Canon plans to purchase Axis

[thewireguys 3]

Canon already purchased Milestone and now they want Axis.

 

Last week Panasonic purchased Video Insite.

 

The whole industry just changed.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-10/canon-to-buy-sweden-s-axis-communications-for-2-8-billion

[riri7707 0]

Yep,

This is how the world works.

FYI, Axis was the 1st Worldwide company to build IP cams and most robust in the market.

To maintain that, they provide 2/3 new models each quarter for specific needs and market branches as retail/Banking etc, but the sales goes down actually

Usually, they employed people very often these last years and now, they stopped getting new employee.

However, face to manufacturers like Hikvision/Dahua who growing and getting parts and parts of the market, this is sure at end only few manufacturers will share the cake of video surveillance.

 

Future is yet here and don't be surprise to see some big manufacturers bought by biggest company.

I have a good friend working at Axis as Sales position, and you cannot image the pressure they have to always make more and more and always more sales. So from my point of view, if CANON arrived now since 2 years in video CCTV, it's not something strange.

And if Axis Head Quarters decided to sell, it's not so strange than that at all, this is the right moment.

 

Canon acquired yet Milestone these last years. So they have yet the management SW solution. Messing now for them to have the terminals: cams production to complete their CCTV solution.

 

By other way, Hik opened a new office in EMEA and their sales are growing month after month, simply because the pricing is quite ridiculous low and the functions and quality really here with middle and high range products.

 

I'm quite sure Hik will be also one of the most worldwide Company in the next years.

Money, always money

Apologise for my English:not perfect

[thewireguys 3]

We can only spiculate that Axis wanted to sell. Based on the offer that Canon has on the table this is one of those offers that is very hard to turn down. I also think this is a smart move for Canon as Milestone and Axis's headquarters is/was only 50 miles apart.

 

As for Hikvision and Dahua. The jury is still out for me. Image quality is good and they seem to be reliable but no one has been able to prove that there cameras and DVR/NVRs are secure and don't have any back door access. I am spoken with many people that feel the same way.

[riri7707 0]

Agree with comments about HIK.

For me they have 2 lines produts :

retail (cheap and direct trash if it fails after xx month/ series 2)

and Pro Series.

But for security, the best option today is not use standalone NVrs but SW only with a real server rear like Dell, the most commun and used today.

 

Just for info, today you can reach more than 700 recorded streams/channels in only 1 server. and secure it using N+1/failover, etc... There is no really limits, only throughput/bandwith limitation on server and CPU power, and each year these limits are pushed over and over (thanks for us).

 

This is what makes the difference with Embedded hardware proprietary NVRs vs SW only.

Most of the company provide today a new release every 3/4 months to be on top 10.

Best manufacturers works today on SW Only NVR/VMS solutions with Stream encryption, watermark,etc, to secure the most as possibile the LAN and streams access.... But this have a cost and not accessible to common customers. Today the biggest ones are : NICE/MILESTONE/GENETEC/INDOGOVISION/AVIGILON, etc....

These ones pushes SW only and that makes really the difference with Professional options accurated and improved.

I Worked in my last life for some of them during last years

So from my point of view : HIK= only usefull for cams today, that's it..

This is an enough young company in the market, but they have the knoledge and provided finished SW products with Onvif really compliance, easy to install and used. OK, Onvif is too Young too and a lot of manufacturers fight with it, but this is the future who really opens the cams to compliance worlds placing RTSP as hasbeen solution

 

Axis never went to SW VMS prioritizing cams only. Event if they work with access control since few months.

So today difficult to be efficient both sides : cams and management/NVR/VMS.

Those who have both, are not efficient on both sides. These allow integrators to choose on side the cams and other side the NVRs and management and replace easily one or other part of the solution during the live of a site/client.

For NVRs, I do no recommend generally proprietary hardware but more SW PC based solutions.

[buellwinkle 0]

Of course these cameras have back doors and to think Axis does not is naïve. Heck, one of the first news I've seen on cameras being easily compromised was with Axis, about 5 years back, one reason we decided on Mobotix at the time.

 

But Axis as well as others are feeling the pain of China. Not going to argue which camera is better, but many consider Dahua & Hikvision "good enough" and comparing cameras that cost 1/4th of what the comparable Axis product costs has to be impacting them. They are smart to have cashed out. Also consider that most Axis cameras are made in Asia or hecho in Mexico anyway.

 

Just look at what staple of the business costs, a varifocal motorized lens, full featured 1080P or 3MP vandal dome. From Axis like their P3365-VE runs about a $1,000 to the new Dahua's for $200. Sure, Axis will give you great support, but hard to ignore the numbers.

[riri7707 0]

Hi buellwinkle ,

 

You wrote the right world who resumes all : Chineese cams are "good enough" for what a Customer expects.

