Code of Conduct

[Thomas 0]

So there is a growing influx of distrbuters and reps from larger companies. And this is leading to a certain degree of conflict. Right now the forum has a delicate balance between end users, dealers, and manufactuers.

 

So I feel a code of conduct is needed and I want the forums input on it. Before all comments begin, I want to point out a central fact: Advertising is done on the forum via banner ads. I want people to mull that over before posting in this thread. Also note that I will kill thread hijacking in this thread quickly, so keep this one on topic.

[CollinR 0]

I want to point out a central fact: Advertising is done on the forum via banner ads.

 

Thats always the killer, you can't have abuse of it but it hinders the community's flow of information if the users feel they can't link to other websites/forums.

 

Obviously linking back to your own website without a banner ad is a no-no. Thats pretty much universally accepted, people who do it should know better.

 

From my experience from other boards it's really nice to have a manufacturer's rep as a member, I don't think it should be discouraged. They often have key insight that nobody else has access to.

 

I think the balance here is pretty weighted towards dealers/installers but I could be totally wrong. You see an end user from time to time but they make their thread, get their support and move on. The personalities here and active day after day will be what make or break this place.

[Thomas 0]

Yep, it's a hard line to walk. I would perfer not to see reps discussing other peoples products and I would perfer reps to not start "praise" threads. I want there to be a honest discussion but I want to keep the signal to noise ratio high.

 

Frankly I would perfer all of the reps and distrubtiors to treat this as an off duty type of place.

[jisaac 0]

I personally would like to see a room for only people who own or work for a company that is a CCTV. (And also those that integrate with alarms & access). But no manufacturers reps or distributors. But only Service/Installation based companys employees. That way honest discussion and experiences can be shared without anyone trying to defend the product that they sell to dealers and distributors. I personally love and the opinions matter the most to me of those who are installers also. Those who have a direct interest in what information and experience about their product will always post good things about what they sell. Installers talking to installers will give an honest critical opinion if they know that their manufacturer is not going to be able to read what they share and in turn possible hurt their relationship. (that is my opinion. I could be wrong). But I think we should think about the possibility. Any thoughts? Am I way off?

That is why I like the dealer forum alot more than others because you dont have as much of an "audience". You have to really watch what you say. I try to be as honest and critical of things I sell and install. But I wont explain in 100% complete detail because of the fact that manufacturers and end users have full access to what is said.

This is all from my perspective of a Installation/Service company. I can not comment on others seeing as how I am not any other type.

[Securitymaster 0]

I personally would like to see a room for only people who own or work for a company that is a CCTV. (And also those that integrate with alarms & access). But no manufacturers reps or distributors. But only Service/Installation based companys employees. That way honest discussion and experiences can be shared without anyone trying to defend the product that they sell to dealers and distributors. I personally love and the opinions matter the most to me of those who are installers also. Those who have a direct interest in what information and experience about their product will always post good things about what they sell. Installers talking to installers will give an honest critical opinion if they know that their manufacturer is not going to be able to read what they share and in turn possible hurt their relationship. (that is my opinion. I could be wrong). But I think we should think about the possibility. Any thoughts? Am I way off?

That is why I like the dealer forum alot more than others because you dont have as much of an "audience". You have to really watch what you say. I try to be as honest and critical of things I sell and install. But I wont explain in 100% complete detail because of the fact that manufacturers and end users have full access to what is said.

This is all from my perspective of a Installation/Service company. I can not comment on others seeing as how I am not any other type.

 

 

Right on bro!!!!!

[CollinR 0]

But I wont explain in 100% complete detail because of the fact that manufacturers /SNIP/ have full access to what is said.

 

 

Big factor, especially if your online identity is in any way linked to your reality identity.

[jisaac 0]

yep, Its a good thing I have a screen name to hide who I really am....

No really if I speak I only speak the truth. I just wont say something or respond to something if I cant say what is the way I really feel about it.

Thats really one of the pros and cons of not using a screen name.

[rory 0]

That is why I like the dealer forum alot more than others because you dont have as much of an "audience". You have to really watch what you say. I try to be as honest and critical of things I sell and install. But I wont explain in 100% complete detail because of the fact that manufacturers and end users have full access to what is said. This is all from my perspective of a Installation/Service company. I can not comment on others seeing as how I am not any other type.

 

Now, that brings up another good point, the Dealer Forum is there for a reason, I would prefer that Dealers & Installers keep their convos with other dealers and installers in THAT forum .. the public forums are for everybody, and alot of what we talk about dont need to be in the public area.

 

Originally we didnt have to worry about reps, distributors, or manufacturers. Now it has changed, and that is why we are looking at things again.

 

My Personal Opinion is that if you are a dealer, installer, rep, distributor, or manufacturer, if all you come on the forum to do is push your product, that doesnt help the community. Im suggesting that all of the above types of members at least post some help to end users, in the public forums. We can always look at specific Manufacturer Forums and Installer Forums as well.

 

I believe the Classifieds has to go, a hardly ever used Forum, also too much a Yahoo type scene.

 

Product Announcements may have to go. It is basically inviting advertising from manufacturers or reps. It was originally a good idea. It was put there for announcements on new products in the industry. Though it is yet another hardly used forum.

 

Either new or old members dont know what it is there for, or they dont read the forum rules. Either way, its become a playground recently for sales and advertising.

