9 camera system for church - quick advice please

[sijaz 0]

I'm helping our church price out and install around 9 cameras. I would prefer to buy a kit with cameras, DVR, HD controls, and power supply. Church sits on a large 3 acre property, but the cameras will be outdoor on at least 2 buildings (main church + multipurpose hall). Exteriewr coverage expcted including parking lot and car entrance. One quote the church got included the items listed below. I would appreciate your input and advice. Some of the items I don't quite understand (what is "HD controls", why 2 DVR's, etc.?). I'm hoping to buy a kit that includes everything and install it myself for the church. What are some options, please? Location is in Texas.

 

2 x 8 CH HD DVR 1080 4T (models LTN7604-P4 and LTN7608-P8)

6 x PTZ 1.3MP 23x optical HD 1080

3 x 2MP 1080 HD (model CMHT 1422W-28)

2 X HD controls

7 x Siamese cable 500 feet

1 x PB 9 AMPS 12v Power supply

1 x PB 9 AMPS 24v Power supply

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. Sounds like you got a quote from the wrong person ..... Parts you have listed just make it expensive..... Two DVRS will need two monitors ..... Go 1 16 way and only 1 monitor is needed

 

Then there is the storage of data (hard drives). 6 PTZ cameras will eat that up.

 

PTZ cameras are useless if no operators is with them fix cameras are better or your install and that will save you $1000s alone

 

I would look for a CVI system like dahua 16 way dvr and 16 fixed cameras

 

But if your understand networking then go IP system

 

What is your ideal budget ?

[sijaz 0]

Thanks. The above quote was a shocking $8k without monitors or computer. Budget is $4k. Any other specific recommendations? What is "HD control"? Thanks again

[zr1 0]

Number of cams

I typically go with the goals of what is wanting to be recorded, then do a site inspection to walk around saying things like "hmmmm" a lot to get the sight lines, then let that dictate the number of cams as well as the lens types (wide angle, regular, telephoto, etc.)

 

Church security in general

There's several sources such as a couple of YouTube channels with a ton of info...some web sites dedicated to church security concepts...and even some well-respected defense firearms trainers that go on the road and do conferences focusing on church security questions. Cameras on one layer.

 

PTZ

+1 on the PTZ. They give a great "wow" factor when you're showing off the system, but in practice, they're only recording in the direction they're pointing. For places that have personnel manning the PTZ controls, fine...but otherwise it often makes sense to simply put 2-3 cams at that spot and record all the angles you want all the time.

 

2 NVR's vs 1 bigger NVR

+1 there too. LTS's 16ch DVR/NVR's work fine...I did quite a few of those last year and have been very happy with them. Also...it's very common for a customer to come back a year or so later and want more cams...so if you have a couple extra channels open on your NVR, then upgrades are cheap to add on to that same NVR.

 

TVI vs IP

The high-def analogs work great over the coax cable and give up to around 2MP...kinda cool. But if it's a new install, I go with IP systems all the way. The exception is if I have some really loonnnng cable to run as IP gets interesting past 300 feet.

 

If it's a place that has a bunch of existing coax...then I consider one of the high-def analogs (such as TVI, etc.)...but for new installs? Nah...I go IP.

 

Cost

TVI isn't much and those little 1422W's will look good (I prefer the 2722's for TVI turret cams over the 1422). You may consider the camera angles...using 2.8 lens for the wide angle shots, but perhaps some 4mm lens on other spots (parking lots, etc.). Google up a camera lens calculator. This one has pics for general representation:

http://polarisusa.com/lens-calculator

(I'm not affiliated with the site)

 

Quote

Uh...yeah....I'd look to get another local quote.

A quote would depend heavily on a site survey...but I would think a TVI install for 9 cams (non-PTZ) might be around 4-5k in many locales. Going to a nice IP may be 6-7k.

 

Doing up a church last year, they opted for cams that are pretty popular for local businesses. Here's the cams businesses chose most for me in 2015.

 

Outdoor cams mounted 10' or higher:

Large bullet cams such as:

TVI - CHMR9422

IP - CMIP8332

 

Indoor cams (entrances, public areas, etc.)

TVI - CMHT2722

IP - CMIP3032

 

Outdoor with reach of a person

TVI - CMHT7422

IP - CMIP7432

[captainvideo 0]

I think the reason for the 2 dvrs is because you have 2 separate buildings .

