BNC dimensions different from RG59 cable.

[jweaver 0]

I am in the process of installing a "analogue" CCTV system and have sourced some RG59 cable.

 

When I bought it, I noticed that it said "0.81mm" inner core but thought nothing of it... Bu when it arrived I found that the centre pin was too fat for my BNCs.

 

Looking at other cables, some is 0.56 (And I have even seen mention of 0.61 and 0.7).

 

I tried to find the spec of RG59 to find out whats right and wrong, and some manufacturers say the core is AWG20 (0.81mm) and others AWG23 (0.56mm)...

 

I am now wondering if this is the difference between RG59/U and RG59B/U?

 

Problem now is that every supplier I have tried (in the UK) has BNCs that fit the smaller 0.56mm cable. I havn't found a single supplier of the ones I need.

 

What should I do? Should I scrap the cable and buy some with the thinner core? Or is there another spec of BNC I could look at?

 

Jon

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. You could use twist on BNC connectors.

 

Or you could find BNC that come with 2 different pin sizes

[jweaver 0]

Hi. You could use twist on BNC connectors.

 

Or you could find BNC that come with 2 different pin sizes

 

I dont really want twist on connectors.. And i cant find any BNCs that come wih the pin i need, let alone 2 pins.

 

I just dont get it.. After looking around, approx 50% of the RG59 on sale, has the AWG20 (0.81mm) core.. So why are BNCs so hard to find?

[myiicu 0]

For RG59/U 20AWG solid 0.032" (0.8128mm) bare copper conductor is normal.

 

Good BNC compression = Belden FSNS59BNCSL

https://www.belden.com/resourcecenter/tools/upload/Belden-Cable-to-Connector-X-Ref-Feb-2013-2-pdf.pdf

 

Good BNC crimp = Amphenol 31-71008-1RFX

http://www.amphenolrf.com/downloads/dl/file/id/69/product/696/031_71008_1rfx_customer_drawing.pdf

[jweaver 0]

For RG59/U 20AWG solid 0.032" (0.8128mm) bare copper conductor is normal.

 

Good BNC compression = Belden FSNS59BNCSL

https://www.belden.com/resourcecenter/tools/upload/Belden-Cable-to-Connector-X-Ref-Feb-2013-2-pdf.pdf

 

Good BNC crimp = Amphenol 31-71008-1RFX

http://www.amphenolrf.com/downloads/dl/file/id/69/product/696/031_71008_1rfx_customer_drawing.pdf

 

Cheers.. I got the feeling that RG59/U was 20AWG, and RG59B/U was 23AWG

 

Problem is, all of the suppliers in the UK I have found selling BNCs, seem to be for 23AWG..

 

I have no doubt that I could find more expensive BNCs that will fit.. But the cost of these, would be more, than simply buying some RG59B/U and some of the cheap BNCs I have found!

 

Jon

[myiicu 0]

That 23AWG conductor is sometimes CCS (copper coated steel)...

[myiicu 0]

Amphenol 31-71008-1RFX 1pcs= £1.34ea

Amphenol 31-71008-1RFX 10pcs= £1.16ea

 

http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Amphenol-RF/31-71008-1RFX/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuLQf%252bEuFsOrroVYjFZ0vasJlazSUSz8HY%3D

[survtech 0]

That 23AWG conductor is sometimes CCS (copper coated steel)...

Sorry, that's wrong. In the U.S., most RG59 for CCTV is 20 gauge center conductor, whether it's solid copper or CCS. The most (in)famous manufacturer of 23 gauge RG59 is Belden.

[myiicu 0]

That 23AWG conductor is sometimes CCS (copper coated steel)...

Sorry, that's wrong. In the U.S., most RG59 for CCTV is 20 gauge center conductor, whether it's solid copper or CCS. The most (in)famous manufacturer of 23 gauge RG59 is Belden.

 

Informed the OP that 20AWG is normal...

 

For RG59/U 20AWG solid 0.032" (0.8128mm) bare copper conductor is normal.

 

Good BNC compression = Belden FSNS59BNCSL

https://www.belden.com/resourcecenter/tools/upload/Belden-Cable-to-Connector-X-Ref-Feb-2013-2-pdf.pdf

 

Good BNC crimp = Amphenol 31-71008-1RFX

http://www.amphenolrf.com/downloads/dl/file/id/69/product/696/031_71008_1rfx_customer_drawing.pdf

 

Informed the OP that cheap RG59 23AWG could be CCS (copper coated steel)...

 

That 23AWG conductor is sometimes CCS (copper coated steel)...

[survtech 0]

Informed the OP that cheap RG59 23AWG could be CCS (copper coated steel)...

 

That 23AWG conductor is sometimes CCS (copper coated steel)...

Maybe, except the one doesn't prove the other. There's plenty of (cheap) 20 gauge CCS RG59 coax out there.

[myiicu 0]

I have been making my own BNC cables for almost 40 years.

Back in the day, when copper was cheap, the center conductor was 100% copper.

Belden was the king of coaxial and there was almost no competition.

 

Today, Belden has followed the herd and also manufacture coaxial with CCS (copper coated steel) conductor.

If you can't beat them, better join them I guess??

 

Also, Rubbermaid (a brand that used to be known for quality) has followed the herd with crap quality plastic to compete.

 

 

When purchasing RG59/U coaxial cable, I recommend testing the center conductor with magnet and scraping/sanding/filing to make sure that you are getting 100% copper...

