Suggestions for camera placement / type

[Squall 0]

Hello,

 

I would like to install a surveillance system to cover entry to my house having had one unwanted youth kick the back door in.

 

There is an akward space at the side of the house, where people may hide and attack the back door, and the property is right by a public foot path. See front + side view.

 

I am planning on using mostly dome cameras at this particular time unless there it's sensible to do otherwise. I have two to experiment with so far and the base system ready.

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I've made a first mark up on the attached pictures where the cameras might go. Some high up for observation, and two especially by the side door for recognition or identification hopefully.

 

The cameras by the back door I was going to set quite low about 6ft5 above ground.

 

Regards.

 

Jason

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Numb-nuts 1]

Your main aim should be to deter rather than catch offenders.

So long as you keep your aims formost in your mind I think you are on the right track. In terms of height of cameras look around see what there is for the intruders to stand on ( wheelie bins are a favorite) to vandalize a camera mount ot of their reach

Vandal resistant domes are your best bet. The eye domes don't last long if attacked. There's no such thing as vandal proof only vamdal resistant cameras misdescribed. Theres a recent thread regarding vamdalized domes take a look.

 

I'd be more worried about the pile of rubble that could be used to smash your patio doors.

[SyconsciousAu 0]

Your main aim should be to deter rather than catch offenders.

 

Those are not mutually exclusive, nor can the first exist without the latter. Anyone who wants to deter crime needs to give thought to why crime occurs, and what actually deters offenders.

 

All crooks ask themselves the same questions.

 

1. Is there an opportunity to commit a crime?

2. Will I be detected if I commit that crime?

3. If I am detected can I evade capture?

4. If I am detected or captured can I evade consequence?

5. Is the reward of my crime worth the risk of detection, capture and consequence?

6. What countermeasures can I take to avoid detection capture and consequence?

7. Will those countermeasures reduce the risk of detection, capture and consequence to an acceptable level?

 

If you want to effectively deter crime, and can't remove the opportunity to commit a crime, then you must create a situation where, in the mind of the offender, detection, capture and consequences are inevitable, and there is nothing they can do to change that fact, other than go somewhere else. If you are attempting to deter, without thinking about catching the crook, then you are not attempting to deter.

 

I'd be more worried about the pile of rubble that could be used to smash your patio doors.

 

This is a good point. One of the ways you can remove the opportunity for a crook to commit a crime is to remove things they can use as improvised tools to commit that crime.

 

Squall you have correctly identified that issue near your side door. There is no visibility from anywhere there. I would consider removing that wall and replacing it with a barrier that you can see through like spear top fencing. As for camera placement I would put my camera at the rear of the house facing forward to the gate rather than over the door. I've estimated that space is about 3m x 6m long A 3MP with a 6mm lens on it would give you north of 400 pixels per meter at the gate and side door from the back of the house. 352ppm is the Australian Standard for identification resolution.

 

That camera you have on the side of the house looking over the garage to the footpath doesn't appear to have much purpose. It will have a huge blind spot for anyone walking up that path. Have you considered putting a camera on the side of the carport looking over the fence? You could mount it on an fascia mount like are used for TV Antenna's. You could even put one at each end of your carport facing each other. Would cover your side fence and the footpath in both directions.

 

In your back yard why haven't you got a camera covering your most likely point of entry? A 3mp Dome with a 2.8mm lens to the top right of that door would give you an ID shot for anyone going through the door and an overview over most of your back yard.

 

The camera you have in your front yard facing down the driveway is good but I would think about moving it back and up a little so it is behind the fence to the right hand side of the side door. Gives it a bit more protection and will bring it into the view of the camera at the back of the house.

 

Id also reconsider having the camera's up on the second floor. Gives you a great view of the top of people's heads, and not much else. If you brought the camera over the door down and put in a 3MP dome with a 4mm or maybe even 6mm lens on it you would get an ID shot of anyone on your front door step and they would be walking toward the camera from the driveway. That one is a little lonely out there and wont capture people coming from your neighbour's front yard so I would consider another camera facing it.

[Numb-nuts 1]

Well there you have it some people know it all and this is obviously the only and definitive answer.

By the way have you booked a bulldozer yet?

Wouldn't it be cheaper to knock down the entire house then there wouldn't be a problem.

[Squall 0]

Well there you have it some people know it all and this is obviously the only and definitive answer.

By the way have you booked a bulldozer yet?

Wouldn't it be cheaper to knock down the entire house then there wouldn't be a problem.

 

 

Well I could but I don't think the mortgage provider would approve. There isn't too much trouble round here, but when there are no cars on the driveway it's usually kiddies that break in and look for only cash or jewelry.

 

The rubble at the front is for the patio at the back which isn't finished. if I got rid of it now I would have to buy some more later.

[Squall 0]

 

All crooks ask themselves the same questions.

 

1. Is there an opportunity to commit a crime?

2. Will I be detected if I commit that crime?

3. If I am detected can I evade capture?

4. If I am detected or captured can I evade consequence?

5. Is the reward of my crime worth the risk of detection, capture and consequence?

6. What countermeasures can I take to avoid detection capture and consequence?

7. Will those countermeasures reduce the risk of detection, capture and consequence to an acceptable level?

 

 

I have addressed some of those issues already. There is ongoing building work here at the moment, so there are things I can't do at the moment.

