Large campus like area, any ideas?

[libertysurveillance 0]

We got a call the other day from a governmental housing project. They want some cameras on a very large peice of land with lots of houses.

 

I really have no clue on what to do here, i was thinking of just wifi'ing the whole area up with some nice outdoor AP's and having Geo's CMS linking multiple systems. Putting systems wherever i needed a camera.

 

I got some pictures of the property from google, and local live.

 

 

*use the tennis courts as a reference point*

 

If you look at the first image, the CMS is going to be basically where the pool is in the center image. The first camera of the system (we are going to install more as time moves on, which is why i figured wifi would work cause we can layout the network and add systems as needed) is going to way up on the top left. That house up there is going to have a camera looking at the small building next to it, which is a bus stop.

 

Anyone got any ideas as to if this would work, or maybe even a better setup?

[CMServices 0]

Are the cameras going to be on the builings? Do you have high speed in the buildings where the cameras are going? If so put a Dvr in each building. There is some good muilt location software out there to view all of the dvrs

[rory 0]

Best thing is to find out what their budget is first ... then go from there ..

there are several ways to do it ..

[libertysurveillance 0]

There is no broadband in these buildings they are low income housing. The cameras are going to go next to the entraces of the entire campus. for now. more will be added.

 

As far as their budget ome company had told them 10k per building, and the look on her face when she said that was .. NO WAY. Its a government job, so we have to bid for it. so they wont say the budget.

 

Do you think it would be possible to simply wifi the whole area up turning it into a large wireless network. then using Geovisions CMS software, add a dvr wherever we need cameras and network that to the wireless.

[WirelessEye 0]

Putting wireless access points up would be the most simplistic solution for a sprawling area like the one pictured. I would suggest a centralized roof with a 5-10' mast and 3-4 access points mounted to it.

[rory 0]

I would let a seperate company deal with the WiFi, access points, etc, so any time it goes down its their resposibility.

 

But yeah, here is how you can do it if thats the route you want to go.

Ill use the Acti IP Products as an example here, but could alternatively be Axis or other. Acti has real time D1 though with lowest bandwidth.

 

IDEA #1: Analog -> IP -> DVR

 

Regular Analog Cameras into Acti Video Servers.

 

The Video Servers go into switches then into single or multiple Subscriber units and then wireless to Access Points back to the main central building. Use network switches for all the incoming feeds, as some may be a single feed from an access point coming from multiple subscriber units.

 

Then output from the switches to Acti Video IP Decoders. This converts the IP video back to analog for input into a DVR.

 

 

IDEA #2: Analog -> IP -> NVR

 

Regular Analog Cameras into Acti Video Servers.

 

The Video Servers go into switches then into single or multiple Subscriber units and then wireless to Access Points back to the main central building. Use a network switch for all the incoming feeds.

 

Then output from the switch to a Network Video Recorder such as a slim line PC with some IP software such as MileStone or Lux Riot (Milestone handles up to 64 camera multi views as well).

 

IDEA #3: IP -> IP -> NVR

 

IP Cameras go into switches then into single or multiple Subscriber units and then wireless to Access Points back to the main central building. Use a network switch for all the incoming feeds.

 

Then output from the switch to a Network Video Recorder such as a slim line PC with some IP software such as MileStone or Lux Riot (Milestone handles up to 64 camera multi views as well).

 

IDEA #4: Analog -> Analog -> DVR

 

Standard Analog Cameras go into single Analog Wireless Transmitters such as Trango or Video Comm 5.8Ghz units. These go wireless back to the main central building to a Analog Wireless Receiver for each single Transmitter used.

 

Limitations to this are the 5.8Ghz maxes out depending on which brand you use, you can for example use a combination of both 1.2, 2.4 and 5.8 to reach a max of 16 wireless cameras (example).

 

Con is it is alot of wireless TX's and RX's, and even more expensive than the above ideas.

 

Pros to this are it is real time analog video (non networked).

 

 

IDEA #5: ANALOG - DVR

 

Trench and Run either cat5 with Active Hubs and Recievers (eg. NVT), use transceivers as a type of repeater where it may go over 1.5 miles. Or use Fiber. All go back to the DVR.

 

 

 

Hope this helps ..

 

Rory

[rory 0]

Also should mention you could optionally contact big companies like GE, Pelco, etc, and see what they recommend - not their reps, the actual manufacturer.

 

Then buy from their reps or other distributor though.

 

Dont know how this would/could play into your system but its another idea.

 

[protecvideo 0]

Trenching would be the easiest way to go. We had a company trench a steup very similar to yours. Each camera was approx 1000ft away from the main building where the DVR is located. They left pull string in there and it took only 7 hours to pull CAT-V and power through almost 10,000 ft of underground conduit. Everything was underground with no trace of wires. Out of the groung run EMT up the side of the building or in poles and you're all set.

Poles were about $1200 installed to cement foundation.

Cost was about 7K for them to dig and place conduit for 1000ft.

 

PM me if you want more specifics on what we did.

[libertysurveillance 0]

protectvideo, trenching at this cost would put me out of the bidding, as i have to get it way under 10k per camera.

 

I was thinking of calling a networking company and having them price up how much it would be, but then there goes most of the profit as well. Though letting go some of that profit vs having to battle a wireless network might be the way to go.

 

I'm a run this by the big guy see what he says, thanks for your help everyone.

[scottj 0]

Motorola Canopy IP based wireless would work perfect for your application. Take a look at the ear and specs, wouldn't hurt to contact them and ask they send a field topography engineer out to map the area. This system works, and works well. I think you will find that building a VLAN throughout the area will put your average PPC (price per camera) well below the 10K mark and could secure your foot in on the bid.

 

Scottj

[WirelessEye 0]

You could easily do each wireless camera setup for ~ $3,000 ea.

Motorolla Canopy, while it would work for this purpose, it is not cost effective for your application. Try something a little more suited to your budget, (you'll get the same results).

 

I believe the 3 names that come up the most are:

 

Microtek

Trango

Tranzeo

[scottj 0]

Although I agree at times with staying at the least cost possible in some cases, I have a feeling if the customer is expecting a price range upwards close to 10K per camera, then you may as well use something that will fly you slightly under the radar versus something that will raise questions of whether you can do the job or not. I see bidders that come in so low that they get tossed in the trash just because they are considered a "flyer" versus the majority of the competition. It doesn't always mean that their bids will not work (many would work fine), however it raises concern as to why you would price yourself so much lower than the competition when the deployment dictated a higher average.

It also is all about margins. If they expect to pay close to 10K per camera, then deliver it and make more profit for yourself. After al, you are giving your customer exactly what they want and ask for.

 

Scottj

[WirelessEye 0]

Scott, we've done government bid projects before and they ALWAYS take the lowest bidder. (Unless it's Halliburton )

 

Just because he can do it for $3,000 per setup, doesn't mean he has to charge $3,000. If he bids $6,000 per camera, he has a nice profit margin, and will still be well under anyone else bidding.

[scottj 0]

We have experienced just the opposite, but each area of the US can vary.

As for the wireless gear, I still feel the VLAN with Motorola is a great option for covering Brockton, MA such as he is trying to accomplish.

 

Scottj

[Thomas 0]

Also keep in mind some states have a "backyard" rule. If the bid is in Texas and an installer is in texas and the other bidder is in CA then the Texas bidder has 5% leeway in the bid (If his bid is within 5% of the lowest bid then he wins.).