Sorry to do it - yet another 'help' a noob thread

[OneAntelopeWay 0]

Hello all...so as the subject states, I'm starting my first surveillance rodeo and need a bit of guidance.

 

I do some volunteer IT work for a pet shelter and they have had a few break-in attempts recently and want some surveillance.

 

Budgets are tight, and I've been asked to keep it under $1000. Four cams would probably get the job done, with at least one needing to be outdoors.

 

By reading more reviews than I care to remember, I've reached the conclusion that the all-in-one packages you'll find at Costco/Sams/etc are junk, so I'm avoiding those brands.

 

I'm not sure if I should just build a pc on the cheap with a decent HDD, buy something like BlueIris and piece it together that way, buy an actual NVR and build it out with an HDD and cams, or try and find a decent package that at least half the reviewers can agree doesn't suck.

 

As for the cams, I've seen recommendations here for coax, and also for cat5...not sure which direction is best.

 

Dahua and Hikvision seem to be recommended frequently here, are they rather similar, or does one excel in a certain area?

 

I'm also most likely ignorant enough with the subject matter to not know what I don't know...if that makes sense in a meta-cognitive way...so if I've failed to mention important details, I'll be more than happy to elaborate.

 

I'm not TOTALLY helpless, and once I have a better idea of what equipment to pursue I'll probably be ok. I just don't want to waste their money, they do great work on a paupers budget, and I'd feel terrible installing a garbage system.

 

Thank you for any guidance, and sorry once again for another 'help the noob' post.

[Boogieman 1]

Hello all...so as the subject states, I'm starting my first surveillance rodeo and need a bit of guidance.

 

I do some volunteer IT work for a pet shelter and they have had a few break-in attempts recently and want some surveillance.

 

Budgets are tight, and I've been asked to keep it under $1000. Four cams would probably get the job done, with at least one needing to be outdoors.

 

By reading more reviews than I care to remember, I've reached the conclusion that the all-in-one packages you'll find at Costco/Sams/etc are junk, so I'm avoiding those brands.

 

I'm not sure if I should just build a pc on the cheap with a decent HDD, buy something like BlueIris and piece it together that way, buy an actual NVR and build it out with an HDD and cams, or try and find a decent package that at least half the reviewers can agree doesn't suck.

 

As for the cams, I've seen recommendations here for coax, and also for cat5...not sure which direction is best.

 

Dahua and Hikvision seem to be recommended frequently here, are they rather similar, or does one excel in a certain area?

 

I'm also most likely ignorant enough with the subject matter to not know what I don't know...if that makes sense in a meta-cognitive way...so if I've failed to mention important details, I'll be more than happy to elaborate.

 

I'm not TOTALLY helpless, and once I have a better idea of what equipment to pursue I'll probably be ok. I just don't want to waste their money, they do great work on a paupers budget, and I'd feel terrible installing a garbage system.

 

Thank you for any guidance, and sorry once again for another 'help the noob' post.

The ip systems at costco from lorex and swann are not junk. They are mostly lorex rebrands dahua and swann rebrands hikvision. With costco, if you EVER have a problem, you can return the entire system.

[OneAntelopeWay 0]

The Lorex reviews, on Costco and elsewhere, are just brutal, especially for the software and support.

 

Swann isn't much better...everyone says the cameras are great, but the software is terrible.

 

I think I'll keep looking for solutions, but I thank you for your input.

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. With your budget this would be a good buy for you.

 

It is a 16 way so it also gives you the option to add more cameras in the future.

This unit is also POE so that also saves money as you don't need the cost of power supply .... It's plug and play from camera to recorder.

 

For the cost of the recorder and what you have left you should be able to pick up 5 or 6 new cameras to go with it.

 

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=48979&hilit=Dahua

 

And since its for dogs home I will register the system with dahua ddns and cloud service. ...... Remote view and some storage free

[OneAntelopeWay 0]

Thanks, Tom. If it were my own purchase, I'd have no problem buying used, but in this situation I can't put them in a position of having no return options should something fail.

 

I will do some homework on that Dahua model though. Any input on the security concerns I've read about regarding Dahua?

 

Thanks for the recommendation!

[tomcctv 190]

Thanks, Tom. If it were my own purchase, I'd have no problem buying used, but in this situation I can't put them in a position of having no return options should something fail.

 

I will do some homework on that Dahua model though. Any input on the security concerns I've read about regarding Dahua?

 

Thanks for the recommendation!

 

 

Hi. It's hikvision that has the security concerns ... And now also comparability problems.

 

 

Costco don't sell the newest dahua ... So I would look for a dahua distributor to get there latest products. We're are you located .. See if one is close to you.

[OneAntelopeWay 0]

I would buy from Newegg, CDW, or TD, regardless of what I decide on. I'm in SE Wisconsin.

 

Here are a few snippets from Dahua reviews, of which I always take with a grain of salt, but with zero experience with any of these manufacturers, I'm basically stuck relying on them.

 

Overall, this NVR works okay. Meh. I was able to hook up several Dahua IP cameras to it, and I was up and running fairly quickly.

