Night cameras exposed by LEDS

[BML 0]

I want to install a security system but have been told that the camera's position can be exposed by the lights that emit from the LRDS. Is it true that they can be seen as a circle of pink lights and if so what can be done about it?

[Boogieman 1]

I want to install a security system but have been told that the camera's position can be exposed by the lights that emit from the LRDS. Is it true that they can be seen as a circle of pink lights and if so what can be done about it?

Why do you want to hide it?

[BML 0]

I believe that it is impossible to create absolute security and that a thief always exists that is capable of accessing a property.

I don't believe that CCTV deters thieves and so I would like to ensure that they will be apprehended and a camera that exposes its presence is of no use to me because it is likely to be disabled. So, does a camera exist that does not expose its presence when it is dark?

[Sam228 0]

They exist. It's all about wavelength. It has a relatively short letter/number identifier but I forgot what it is. I'm sure someone here knows.

 

You need to know that "invisible" IR is also weaker IR in many cases, meaning it won't reach as great a distance as the alternative and may also be dimmer.

[Boogieman 1]

I believe that it is impossible to create absolute security and that a thief always exists that is capable of accessing a property.

I don't believe that CCTV deters thieves and so I would like to ensure that they will be apprehended and a camera that exposes its presence is of no use to me because it is likely to be disabled. So, does a camera exist that does not expose its presence when it is dark?

You are simply wrong and going about this in a silly way. Do you thing thieves dont operate during the day? Do you think they dont go by the property and scope it out first? Do you think you cant see a camera simply because there is no IR? The camera is still visible. You can mess around with external ir in 940 but you are wasting money time and effort.

[BML 0]

There is absolutely no point in behaving in an abusive and insulting manner. I asked what I thought was a technical question and I thought that a forum such as this was the place to find an answer. I fail to see how that makes me simply wrong and going about this in a silly way.

Of course thieves operate during the day and of course they go by the property and scope it out first and of course I recognise that they can see a camera simply when there is no IR?

As for stating, "You can mess around with external ir in 940 but you are wasting money time and effort." I'm obliged to say I have no idea what you mean.

I would hope that there is such a thing as a CCTV camera that can be concealed by day and by night because that will give the forces of law and order a better chance of capturing a likeness and bringing the thieving scum who consider that they have the right to take what they like from who the wish to justice.

[Sam228 0]

There is absolutely no point in behaving in an abusive and insulting manner. I asked what I thought was a technical question and I thought that a forum such as this was the place to find an answer. I fail to see how that makes me simply wrong and going about this in a silly way.

Of course thieves operate during the day and of course they go by the property and scope it out first and of course I recognise that they can see a camera simply when there is no IR?

As for stating, "You can mess around with external ir in 940 but you are wasting money time and effort." I'm obliged to say I have no idea what you mean.

I would hope that there is such a thing as a CCTV camera that can be concealed by day and by night because that will give the forces of law and order a better chance of capturing a likeness and bringing the thieving scum who consider that they have the right to take what they like from who the wish to justice.

 

He gave you the answer you needed. The 940nm wavelength is where IR becomes invisible to the human eye. You are looking for a camera with the 940nm feature. They aren't common, because most people don't share your opinion. That being said, they are unjustifiably higher in price as they offer no benefit as the vast majority of the market sees it.

[the toss 0]

I cant see how Boogie has been abusive or insulting. Boogieman is a very knowledgable member of this forum giving up his time to help you. You need to do more listening and less talking. As has been indicated you are concentrating on the wrong point. The chances of you getting any footage of legal quality at night time is about 20% and LOTS of dollars. Forget about the visible IR and worry about all the important things

[Boogieman 1]

There is absolutely no point in behaving in an abusive and insulting manner. I asked what I thought was a technical question and I thought that a forum such as this was the place to find an answer. I fail to see how that makes me simply wrong and going about this in a silly way.

Of course thieves operate during the day and of course they go by the property and scope it out first and of course I recognise that they can see a camera simply when there is no IR?

As for stating, "You can mess around with external ir in 940 but you are wasting money time and effort." I'm obliged to say I have no idea what you mean.

I would hope that there is such a thing as a CCTV camera that can be concealed by day and by night because that will give the forces of law and order a better chance of capturing a likeness and bringing the thieving scum who consider that they have the right to take what they like from who the wish to justice.

There is absolute no point in acting in an arrogant manner. Your entire response to my question was an arrogant "I believe" rant when you obviously have NEVER installed a camera in your life and thus know nothing about perimeter security.

There is a reason why there almost no cctv cameras with 940nm IR..its weak and pointless in almost all cases.