This is the main point.

Today, Customer request changes.

Before it was : I need a solution for my security issues, can you make a study and let me know?...

Today it's more : for 100 k€ what can you provide?, but take in mind your competitor told me more around 90k€ and you, can you made it cheaper...

 

Arghhh. What crazy world.. Personnally it affects me directly as I'm unemployed since one month (last arrived, first fired) as per investment brainstorming review from Headquarters. Just because they always want to win more and more money and grow profits. And it's a manufacturer, not an integrator...

Edited February 10, 2015 by Guest

[thewireguys 3]

Of course these cameras have back doors and to think Axis does not is naïve. Heck, one of the first news I've seen on cameras being easily compromised was with Axis, about 5 years back, one reason we decided on Mobotix at the time.

 

But Axis as well as others are feeling the pain of China. Not going to argue which camera is better, but many consider Dahua & Hikvision "good enough" and comparing cameras that cost 1/4th of what the comparable Axis product costs has to be impacting them. They are smart to have cashed out. Also consider that most Axis cameras are made in Asia or hecho in Mexico anyway.

 

Just look at what staple of the business costs, a varifocal motorized lens, full featured 1080P or 3MP vandal dome. From Axis like their P3365-VE runs about a $1,000 to the new Dahua's for $200. Sure, Axis will give you great support, but hard to ignore the numbers.

 

 

I have some very large customers were support is most important to them. I have shown them Hik and they said thanks but were not interested.

 

We also discovered a major bug in Hikvisions cameras where some cameras have the same unique identifier as others. This is major problem when you connect 2 of them on the same VMS.

 

Not to mention I am not interesting is promoting the "race to the bottom" which Hikvision/Dahua have no problem making happen.

 

Good think is Hikvision/Dahua suck developing user friendly software and the market is now switching to end to end solutions. Soon there will not be any independent.

 

Lastly I would also defend Hikvsion/Dahua if I had a review site that refers people to a sister e-commerce site that I secretly own.

[tomcctv 190]

It's not just about support .

 

You only have to look back over 2 months on this forum .... It's not doing hikvision much good 80% of problems are support ...... Can't connect ...... Wrong region ........ No support .

 

Hikvisions new none or don't buy from list for this month has two companies from this site added to it

 

Wrightwood is alway talked on here about suppliers. It's not.

 

 

We are seeing more and more. Installers of hikvision not going back to there customers ...... Because either they did it cheap from China or replacment camera would be there cost because they bought cheap and can't return. ...... It's not worth saving $20 a camera.

 

 

Is it cost ........ Every other post is hikvision (yes they are good cameras) but only if bought from the right place.

 

Then you have the likes of axis ..avigilon... Avermedia....CNB ..... When was the last post of one having problems.

 

 

Thewireguy is right ........ There are going to be some big changes ...not only with axis but blue iris is also going with big face lift.

 

Avigilon will have the biggest say within two years when it's a commercial grade being sold by other companies

[Don Stephens 0]

Avigilon will have the biggest say within two years when it's a commercial grade being sold by other companies

 

This is the most confusing part of Avigilon for me. They've taken this elitist approach to selling their product line, which I have no problem with, but I don't see how it leaves them room to expand. Their marketing campaign was successful enough for people to hear about them and want what they're selling, but people are starting to get frustrated with not being able to get the product in their hands.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Avigilon will have the biggest say within two years when it's a commercial grade being sold by other companies

 

This is the most confusing part of Avigilon for me. They've taken this elitist approach to selling their product line, which I have no problem with, but I don't see how it leaves them room to expand. Their marketing campaign was successful enough for people to hear about them and want what they're selling, but people are starting to get frustrated with not being able to get the product in their hands.

 

 

Not a problem for Partners.

 

It would scare you how much Avigilon we do a month.

[ak357 0]

 

It would scare you how much Avigilon we do a month.

+1

also

Does Avigilon really want to deal with CCTV Forum type customers

Obviously not ( nothing personal )

[Boogieman 1]

 

It would scare you how much Avigilon we do a month.

+1

also

Does Avigilon really want to deal with CCTV Forum type customers

Obviously not ( nothing personal )

Thats the thing.."forum types" dont want to deal with avigilon either...we are content with 90 dollar cams...for the time being at least..they work great and have a very low failure rate....even the "high end" cameras fail. They dont want to pay 500-1000 per camera or a licensing fee..there is a market for everyone...most of the hikvision issues on the forum of newbies who dont properly update firmware or writing direct to nas...otherwise they run great...hook these puppies up to an pc nvr running blue iris and you have a great system on the cheap...that's what most "forum types" are looking for..value...there is no value for the average home/small business user in a 500 dollar axis camera unless they are totally inept and need hand holding...