However, it has some nagging flaws.
1. The web UI does not work on any other device than Windows + Active X. You can't use it on an iPad.
2. Snapshots do not work. I'm very tech-saavy, tried many permutations, the feature is not functional.
3. You can't change the admin passwords.
4. The security on these cameras is laughable. You can easily bypass its authentication. Don't expose them on the Internet by port-forwarding.
5. There's no way to disable NAT; so, you can't expose the cameras on the same subnet; which means you can't address the cameras directly without putting them on a separate PoE switch and uplinking to the NVR. This is completely unnecessary.
6. Dahua's documentation is ridiculously inadequate. Want to use RTSP streams from the NVR? Good luck. You need to search online for the right URI (rtsp://user:password@nvr-ip-address/cam/realmonitor?channel=1&subtype=0&unicast=0)
7. The motion sensor capabilities are dodgy. Sometimes, they just don't work. Or they kick in after someone has moved out of frame.

 

Dahua DVR appliances do not properly restrict UPnP requests, which makes it easier for remote attackers to obtain access via vectors involving a replay attack against the TELNET port.

Dahua DVR appliances have a hardcoded password for (1) the root account and (2) an unspecified "backdoor" account, which makes it easier for remote attackers to obtain administrative access via authorization requests involving (a) ActiveX, (b) a standalone client, or (c) unknown other vectors.

The authorization implementation on Dahua DVR appliances accepts a hash string representing the current date for the role of a master password, which makes it easier for remote attackers to obtain administrative access and change the administrator password via requests involving (1) ActiveX, (2) a standalone client, or (3) unspecified other vectors, a different vulnerability than CVE-2013-3612.

http://securityvulns.com/news/Dahua/DVR/1311.html

Search "dahua" at shodan (dot) io yourself to see all the devices out there: https://www.shodan.io/search?query=dahua

[mstoetz1 0]

I would buy from Newegg, CDW, or TD, regardless of what I decide on. I'm in SE Wisconsin.

 

Here are a few snippets from Dahua reviews, of which I always take with a grain of salt, but with zero experience with any of these manufacturers, I'm basically stuck relying on them.

 

http://securityvulns.com/news/Dahua/DVR/1311.html

 

Search "dahua" at shodan (dot) io yourself to see all the devices out there: https://www.shodan.io/search?query=dahua[/code]

 

I won't address specific comments, but I will say my experiences with an DAHUA NVR5416-16P, is:

 

1) I was able to hardcoat IP's in both hikvision and Dahua cameras and connect them to the DAHUA NVR, also using a separate POE switch (not plugging them into the NVR POE).

 

2) With regards to the security vulnerabilities, I personally would never allow inbound traffic to mine (or any NVR for that matter) from the internet without specific firewall rules as to source IP (ie: only allow work IP's). I let my cameras email me if they detect motion etc, since this is outbound, its fine. I don't allow any incoming connections period to my internal network.

 

3) I've had no issues with snapshots with my NVR and mixture of DAHUA and Hikvision cameras.

 

4) No matter what you have, they all will have security vulnerabilities. All "internet of things" will probably have them too... but all the more important they can be updated with firmware when available (which is one reason why I would not purchase from china unless you want your english firmware to change to chinese or something weird.

 

 

As you said, I think we need to take past reviews with a grain of salt.

 

just my 2 cents.

[OneAntelopeWay 0]

Yeah, I know everything is vulnerable, I just don't want it to be too easy.

 

Thanks for the comments, the experience you guys bring is invaluable.

[mirak 0]

I'd suggest shopping on Amazon for cams, DVRs, and packages that get good reviews. I'd spring for cams with at least 2mp sensors and 1080p. You're probably looking in the $200+ range just to get a DVR with a decent interface, plus the HDD which you usually have to buy and install separate (easy).

 

You might consider both IP (Cat 5) and HD-TVI (BNC aka coax) systems, because I hear they're comparable in image quality. The HD-TVI gear is generally cheaper and may be easier to set up.

 

Finally, keep in mind that you'll probably want an internet connection for remote viewing or email alerts. If the DVR is too far from your router, a cheap ethernet-over-power adapter works really well.

[OneAntelopeWay 0]

Hi mirak,

 

Thanks for the info. I started on Amazon, but the reviews are all over the place, and they have a bad habit of lumping reviews together for multiple units by the same manufacturer. I've had a difficult time parsing through the comments for reliable reviews.

 

At this point I'm leaning towards the Dahua NVR that was suggested above, and a few 'decent' IP cams. I'm hopeful the cams don't push me too far over budget.

 

For what it's worth, I am in IT, so once I know what to buy I should be ok...I just have zero experience with the brands, and very little idea of my options, and what pitfalls to avoid, etc.

[OneAntelopeWay 0]

So I'm leaning towards this unit with a 4TB purple drive from WD.

 

http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-81-183-073

 

After considering my options in conjunction with my lack of experience, I think a package is probably wiser.

 

This will only put me $100 over budget, and the reviews seem mostly positive.