Dont get offended so quickly. This is not a college campus. Stop playing victim and act insulted when someone tells you your idea is silly. This is not an internet "safe space". The advice dispensed on this forum is free, you dont get to dictate how polite anyone has to be to you. You didnt even bother doing a quick google search on the subject, just want to get spoon fed a how to.

[BML 0]

Knowing absolutely nothing about security devices or perimeter security I looked for a forum where I could ask a simple question and the response that I received was arrogant and insulting not a rant.

I thank you for the advice that there is a reason why there almost no cctv cameras with 940nm IR because its weak and pointless in almost all cases. Now I would like to find out if there is any way to cover the requirement I have in mind.

I do take offence when I receive the sort answers in the form that you offered. Good manners cost nothing. I did a more than quick Google search on the subject without finding the answer to my question other than the strange advice that to place notices where one sets up CCTV. I will now look for a security consultant who will offer a solution to my requirement which is to set up covert CCTV.

[BML 0]

All right, all right I'm stuffed. This the reply from the consultant.

"Unfortunately the way the Infra-red night vision works camera's can give off a slight red glow from the LEDs around the camera lens. Without these IR lights the cameras would be unable to operate in darkness and as this is a camera hardware feature it cannot be disabled."

 

"Camera systems are designed to be as much a deterrent as recording devices, covert cameras are quite limited and few exist which would be suitable for outdoor use."

 

As I said earlier, I'm not interested in deterring, I want to catch them and apart from sitting up all night with a shot gun there appears few options other than to let my dogs run free at night and I bet there's a law against that.

[Boogieman 1]

Knowing absolutely nothing about security devices or perimeter security I looked for a forum where I could ask a simple question and the response that I received was arrogant and insulting not a rant.

I thank you for the advice that there is a reason why there almost no cctv cameras with 940nm IR because its weak and pointless in almost all cases. Now I would like to find out if there is any way to cover the requirement I have in mind.

I do take offence when I receive the sort answers in the form that you offered. Good manners cost nothing. I did a more than quick Google search on the subject without finding the answer to my question other than the strange advice that to place notices where one sets up CCTV. I will now look for a security consultant who will offer a solution to my requirement which is to set up covert CCTV.

You did not do a google search. Please dont lie here. If you did a basic search you would find your answer. Heck, its been discussed on this forum multiple times.

"consultant" lol...

[larry 2]

I agree. Being called "silly" is not a proper response to a question no matter how many times it has been asked.

[Boogieman 1]

I agree. Being called "silly" is not a proper response to a question no matter how many times it has been asked.

No one called anyone silly. All that was said is that he is going about it in a "silly way" big difference. Are we all in third grade here? Everyone is looking for an excuse to be offended and complain to mods. They need to man up and take the proper advice that was given.

[larry 2]

I agree. Being called "silly" is not a proper response to a question no matter how many times it has been asked.

No one called anyone silly. All that was said is that he is going about it in a "silly way" big difference. Are we all in third grade here? Everyone is looking for an excuse to be offended and complain to mods. They need to man up and take the proper advice that was given.

 

Let's be honest here. Saying someone is approaching something in a "silly" manner is a passive aggressive way of inferring they are silly. We're not all in third grade but, I agree, someone still is.

[Boogieman 1]

I agree. Being called "silly" is not a proper response to a question no matter how many times it has been asked.

No one called anyone silly. All that was said is that he is going about it in a "silly way" big difference. Are we all in third grade here? Everyone is looking for an excuse to be offended and complain to mods. They need to man up and take the proper advice that was given.

 

Let's be honest here. Saying someone is approaching something in a "silly" manner is a passive aggressive way of inferring they are silly. We're not all in third grade but, I agree, someone still is.

No that is not the case and others agree with me. Its only offensive if you are looking to take offense. To many super fragile folks in this day and age. Read his post again, and you will see a pompous member who "believes" a bunch of nonsense. Remember this is a person who could not be bothered to do this http://lmgtfy.com/?q=security+camera+invisible+ir or this http://lmgtfy.com/?q=security+camera+hide+ir the latter of which would yield this website in the first result, then has the gall to tell us he did "more than a quick google search"...Please. The fact that the user contacted the mods because he felt so offended speaks volumes. Maybe there should be a safe space on the net for folks like him...

[the toss 0]

Boogie maybe you should edit your post and instead of saying "silly manner" change it to-

" conceited, unknowledgable, hasty, ill thought and non -productive manner"

Besides focusing on the wrong area of his problem , the OP is focusing on the wrong part of Boogies reply.