 

Squall you have correctly identified that issue near your side door. There is no visibility from anywhere there. I would consider removing that wall and replacing it with a barrier that you can see through like spear top fencing.

 

Yes, I have thought of this, but without an opaque barrier people can see into the garden. The other idea I had was to remove the barrier entirely and move it towards the back at the end of the garage. Thereby preventing covert access to the side door.

 

As for camera placement I would put my camera at the rear of the house facing forward to the gate rather than over the door. I've estimated that space is about 3m x 6m long A 3MP with a 6mm lens on it would give you north of 400 pixels per meter at the gate and side door from the back of the house. 352ppm is the Australian Standard for identification resolution.

 

 

Yes, that's a good idea, but I think I may also need on at low level facing backwards to cover people hiding in that gap between the garage and the house, that is where the guest approached from last time.

 

That camera you have on the side of the house looking over the garage to the footpath doesn't appear to have much purpose. It will have a huge blind spot for anyone walking up that path.

 

Yes good point, I will not put one there.

 

Have you considered putting a camera on the side of the carport looking over the fence?

You could mount it on an fascia mount like are used for TV Antenna's. You could even put one at each end of your carport facing each other. Would cover your side fence and the footpath in both directions.

 

I thought of this, but assume that it would invite camera vandalism. It depends if they were visible or not from the path.

 

In your back yard why haven't you got a camera covering your most likely point of entry? A 3mp Dome with a 2.8mm lens to the top right of that door would give you an ID shot for anyone going through the door and an overview over most of your back yard.

 

Yes indeed. I thought about this last night and think that would be a very sensible place for a camera, instead of what I posted.

 

The camera you have in your front yard facing down the driveway is good but I would think about moving it back and up a little so it is behind the fence to the right hand side of the side door. Gives it a bit more protection and will bring it into the view of the camera at the back of the house.

Yes that sounds like a very good idea.

 

Id also reconsider having the camera's up on the second floor. Gives you a great view of the top of people's heads, and not much else.

Yes, I put them there for an overview but it doesn't seem very useful or cost effective.

 

 

If you brought the camera over the door down and put in a 3MP dome with a 4mm or maybe even 6mm lens on it you would get an ID shot of anyone on your front door step and they would be walking toward the camera from the driveway. That one is a little lonely out there and wont capture people coming from your neighbour's front yard so I would consider another camera facing it.

 

 

yes, a very good point. I have a camera on a moveable test board now and see it isn't very helpful. The front of the house isn't very vulnerable in my opinion given the number of facing houses and passers by on the path.

 

I will re-sketch my camera locations and consider what I can do about the wall between the garage and the house.

 

Thanks for your enlightening suggestions. I'll do some more testing to see how things look and re-plan accordingly.

[SyconsciousAu 0]

Well there you have it some people know it all and this is obviously the only and definitive answer.

 

You are a crusty grumpy old soul Numb-nuts, though if I lived in Manchester I'd probably be grumpy and crusty too.

 

By the way have you booked a bulldozer yet?

Wouldn't it be cheaper to knock down the entire house then there wouldn't be a problem.

 

From the look of those pictures Squall is quite handy on the tools. I don't think I suggested anything he couldn't DIY or that would be cost prohibitive.

 

[

Have you considered putting a camera on the side of the carport looking over the fence?

You could mount it on an fascia mount like are used for TV Antenna's. You could even put one at each end of your carport facing each other. Would cover your side fence and the footpath in both directions.

 

I thought of this, but assume that it would invite camera vandalism. It depends if they were visible or not from the path.

 

I've got one camera in a position where it is vulnerable to being attacked but it has never been an issue. In addition to being in a protective enclosure it is also covered by another camera.

 

Having camera's mounted in pairs so they can cover each other will deter random idiots from vandalising them.

 

http://www.jaycar.com.au/Sight-%26-Sound---Home/TV-Accessories/Antenna-Hardware/Antenna-Bargeboard-Mount/p/LT3200

 

That is the type of antenna mount I was talking about earlier. Something like that would put your cameras 2.9m high and 1.5m (rough guesstimates based on your pictures) from the fence line. Still not impossible to vandalise but it will be fairly tough. With the cameras covering each other most will be deterred.

 

There isn't too much trouble round here, but when there are no cars on the driveway it's usually kiddies that break in and look for only cash or jewelry.

 

Based on what you posted earlier your main risk seems to be short stay break and enter offenders who arrive on foot without much preparation, not the sort of offender who vandalises a camera hours or days in advance to create blind spots for the main event.

[Squall 0]

Based on what you posted earlier your main risk seems to be short stay break and enter offenders who arrive on foot without much preparation, not the sort of offender who vandalises a camera hours or days in advance to create blind spots for the main event.

 

That is right I think. But I wondered about passers by who become bored. The car port is about metre away from the fence though, so without an implement or climbing the fence they couldn't be reached.

 

 

I will but this on the back burner and see concentrate on the main event first. I am just trailing the domes at the moment.

 

The IR on the dome I have (Hikvision DS-2CD2132F-IS) is meant to go 10 - 30 metres, but I find that it only goes about 3m, but perhaps this could be due to a street lamp opposite near line of sight.

[steve6690 0]

I have the 2132F-IS and the IR goes a lot further than 3m, probably 15-20m. You're not going to get evidential quality ID from an IR camera at night but this model should illuminate a person out to about 20m or more.