[ak357 0]

Thats the thing.."forum types" dont want to deal with avigilon either...we are content with 90 dollar cams...for the time being at least..they work great and have a very low failure rate....even the "high end" cameras fail. They dont want to pay 500-1000 per camera or a licensing fee..there is a market for everyone...most of the hikvision issues on the forum of newbies who dont properly update firmware or writing direct to nas...otherwise they run great...hook these puppies up to an pc nvr running blue iris and you have a great system on the cheap...that's what most "forum types" are looking for..value...there is no value for the average home/small business user in a 500 dollar axis camera unless they are totally inept and need hand holding...

U right Boogieman

but on another hand u have no idea how many cctv forum members buying Avigilon

I do

[buellwinkle 0]

Hikvision USA does not allow resellers. If you try and resell their product you'll get a call and be asked to stop. So to say a reseller is not authorized, that's true, none are. If you are an installer or have a store selling cameras, would you want to sell something you have to support and warranty yourself or sell Axis where they handle support and service? I can't image a reseller wants to sell Dahua or Hikvision and absorb that risk, they do so because the market demands it.

 

But that really has nothing to do with the discussion. The fact remains you can get decent quality cameras from China for a fraction of the price of establish European manufacturers like Axis, Bosch, Mobotix that's competitive and that's disrupting the market for the high end. I talk to distributors that say they want to only sell $1,000+ Axis. Mobotix or Bosch cameras, but most of their sales have gone downstream.

 

What I see happening is not so much the European manufacturers that have establish brand loyalty as there are people willing to pay for quality, otherwise Mercedes, Audi and BMW would be broke. I see the China market affecting the Taiwan market even more because these have been traditional lower cost alternatives to European brands and now there's an even lower cost alternative.

[riri7707 0]

Going back to Axis discussion.

Today the 50% parts of the company are in family builders of Axis. So 3 people only, the other 50% parts where shared through a lot of people. Now, imagine these 3 Creator of Axis who are more than 50s years today. So, how can you refuse to get 500 millions Euros cash each to enjoy and profits for their last days. I think is more than enough and immediate effect.

A dream. So this is now quite sure, they probably accepted, so now is quite official. Just some weeks or months to formalize that, but decision was yet taken.

But if you take a look, Milestone acts today as independant company event if they are CANON officially. Will be the same for Axis. Only results and benefits will be looked by Canon internally, but Axis will continue as Axis today.

[need2shave 0]

We've been primarily installing Hikvision and Dahua on most installs for years. We don't purchase from Alibaba but rather from a reseller who can't be mentioned on the forum. I've had zero issues receiving tech support. Anytime one arose, we'd reach out to the reseller versus Hik or Dahua and they could either fix the issue or would replace the item, no problem. If you go the Hik or Dahua route, make sure you choose the right seller since they will likely be your only tech support option.

 

We've also done a fair amount of installs with VideoIQ, and were interested in Avigilon given the buy out. Luckily I found a partner that we can reach out too but my dealings with trying to reach Avigilon directly was anything but convenient. I can't imagine I'm alone in this experience, which makes me wonder how much more effective the Avigilon marketing campaign would have been if they made their line more available to mid-size installers and integrators. For me to buy a Rialto from a partner, the cost has increased over $500 from when I used to buy VideoIQ direct from a distributor. Avigilon might be great, but I and many others don't know, since one has to have some secret knowledge to receive any straight forward information from the company. Sure we can buy from a partner, but then we're already priced out of the bid...so why bother???

[ssmith10pn 0]

We've been primarily installing Hikvision and Dahua on most installs for years. We don't purchase from Alibaba but rather from a reseller who can't be mentioned on the forum. I've had zero issues receiving tech support. Anytime one arose, we'd reach out to the reseller versus Hik or Dahua and they could either fix the issue or would replace the item, no problem. If you go the Hik or Dahua route, make sure you choose the right seller since they will likely be your only tech support option.

 

We've also done a fair amount of installs with VideoIQ, and were interested in Avigilon given the buy out. Luckily I found a partner that we can reach out too but my dealings with trying to reach Avigilon directly was anything but convenient. I can't imagine I'm alone in this experience, which makes me wonder how much more effective the Avigilon marketing campaign would have been if they made their line more available to mid-size installers and integrators. For me to buy a Rialto from a partner, the cost has increased over $500 from when I used to buy VideoIQ direct from a distributor. Avigilon might be great, but I and many others don't know, since one has to have some secret knowledge to receive any straight forward information from the company. Sure we can buy from a partner, but then we're already priced out of the bid...so why bother???

 

 

Let's look at it this way:

If there is already a Mercedes dealership in your city or near that city are they going to give one to you?

 

 

There are several marketing models and they all work.