Quite honestly I'm surprised at Larry's lack of support to a long time contributor over such a petty grievence.

Goes to show that Political Correctness is alive & well. "Passive aggressive" - laughed my arse off.

[Boogieman 1]

Boogie maybe you should edit your post and instead of saying "silly manner" change it to-

" conceited, unknowledgable, hasty, ill thought and non -productive manner"

Besides focusing on the wrong area of his problem , the OP is focusing on the wrong part of Boogies reply.

Quite honestly I'm surprised at Larry's lack of support to a long time contributor over such a petty grievence.

Goes to show that Political Correctness is alive & well. "Passive aggressive" - laughed my arse off.

+1...could not have said it better myself.

[the toss 0]

Lucky Numbnuts didn't get hold of him

[jeromephone 6]

I often ask the customer if he wants to prevent the incident or wants to "catch the perp" the usual answer is both but a visible camera may be more of a deterrent as the prospective perp does not know what the camera can actually see. Also if you mess around with cameras for a while you will find that getting footage that will actually id someone is extremely rare. I have an friend who is a judge that admits that the footage they get is often not good enough to be admitted in evidence.

 

Your expert does not know what they are talking about as most cameras with IRs have the ability to shut them off and just use the day night function. this is done either with software or through physical setting on the camera.

[lights_out 0]

Greetings All - (new here),

 

I posted a question in another part of this site in November 2015 but, stumped everyone meaning received no replies. so, I am here as this topic is very close to current problem issue I have.

 

1) I have a cctv 48 ir exterior cam with sufficient and working power supplies and cable(s).

 

2) The cam board (1/4'' or 1/3'' Sony or Sharp) is working fine with no issues when detached (separated from ir board) or even when mated with ir board together with ir power disconnected.

 

3) The IR board is working fine when ir sensor is covered or brought into a dark environment and comes on when dark as it is supposed to. It works fine when powered up when detached/separated from cam board.

 

4) When both are connected mounted together or separated, when the ir board comes on the video picture is very distorted.

 

It would almost seem obvious that everything points to the IR board even though it comes on and appears to be visually functioning normally.

 

Could the IR board be "injecting" the distortion back into the video cam board causing the video distortion? Would appreciate anyone responding to this or, with similar issues. Thanks.

[lights_out 0]

.........anyone?

[the toss 0]

"Distortion" could mean 1000 different things. Describe the "distortion"

[lights_out 0]

"Distortion" could mean 1000 different things. Describe the "distortion"

 

*********************

 

Thanks for the reply! It is a bit hard to explain but, I'll try. When low light (evenings/darkness) is present, the camera video picture gets distorted which looks like an almost all white screen with horizontal lines and which makes the video impossible to view. When very low light and IR board "active", the picture will flicker a bit on it's way to the IR board coming "all the way on" which then will turn the video almost white. It is the revers when the sun comes up so-to-speak. The attached pict is the cam video on it's way to being completely "gone". The cam works fine w/out the IR board being connected when in sufficient light and with the IR board connected.

[Daryl733 0]

Your camera or the cabling is faulty. Get it check out.

 

How come no one suggested putting a separate IR illuminater in a separate location and disabling the camera's inbuilt IR (or chose a model that doesn't have ir filter and ir inbuilt ? In that case, you can even hid the camera, no light from there. IR Light source totally from another source which could be in a separate location.

 

Also, choosing those wavelength can't be seen by human eyes is no help to conceal the camera location. NVG or another IR camera would pick up the IR light light a bright torchlight shining your way (since we are going the direction that the bugler is through). Some HP camera will also pick it up depending on their camera design if it comes with the ir fliter inbuilt.

Also, camera can't see what is conceal. So if intruder wear a hood/mask to conceal the face, you can't see through it as well.

 

What about intruder cutting off the power supply ? Then you got to put in UPS.

 

What about the intruder removing the DVR/Recording device ? Then you got to either put strong box to prevent them from doing so.

 

What about the intruder cutting through strong box and removing it or set fire to the system ? Then you got to provide for alternate recording site, maybe through internet.

 

What about intruder cutting your internet line ? Then you got to have multiple WAN connection, maybe backup with 4G conncetion.

 

What about intruder using a 4G Jammer to jam the wireless network connection ? ...... The list goes on.

 

Anything is possible, what's your budget ?

If you are looking into security, then you got to consider the 3DR of security. There have to be a response to the intrusion. Anything else is just to deter, detect and delay for your response. If there's no response, no matter what you put in, they can be defeated given sufficient amount of time.