It says 2x8ch hd dvr's but it looks like a 4 and an 8

From the way I understand this , the big question is

How will a do it yourself er get siamese or cat5 cabling from one building to the other ?

Is there buried conduit with enough room for more wire ?

Is there a spare conduit ? Good luck !

Will the cabling have to be run aerial from building to building ?

How far apart are the buildings ?

Is there a driveway between the buildings?

Is there Internet at both buildings ?

Can this be accomplished by the average DIYer ?

No offense meant to you or your ability as a diyer

Sometimes 2 dvrs cost more up front but may be cheaper in the long run ! ! !

[sijaz 0]

Great points. Yes there is conduit between the buildings. But still, that's a reason for the 2 DVRs I presume. If I use 2 DVRs the install seems quite easy, esp for IP system. Is there a limit on how far the camera can be from the NVR? If there is, how do resolve that problem? Some sort of booster in the cat5?

[zr1 0]

If the cable distance between the two buildings is less than 300 feet (practical max for a network connection without going to boosters/extenders/or having a switch in between), then you have options. For example:

 

Building A:

NVR

Cams for Building A

single Cat5 to conduit

 

Building B:

single Cat5 from conduit

POE switch (Cat5 plugs into that)

Cams for Building B plug into POE switch

....or a regular switch and power the cams however you want

 

 

...or

 

Building A:

NVR

Cams for Building A

Cat5 from router to conduit

 

Building B:

NVR

Cams for Building B

Switch (Cat5 from conduit goes to switch...as does NVR #2

......or do the above with two TVI DVRs

Downside...

User logs into two different NVRs to see stuff. Not a huge deal, I have customers that do it and don't blink at it. Other customers make use of CMS software to manage the two NVR-views together (which'll cost)

 

 

...or

Building A:

DVR (TVI)

Cams for Building A

Coax cables for conduit for all the building B cams

 

Building B

coax cables from conduit

coax cables go to TVI Building B cams

(TVI cable runs can be really long)

Downside...

running all that coax

limited upgradability

does all that coax fit in the conduit?

[captainvideo 0]

I think 2. 8 channel hd-cvi hvr's would be perfect . That way you can have up to 8 hd-cvi cams and 2 ip cams at both locations .that would give you a tremendous amount of camera's to choose from .plus you said that there were other potential out buildings so there is room for expansion and you probably won't have to be concerned about cable distance since hd-cvi can go up to 1500' .judging by the amount of cable on your estimate ,there must be many long cable runs unless they were charging you for spools of siamese cable that they were going to keep !!! hd-cvi gives you up to 30 fps which to me is one of the most important spec.the fastest hd-tvi systems that I have come across doing research say real time recording at 16 fps .I know ,30 fps gobbles up hard drive space bUT terabytes are so cheap these days and not every cam needs to be set at 30 fps.1. 4tb drive in each recorder with cams set to motion will give you several weeks or more of storage .depending on the activity level at your church and you can always add another hard drive later on if needed .

Then with one app you can view all cams at both locations on one screen on your phone ,tablet , etc.

I like to use Google Earth when designing a setup like your doing .it gives you a clear aerial view of your location and may help you pick better cam locations.plus you can use it to measure distances from cam location to your coverage area which will help make better camera choices and lens selections . I print several aerial photos and draw up the camera layout on the pix.

The website of my supply house on long Island has an extensive selection of everything you need and their prices are the best I have found anywhere .you can use the site to get a rough idea of the costs of equipment and to compare specs .not sure if I can post it without getting in trouble .I am not affiliated with them in any way . 123securityproduct.com .sorry in advance if I pissed anyone off .your best bet in my opinion as a DIYer is to find a local supply house to purchase from ,that way you can see ,touch and ask questions .easier for returns ,exchanges ,and warranty issues too .remember though ,most of these guys are salesmen and not installers .some supply houses have system designers to help you .

It's not easy comparing equipment from one supply house to another because there are a few universal brands and then most supply houses have several companies that rebadge or rebrand their products and put the supply house's brand on them .my supply houses brand is cantek and some stuff is made for them from dahua branded cantek .but because it says cantek doesn't mean it's a dahua product .

[jeromephone 6]

If you can go all IP for a new system I would go that route. If the distance between buildings is 300 feet or so I would go with one NVR and put a POE awitch in the second buiding also if running cat 6 between buildings run a spare if their is room in the conduit direct bury /outdoor rated cable if conduit runs underground. Do you already have network in the second buidling?