD6g6iOvv2joU0SJAB0vRQyUyzxhpNiPEzM2HSikguXbOn4G0LamAJWEPmSj1pSxxoC0nnw_wcB) or a Raspberry PI set up as a NAS. Again i know they are not professional solutions but they should serve my needs.

 

Anyone tried either of these solutions?

[goodolick 0]

Thanks for the honorable mention Unix....

What really happened with my CCTV experience is I just plain did not do the research. I decided that I wanted CCTV, hopped on Amazon, and ordered what I thought was a great deal. The product received great ratings, so I just assumed it to be good. After getting my "all in one box" solution, I still did not do the research on IP cameras, at that point I knew I had an analog system, so when it came time to start adding new cameras, I just researched the analog ones that would be compatible with my system. After having several visitors to my house, including a roofing crew, I decided that my analog system was going to do what I wanted, which is catching the people that have been breaking into my cars and egging my house. In that regard, it has in fact served as a great deterrent, as I have not had a single problem with theft or vandalism since I installed my cameras. But, the last thing that I want to happen is to actually have something go down, and not be able to identify, I feel like that would be the case with my analog system. So I turned here for advise. Marbar2k's decision to fully research his setup puts him one step ahead of me in the game.

 

In that regards, I do have some input for Marbar2k. I think you should do as Unix suggested, and just get a couple cameras to start with and just run them on your laptop until you can afford to buy a NVR that matches your brand of cameras. Everything that I have read on this forum has told me that is the way to go. A Hik might work fine for images on a Dahua NVR, but the motion detection is lacking. That being said, I dont think using a raspberry pi solution would be a great investment. You can get a good Dahua 8 ch NVR for right about $250 USD, it might be beneficial to save for that. One other key thing that I have learned on my CCTV journey, is that you probably think you need less cameras than you really do. I started with an 8 channel system that came with 4 cameras, when I ordered it, I figured 4 would be plenty. I have now maxed out my DVR to 8 cameras, and still do not feel like I have proper coverage, so as I make my leap to a digital system, I am going with a 16 channel NVR. I will have somewhere between 12-16 cameras by the time I am am fully satisfied, keep in mind, I started off thinking 4 was plenty to do the job.

 

 

Hope this helps

[unix1992 0]

Well you started here around the same time as me, so that's why I was mentioning your name. No hard feelings, I hope, otherwise I'm sorry.

 

Well the Qnap will probably work assuming it will work with Onvif cameras, be aware that the free license only includes two cameras and that you need to buy a license for more cameras. I would go to a brick and mortar shop and ask the employee there how the surveillance station works and ask if the hikvision and samsung is compatible with the NAS. Ask the employee that in case that is does not work that you can return the items.

 

Well it's depends whether you want to record 24/7/365 or only snapshots? When you want to record all the day, you should consider to take a nvr or in case that you want at most two cameras then the Qnap will be sufficient. If you only want to record at motion, you can record a clip or only take snapshots of the screen. In the first case, it would be the same as continous recording assuming that the motion detection will work. In the other case (taking snapshots) you will only need a FTP server, where you can upload the pictures/snapshots on. But on some cameras you can let it send a email with an attachment of screen when motion is detected. In case of a FTP server, you can use a Qnap or a raspberry Pi or any other FTP service/server.

 

So the question, what do you want to do with your cameras? Recording full time, recording at motion, taking snapshots? And what are your future plans? Do you want to upgrade to eight cameras in the future or are you sticking at two? Personal opinion, if now know that two cameras will be sufficient for the following three years, I would stick with the Qnap, since you can use the NAS for many other things. In the future products hopefully become cheaper or even more reliable.

[goodolick 0]

Not a single bit of hard feelings. I am glad you thought of me.

How could I possibly dislike a guy named Unix1992? After all, I am a linux guy and that is almost Unix

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I dont want to detract from the topic too much.

 

I am learning a lot from the board. I am glad you brought up the PC solution. I was going to buy my DVR first, but, now knowing that I can use the just camera and my computer pretty easily, I am going to get a camera first to evaluate how well it will improve my surveillance needs, that way I can be sure I am making the right choice before I start pouring serious money into my project. I still have a lot of concerns about even a 3 MP Dahua having a resolution good enough to identify faces as far out as I want. Odds are I will end up with a PTZ before I am done.

[dalepres 0]

I haven't used the QNAP system though it was on my wishlist for a long time. I ended up with a Synology to do the same thing. My reasoning for the first Synology (or QNAP had I purchased that instead) was to use it as iSCSI from my PC so that the PC can record using whatever software I choose but I can put the storage remote from the PC. If a burglar comes in, they'll likely take the PC; I don't want them to take the video of them taking the PC along with them.

 

I have a second Synology that I use with Synology's Surveillance Station software and it does pretty well for motion detection while the first Synology records 24/7. All of my cameras are recorded on at least two different NVRs and those NVRs are not in the same part of the house as each other or the camera.

 

I've been idle on this forum for a while but I was researching mini-NVRs and that research brought me back here to the very awesome 39-page (as of now) mini-NVR thread. As I install clusters of 2 to 3 cameras further from the main living areas on the properties, such as backyard house corners, outbuildings, poles in the yard, I want to bring just one Ethernet cable to any of these camera clusters rather than a cable per camera - because camera counts change and then you find you need more cable than you ran.

