cctvqueen 0 Posted March 4, 2006 I am looking for a cost efficient casino dvr. Now every state has different requirements as far as frame rate (typically for gaming application- real time 30fps) with a good compression, 7 days of storage. I'm not looking for anything elaborate such as the Endura, or Nice system setup- way too pricey and training required for resale. I've been selling the Sanyo DSRM810 single channel casino dvr --- but playback is very grainy. Any suggestions? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted March 4, 2006 Forget Casino for a second, what are the exact requirements? You will probably find yourself having to go PC Windows based, especially if high quality evidence sharing is important. You may at this point start sayin "yeah it's all good but i need stability!" Okay ... i know I can help you there .. . well actually I posted on this forum already how to set up a PC Windows based DVR so it is as stable as can be (for windows). If you need a link to the thread, please just ask. If you have ever had bad results with PC Windows Systems, I dont blame you, not everyone knows how to set them up properly. Now, I was the "Kalatel or nothing" user for 6 years ... well it became GE in that time also .. (PS im killing some time away from the software development right now )) ). And Plug, Play and Forget about it, was my middle name ... search the forum and yee shall find ... I still believe in Stand alone RTOS DVRs ... but just not for the higher quality evidence sharing and faster speeds that are common in certain PC Windows based DVR Systems. You can easily do the Casino with Matrix Systems from companies like GE, etc, and they even have their own Casino type DVR systems as well. Even GE does a PC based Casino System now .. though they arent cheap. I would start by looking at the various requirements by Casinos in your area .. Rory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cctvqueen 0 Posted March 4, 2006 Rory, Hate to be negative, but G.E. is on my poop-list. Not only have I had problems with there DVMRE series units (mostly HD failure) but there outside reps have been taking my customers direct. Not to mention there Customer Service has gone down the tubes... Just last week, I had a 40K IFS fiber order shipping to Canada via Bax Global (customer acct# and broker) THEY SHIPPED IT FED-EX!!!!! Talk about a headache. Sorry, besides the point. However, you are a smart cookie, so I will hear you out. Which unit would you recomend going with for this application? (will it communicate with a Bosch protocol?) Just curious. Not my #1 concern, however I am working on an expansion job where GSA did the original install, and he's wanting to save $$$ without compromising quality... Still thinking Kalatal is my solution? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted March 4, 2006 I hear you on the fedex ... had that with kalatel and a warranty item .. think shipping times 3 and add 45% Customs Duty ... arghhh .. but for me, its the same with all name brands from the US. Anyway, lets not get into manufacturer/rep stuff here pleeaase ...tankx Personally I never had an issue with their HDDs but you may have installed more than me .. remember sales and installation are 2 seperate things . .. if they arent installed on a Voltage Regulator or Line Conditioner then it doesnt count - its like the difference of puttin leaded gas into an unleaded gas vehicle ... When you say Bosch Protocol ... im lost ... ? Is it because it uses a bosch PTZ? Phillips Protocol then ...? I never finished off saying GE/Kalatel was the way to go though ... only mentioned them as an example, there are others that are big brands and have specific R&D Casino Apps. You could even build your own from the bottom up, very easily. Without going to deep, who is GSA? And are your clients the Las Vegas type clients? If so they will have their own requirements ... Thanks Rory PS. hope to meet the queen at vegas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cctvqueen 0 Posted March 4, 2006 Hey there ho there, BOSCH,Otherwise known as Phillips, same thing...lol.... Sorry:) Yes, the casino has Phillips ptz's, and DVR's (Divars and Desas' ) Looking 2 expand adding probably 12-15 dvr's (approx 150 cams) GSA- Is a global casino integrator. They are in bed with Bosch and have alot better buying power then any distributer out there (almost 30-40 %) Oops, my bad. I sell alot of PELCO AND AMERICAN DYNAMIC MATRIX UNITS. Not very familiar with G/E's matrix bays. LOR GAL FROM NOR CAL~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted March 4, 2006 what Casino board though ...?? Is it an indian one or Las Vegas? GE .. well Kalatel, have been doing Matrix from day 1 .. though Ultrack & Ganz has always been the Casino's choice of products ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cctvqueen 0 Posted March 4, 2006 This one is a small indian casino here in California. They are using Bosch DIVAR's currently. I deal with quite a few casino's both indian casinos as well as Vegas Casinos. My biggest opstacle is spec'ing a dvr that meets all of the regulations. Do you really think that going with a PC Based unit is the best solution? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spyman99 0 Posted March 4, 2006 We have done small Casinos, speficially POKER ROOMS at 6 Florida Dog Tracks now all with the Mace 1600 RT DVR and term you asked was cost efficent and reliable. The client wanted embedded DVR's, no PC based systems and has been very sastified with them so far and we are under contract to do 6 more locations with the Mace DVR's. As a side note, I did have the opportunity to view in person the IC REALTIME DVR's and until the upcomming ISC WEST show, will be the one of the best D1 DVR's I've seen so far, for both display in real time and playback. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCTVKING 0 Posted March 6, 2006 CCTVqueen - Are you my wife? I designed and installed dozens of large casino in Vegas and tribal applications. I have used Bosch, Pelco, AD, Honeywell, and Sanyo. Your comments regarding Sanyo's DSR-M810 being "grainy" cannot be accurate unless you have a problem with the install. While Sanyo's box is not as sexy and advanced as the enterprise systems, their picture quality is indeed FAR BETTER. In fact, you cannot even tell the difference between live and playback. Add in the low price, and it's a hard box for many casinos to pass up. As you probably already know, Sanyo has over 70 casinos installed with this unit. You may be referring to the DSR-M814 QUAD unit. Ask Brian James about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kandcorp 0 Posted March 6, 2006 As a side note, I did have the opportunity to view in person the IC REALTIME DVR's and until the upcomming ISC WEST show, will be the one of the best D1 DVR's I've seen so far, for both display in real time and playback. Definitely agree with you on that one spyman. Casinos should love the ICR “Pro Series†Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted March 6, 2006 They went with a major PC based card system. Unfortunately a big concern after the installation was the quality of playback/live video. The owner was very unhappy and is having both DVR's at both locations removed to be replaced with stand alones. Which PC DVR did they use? If using the DSP for output live video is as clear as any standalone, and evidence sharing is even better quality ... but thats with a decent PC Card System .. not all of them. For example i used CCTV Monitors in my last Geo install (VueStar DVR), came out amazing quality, and uses the IR remote for control, optionally can add keyboards. You could also use the loop through cards to output to Matrix systems, and if they had the cash, could also back up each camera individually to single channel DSR-2000's which are 60pps each, or the Sanyo's as CCTV King mentioned. If they have an internal IT dept then they wont have issues with maintaining the PC's, whereas when the stand alones go down .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kandcorp 0 Posted March 6, 2006 They were using Aver cards. The PC though was built by my dealer first off with a PC Chips $25.00 Cheap Via Chipset Motherboard, second w/ an AMD cpu, and last On Board Video . Basically he purchased the cards and cameras and built the systems locally in Columbia. Now with a better pc hardware setup, performance of the DVR should increase dramatically. But, having no internal IT dept. it really doesn't matter which way they go s/a or pc dvr. But, its a lot different in Columbia, budgets for surveillance systems are very low, well at least in this case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted March 6, 2006 Colombia like the country? Small Casino I guess .. even here they have all kinds of departments .. but here they are under the Las Vegas Gaming board also .. PC Chips mobo, now thats my kind of budget Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kandcorp 0 Posted March 6, 2006 Colombia like the country? Small Casino I guess .. Yes, the country. Yes, pretty small casinos. You wouldn't believe the traffic they get though, especially early morning. Almost every Slot Machine in the entire place is occupied. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Bal 0 Posted March 7, 2006 Hi Guys and queens, If you are dealing with any kind of casino you need to understand every casino is going to tell an intergrator or a box seller that they cant buy anything expensive. I think that is bunch of bull. a casino would not be in business if they were not making money. even the small guys are making money. using DVR'S like Katalel or sany in a Casino is a bad move. one thing the sanyo usit is like an Atari in playstation world. when you want to review video you have to wait for a buffer. other systems like AD they are mpeg 2. Most companies are working on systems that are H.264 most good ones are using MPEG4 and trying to work out the bugs of the H.264. another