 

PM's and soliciting - I don't like it. I'm not saying anyone does that here at least not over the board, but I'm sure it does or will happen. I'm also not saying it shouldn't be done totally. I think it should only be done if another member shows a true interest in a product. (i just recently turned my PM notification back on BTW)

 

Couple Facts -

 

1) Dealers and Installers provide the majority of support on the forum

 

2) End users are the most helped members on the forum, and the majority of new members. They generally pass through quickly like a dried plum, but they also make the forum what it is.

 

3) Dealers and Installers are the most voiced members on the forum, many being daily if not hourly visitors

 

 

So where do we go from here?

 

1) Dealers (with no direct partnership to a rep, disributor, or manufacturer) and installers, will always have a voice here.

 

2) The Admin has the last word - whether or not someone else could have started a forum like this, they didn't, and he did.

 

3) Members come and go and circumstances change. I'd like to think members that are here now will be here in 2 years, but history shows that many either dissapear in thier own world or move onto other jobs.

 

 

Now, lets hear some suggestions and totally forget about sales and marketing. The basis of this forum is for technical support, and over time has also become a knowledge base of Information and collection of new friendships in the industry we have all come to love - CCTV.

 

Peace yall .. .

Rory

[Cooperman 0]

.... and nobody mentioned the consultants ....

 

Story of my life

[Thomas 0]

Please elaborate on that. I don't see alot of consultants here but it is something to think about.

[VJD 0]

In the past, a former mod gave members access to the Dealers Only forum that weren't actually dealers. I think this is one of the reasons why that forum is not utilized more. Legitimate dealers will not want to post topics there that are not meant for public consumption.

 

Will this forum ever be audited for proper qualifications?

[rory 0]

Yeah i think only AvConsulting .... and Coop?

[Thomas 0]

I do try to filter for it and it takes time. The hard part is I can not absolutely prove you are who you say you are.

[jisaac 0]

I would make people fax or email in a copy of their business license. And then also follow up with a call to that business by their number associated with the business by way off directory. Ask to speak with a manager and then ask if that person is who they say they are. You cant 100% prove it all the time but you can get pretty dang close. n

[Thomas 0]

Keep in mind that this is something I do in my off time. If someone is willing to go that far then great but I can't.

[rory 0]

Yeah if all the dealers want to pay something for that kind of service then ... well .. it will have to stay the way it is ..

[frosted 0]

This forum is becomming more and more usefull for me as my knowledge base expands and i understand more and more or what you chaps are saying. however i do find poeple quite carefull what they say about certain companines and products due to it being public.

 

These use of the forum for me is to quite simply learn more about cctv and the best way to expand and make my business a sucsess. and i have to say this place has helped a lot!

 

i would say an installer/owner/cctv worker area would be a very good idea. and to keep it monitred by common sence. if someone is going to spend enough time on here and post enough just to blag in, well they might as well just hack the damn forum for acsess. would be quicker!

[CollinR 0]

If it were my site...

 

I would have a staff forum for mods, you might I'm not a mod so I don't know.

 

I would make the dealer area invisable to those who aren't authorized to read it.

 

This will kill 2 birds with one stone.

 

Reduce your PMs as dealer access would become via invite (which I think is whats happening anyway, the minimum post count isn't always enforced).

 

I don't have to see the red dot on the index page for new posts in a forum I can't read.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, use the staff forum for polls so the staff can vote people into/out of restricted forums.

 

 

This is not on the code of conduct though.

Edited March 7, 2006 by Guest

[frosted 0]

I don't have to see the red dot on the index page for new posts in a forum I can't read.

[Cooperman 0]

rory ... my knight in shining armour

 

Authenticating individuals will never be anywhere near 100% no matter what you do.

 

For example, in the U.K. there are no operator licences for CCTV, although the regulatory authority (the SIA) are hoping to start issuing licences, one day not very soon

 

That's why anyone and their uncle can set up a CCTV business, and why standards of professionalism are the funniest thing since Rowan and Martins Laugh In (my great grandparents used to tell me about it )

[cam2 0]

Coop's,

 

the UK has been very "lax" over the qualifications of a lot of "professionals" from the ground up.Way way behind the US in codes of safety and workmanship in electrical, plumbing and construction in general.

 

With the arrival of "Corgi" which is now regulating the gas side of things it seemed to spark a safety purge, if you like for the rest to catch up.

 

As you will be aware the electrical side has now included its "partp", this will stamp out a lot of shoddy installs.

 

Indeed even a simple window replacement now has to comply and the LA are now getting tough to ensure these areas are hitting standards.

 

Given time it will filter down to CCTV , just dont hold your breath..........

[frosted 0]

That's why anyone and their uncle can set up a CCTV business

 

yep thats right (as i have and are doing at the moment). this is why there are so many bloody idiots i have met doing installs locally. really is scary. im no expert but christ i dont charge the earth for crap and make sure i supply the same level of support and be as profinsinol as i am in my it consultancy business!

[Cooperman 0]

Hey guys,

 

It's quite likely to get a wee bit worse before it starts to get better.

 

SIA licensing for consultants has now been put back till late 2007 (at the earliest), and heaven only knows when CCTV installers will get their shiny new piece of plastic.

 

We could probably all do a lot better working in the States, mind you, it's a heck of a long way to commute everyday

[frosted 0]

yeah i mean from my point im glad there is no real regs as its allowed me to get in the door easy. however im not some bloody egit! lol!

 

i loved one guy today when my client got a quote from someone,

 

well the cctv guy i saw said its 500 quid a cam and then 1.5k for the dvr. and just work out the cost on that.

 

i actually laughed out loud at that !!!!!!!

 

bloody idiots!

[cam2 0]

Do you think that's expensive?