 

I am setting up local ethernet switches with a mini-NVR at each camera cluster. That NVR will record the cluster and record at least one or more cameras from another cluster.

 

For DYI, I don't suggest buying anyone's "kit" system. They generally come with low-quality cameras and wide angle lenses - 4MM or wider. A good surveillance system will have more close up lenses on choke points and entry points. Since you know a burglar must pass a certain point, that is the place where you want to get a closeup of the face. Use a more narrow lens. Kits don't account for this. Even if you choose to single-source from Dahua consider buying one piece at a time rather than a kit so you can customize your system to your own needs.

 

My system looks funny with so many different camera styles in it so far, and probably even more strange looking ones to come, but each camera was chosen to best fit the requirements where it is used. And I love shopping on Aliexpress looking at all the different camera housing styles you can buy.

[dalepres 0]

I still have a lot of concerns about even a 3 MP Dahua having a resolution good enough to identify faces as far out as I want. Odds are I will end up with a PTZ before I am done.

 

Recognizing faces far away isn't going to be about megapixels as much as it is going to be about lenses. Actually, it will be a pricing balance between the two. If money is no object, and I mean Bill Gates kind of no-object, you can do it with megapixels: http://www.wired.com/2012/06/gigapixel-camera/

 

For the rest of us, there are a lot of 2 to 3 MP PTZ cameras with 20 to 30X zoom for 500 to 2000 dollars. But you mentioned needing to recognize faces at a distance but you didn't say that there are multiple places where you need that recognition. There is the option of using a box camera in an outdoor housing and a c-mount zoom lens. This could save you money.

[unix1992 0]

I haven't used the QNAP system though it was on my wishlist for a long time. I ended up with a Synology to do the same thing. My reasoning for the first Synology (or QNAP had I purchased that instead) was to use it as iSCSI from my PC so that the PC can record using whatever software I choose but I can put the storage remote from the PC. If a burglar comes in, they'll likely take the PC; I don't want them to take the video of them taking the PC along with them.

 

I have a second Synology that I use with Synology's Surveillance Station software and it does pretty well for motion detection while the first Synology records 24/7. All of my cameras are recorded on at least two different NVRs and those NVRs are not in the same part of the house as each other or the camera.

 

I've been idle on this forum for a while but I was researching mini-NVRs and that research brought me back here to the very awesome 39-page (as of now) mini-NVR thread. As I install clusters of 2 to 3 cameras further from the main living areas on the properties, such as backyard house corners, outbuildings, poles in the yard, I want to bring just one Ethernet cable to any of these camera clusters rather than a cable per camera - because camera counts change and then you find you need more cable than you ran.

 

I am setting up local ethernet switches with a mini-NVR at each camera cluster. That NVR will record the cluster and record at least one or more cameras from another cluster.

 

For DYI, I don't suggest buying anyone's "kit" system. They generally come with low-quality cameras and wide angle lenses - 4MM or wider. A good surveillance system will have more close up lenses on choke points and entry points. Since you know a burglar must pass a certain point, that is the place where you want to get a closeup of the face. Use a more narrow lens. Kits don't account for this. Even if you choose to single-source from Dahua consider buying one piece at a time rather than a kit so you can customize your system to your own needs.

 

My system looks funny with so many different camera styles in it so far, and probably even more strange looking ones to come, but each camera was chosen to best fit the requirements where it is used. And I love shopping on Aliexpress looking at all the different camera housing styles you can buy.

 

Offtopic: Could you please put a review of your cameras in an other topic (maybe the 'unknown brands camera review'? I am interested which cameras you bought and what the quality of the picture looks like. Well there is a general topic, but it would be nice to have something for lesser 'known' brands. Well, most of the time the quality depends on the sensor which is used.

 

Well the benefit of buying a kit is, that you don't have to buy the video/power cables (most of the time 18 meters are included) or a power supply, since these cost eventually a lot. You can always switch a 4mm lens camera for a 6mm lens or add a 6mm lens to your setup. Further, you can use the 4mm lens supplied as an 'overal' overview of the garden/room. But I recommend that you buy a kit wich contains at least a 960H DVR, otherwise upgrading one of the supplied cameras is almost useless.

[MrBoppityHead 0]

Hi All,

 

I know this is an old thread but I've just come across so thought I'd reply as I'm currently doing the same! I'm very confident with Analogue systems, especially the likes of Cathexis and American Dynamics etc although I've never tried IP.

 

I wanted to install CCTV at home although couldn't justify spending too much (partly as my partner wouldn't approve!), I had a spare AMD Windows 8 laptop that I installed iSpy on and purchased a D-Link 5020L and a DB Power PTZ.

 

The D-Link is hopeless and failed after a week, the DB Power however is frankly perfect. Like a lot of Chinese cameras I've seen, it tends to lose Wi-Fi but Ethernet is an easy fix for that.

 

I can successfully view remotely, and have ordered some additional cameras for the rear and sides of the property respectively. My only gripe is that I personally don't think the AMD E1 is robust enough to handle it, but it's doing okay.

 

I'm in the process of installing an Escam 720P camera, I've found it pixelates on the highest setting although is fine on the lower resolutions. Has anyone experienced similar and any suggestions?

 

I'm currently using a TalkTalk Super Hub and Cat6 cabling, although have ordered a HP Procurve network switch which I'm hoping will relieve some of the strain from the router as currently everything connects directly to that.

[eadysamual 0]

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