Some products go direct, some go through distributors, some use a partner alliance.

Any integrator that has a brick and mortar building they do business out of and a staff of more than one person and there isn't another Avigilon partner down the street will have no issues becoming a partner.

 

How would you feel if you ran a business that employed a staff of 40+ and had a overhead that would choke a horse and Avigilon gave a partnership to your competitor that works out of his truck?

 

I'll bet all of these guys are Avigilon Partners.

http://www.security-net.com/locations/

[riri7707 0]

One experience with this Canadian manufacturer: they don't have really an honnest working line/way.

If you are distributor, they will go around to reach directly your Customers and make direct deal using one installer.

So very difficult to trust as distributor, not be sure at all your customers will be safe with this kind of working way.

If you are an installer/integrator, they need you as they don't install directly but be sure, you will not be the only one online. So as result : pricing problems.

 

I had a lot of feedback from some distributors who tried to work with

[ssmith10pn 0]

One experience with this Canadian manufacturer: they don't have really an honnest working line/way.

If you are distributor, they will go around to reach directly your Customers and make direct deal using one installer.

So very difficult to trust as distributor, not be sure at all your customers will be safe with this kind of working way.

If you are an installer/integrator, they need you as they don't install directly but be sure, you will not be the only one online. So as result : pricing problems.

 

I had a lot of feedback from some distributors who tried to work with

 

 

Your English is hard to follow but again they don't have distributors.

[ak357 0]

One experience with this Canadian manufacturer: they don't have really an honnest working line/way.

If you are distributor, they will go around to reach directly your Customers and make direct deal using one installer.

So very difficult to trust as distributor, not be sure at all your customers will be safe with this kind of working way.

If you are an installer/integrator, they need you as they don't install directly but be sure, you will not be the only one online. So as result : pricing problems.

 

I had a lot of feedback from some distributors who tried to work with

 

 

"One experience with this Canadian manufacturer: they don't have really an honnest working line/way."

 

Which one ?

Name please

[Don Stephens 0]

I've seen a few things in the past about Avigilon not being 100% transparent when it comes to their marketing, but from what I've seen and read, they're no more evil than any other company out there advertising something.

 

I've certainly never heard anything about them not having a "working line".

 

Re-sellers have had their feelings hurt because Avigilon has taken a different approach to selling their products. It guarantees that their product line keeps a good reputation because they try to only do business with people who have a clue what they're doing. I can't blame them for not trusting re-sellers and distributors.

[tomcctv 190]

Re-sellers have had their feelings hurt because Avigilon has taken a different approach to selling their products.

 

its not a different approach...... its a secure approach. which years ago all manufacturers did.

 

take last month here on the forum ,,,,, someone posted a full months worth or dvr / NVR engineers codes for a full 30 days.

 

so using hikvision in high commercial installs cant be sold as a security system .... its not secure.

 

some installers will only install by what system they know or by price. but you still see cheap china units in commercial or high risk areas.

 

the industry years ago was lead by insurance companies .... as in this system or that system could only be used if the owner wanted insurance.

$500 system with passwords all over google is not the system to protect a bank or jewellers store.

[Securame 0]

This has become one interesting thread

[Hitch 0]

take last month here on the forum ,,,,, someone posted a full months worth or dvr / NVR engineers codes for a full 30 days.

For which manufacturer(s)? Are those backdoor codes or the normal/default?

 

For what it's worth, I have (only?) three cameras installed. They are all Axis. I just installed a fourth this weekend, but I haven't run the networking cable back to the PoE switch yet. My parents wanted to add one at their house and they also picked up an Axis. All but one has been bought via Amazon. If you watch, and are patient, you can get some very good deals. I paid less than $450 for the most recent one - a P3364-VE.

 

I can't stay enough good things about their support. It's fantastic! I hope it continues that way under Canon ownership.

[Don Stephens 0]

take last month here on the forum ,,,,, someone posted a full months worth or dvr / NVR engineers codes for a full 30 days.

For which manufacturer(s)? Are those backdoor codes or the normal/default?

 

For what it's worth, I have (only?) three cameras installed. They are all Axis. I just installed a fourth this weekend, but I haven't run the networking cable back to the PoE switch yet. My parents wanted to add one at their house and they also picked up an Axis. All but one has been bought via Amazon. If you watch, and are patient, you can get some very good deals. I paid less than $450 for the most recent one - a P3364-VE.

 

I can't stay enough good things about their support. It's fantastic! I hope it continues that way under Canon ownership.

 

 

I read this earlier: http://www.wsj.com/articles/canon-to-buy-swedens-axis-for-2-8-billion-1423554729

 

From the sounds of it, it will remain fairly segregated. I don't think Canon plans to meddle too much.

 

Also, I wasn't aware that Canon and Axis had an established history.