thing installing surveillance and installing systems in casinos is totaly differant and until you fully understand minimun internal controlls of gaming regulations and have acually been inside a casino surveillance room and spent some time watching what the observers do, and how they are trained to catch the bad guy, you have no business even thinking about trying to bid on one. casino Surveillance absulaty desivers the best recording as possable and when you are going to install a dvr system you should not install anything inferrior. Nice/Fast Endura PI Vision any of the companies that only manafacture DVR's and not all other kinds of equipment should only be in a casino surveillance room, Except the endura and I am not even a fan of that system but I would put it in a casino before kalatel, AD and espicall the Sanyo/Atari system. I do not want to get any body upset but this is a Forum and this advise I am giving usall comes with A $2500 a day invoice. take my advice when it comes to Casino surveillance use only the best because if you do not you will spending more money ripping it out that you will make putting it in. another thing to remeber a DVR is only as good as the camera that is taking the Video, remeber the old saying Garabage in garbage out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Remember Kalatel was around before any of those guys though .. when they only made DVRs, actually it was another company before Kalatel bought them out, then Kalatel aquired GBC, then GE bought Kalatel. Its still one of the best stand alone DVRs on the market .. Personally Im not bidding on a Casino but if I were to in another lifetime, I would spend some time in there first, then sure, I would certainly be able to bid on it ... same would go for a bank as well . ..i dont see the inside of either as much as i would like to PS. Pi Vision does cameras now also, under the company that aquired them, Petards. Edited March 7, 2006 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Bal 0 Posted March 7, 2006 rory yes kalatel has been aroung for a long time but that does not make them the best, if you were to look at what system's sell the most you would see that Pelco probably outsells kalatel 10-1 I have been in this business only 10 years but I have yet to see alot of there systems, they did have a good run though when every body was using multiplexers though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted March 7, 2006 Pelco uses a DVR PC card from Asia ... GE (kalatel) is an RTOS Embedded Stand alone DVR. .. but i did say it is "one" of the best. There is no "best" in the CCTV world, each application can differ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMANOFNVS 0 Posted March 7, 2006 The funniest thing about this is from my customers experience is they want the best yet alot are still using VCRS. So the way I look at it is anything is going to be better then that. I could take an inexpensive 1ch DVR that cost less then a Sanyo SRC800A and the playback will be better and no tapes to change, just swap a HD every once in a while. For the CCTVKING where have you been hiding??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Bal 0 Posted March 7, 2006 Rory you are right about pelco but this discussion is about Casino dvr A STAND ALONE dvr will never make it in a casino enviorment. For smaller apps I am sure the Kalatel would be great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMANOFNVS 0 Posted March 7, 2006 Isn't Sanyo's DVR's stand-alone?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted March 7, 2006 I never said it would ... however Im sure GE would have something to say about that since they make Casino DVRs, which are PC Based DVRs. I actually suggested a PC Based DVR System ... and stand alone single channel DVRs as secondary back up only ..as they are more unlikely to fail than a PC System, be it DVR or NVR .. Also, since Casinos were using Tapes for soo many years ... anything else but tape should suffice .. Though if I were to bid on a Casino, it wouldnt be free ... also, I wouldnt use what everyone else is using, I would see what they need, the requirements and the application, and find a product/products that would do the job the best. Rory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Bal 0 Posted March 7, 2006 rory seeking out what system to use for a customer is always a good Idea, One thing alot of people fail to do is Listen to what the cliant wants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted March 7, 2006 Yep, thats true also, though alot of times the client doesn't know what they want, doesn't know what all is available, or are misled by friends, family, business associates, or false advertising. I think we just went off topic.. this could be said for all industries now .. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMANOFNVS 0 Posted March 7, 2006 Don't forget they always want a Mercedes for a Pinto price!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