[jweaver 0]

To give you an update.. I found a CCTV/Aerial wholesaler locally who sold BNCs that fit the AWG20 RG59 i have.

 

But following your comments above, i just checked mine and you are correct.. Its is a steel core.

 

How bad is this? Considering imam running 100m of the stuff next week, is it worth me trying to source some "copper" cored stuff.. Or is steel acceptible these days?

 

All of my runs are in a roof space, so they will be subjected to cold and damp, but not wet conditions..

 

Jon

[tomcctv 190]

To give you an update.. I found a CCTV/Aerial wholesaler locally who sold BNCs that fit the AWG20 RG59 i have.

 

But following your comments above, i just checked mine and you are correct.. Its is a steel core.

 

How bad is this? Considering imam running 100m of the stuff next week, is it worth me trying to source some "copper" cored stuff.. Or is steel acceptible these days?

 

All of my runs are in a roof space, so they will be subjected to cold and damp, but not wet conditions..

 

Jon

 

 

Copper would be best ..... If you can't get good rg59 look at cat5 cable

[jweaver 0]

To give you an update.. I found a CCTV/Aerial wholesaler locally who sold BNCs that fit the AWG20 RG59 i have.

 

But following your comments above, i just checked mine and you are correct.. Its is a steel core.

 

How bad is this? Considering imam running 100m of the stuff next week, is it worth me trying to source some "copper" cored stuff.. Or is steel acceptible these days?

 

All of my runs are in a roof space, so they will be subjected to cold and damp, but not wet conditions..

 

Jon

 

 

Copper would be best ..... If you can't get good rg59 look at cat5 cable

 

My dilema now is that i yave the cable and i have te BNCs and need to start the install on Monday (as i have a week off to do it). I dont have anywhere locally to supply bew Coax and certainly not Baluns.. So i am pretty stuffed.

 

Considering all my runs are less than 20m, is CCS really going to cause a problem?

 

Jon

[survtech 0]

Belden was the king of coaxial and there was almost no competition.

 

Today, Belden has followed the herd and also manufacture coaxial with CCS (copper coated steel) conductor.

If you can't beat them, better join them I guess??

Actually, Belden makes and has made so many different coaxial cables and cable combinations that their catalog was always bewildering in its breadth and complexity. They have had CCS RG59 cable in their catalog for at least as long as I've been involved with electronics (1967), specifically for RF use like TV antennas and drop cables.

 

So they haven't followed anyone. Different cables for different applications - and they have always had so many different cables. For instance, in RG59 alone, they produce at least 98 CCS and 120 Bare Copper RG59 cables.

 

When purchasing RG59/U coaxial cable, I recommend testing the center conductor with magnet and scraping/sanding/filing to make sure that you are getting 100% copper...

Actually an excellent idea when the manufacturer is unknown or suspect. Copper-clad (or coated) steel is also a lot "stiffer" than pure copper.

[Securame 0]

Considering all my runs are less than 20m, is CCS really going to cause a problem?

 

You shouldn't have any problems.

[tomcctv 190]

To give you an update.. I found a CCTV/Aerial wholesaler locally who sold BNCs that fit the AWG20 RG59 i have.

 

But following your comments above, i just checked mine and you are correct.. Its is a steel core.

 

How bad is this? Considering imam running 100m of the stuff next week, is it worth me trying to source some "copper" cored stuff.. Or is steel acceptible these days?

 

All of my runs are in a roof space, so they will be subjected to cold and damp, but not wet conditions..

 

Jon

 

Depends also on which camera format you are using .

 

Which part of uk are you

 

 

Copper would be best ..... If you can't get good rg59 look at cat5 cable

 

My dilema now is that i yave the cable and i have te BNCs and need to start the install on Monday (as i have a week off to do it). I dont have anywhere locally to supply bew Coax and certainly not Baluns.. So i am pretty stuffed.

 

Considering all my runs are less than 20m, is CCS really going to cause a problem?

 

Jon

[jweaver 0]

I rang various suppliers today and also mailed a random selection of eBay sellers and everyone stocks CCS or CCA cable.

 

I think i am just going to go with what i have.... At 10-20m i just cant see there will be a problem with CCS.

[tomcctv 190]

I rang various suppliers today and also mailed a random selection of eBay sellers and everyone stocks CCS or CCA cable.

 

I think i am just going to go with what i have.... At 10-20m i just cant see there will be a problem with CCS.

 

 

It depends on what CCTV format you are going ....... Use crap coax with tvi or cvi and you will have quality problems .

 

City electrical factors have good coax

 

But if you give your location

[jweaver 0]

I rang various suppliers today and also mailed a random selection of eBay sellers and everyone stocks CCS or CCA cable.

 

I think i am just going to go with what i have.... At 10-20m i just cant see there will be a problem with CCS.

 

 

It depends on what CCTV format you are going ....... Use crap coax with tvi or cvi and you will have quality problems .

 

City electrical factors have good coax

 

But if you give your location

 

CEF is a possibility.. I am Newport, South Wales and there is a CEF close buy.. But with no account and no access to their "discounts" its not going to be cheap.

 

Interestingly I spoke to my friend today who designed and builds antenna for the military.. And his view is this talk of CCS, CCA and Pure Copper is non-sense for the frequencies involved, the application and the distances.

 

At 400mhz, the wavelength is 37m.. So in my runs of 10-20m, the cable will effectively contain 1/3-1/2 of ONE wave, so essentially DC..

 

But.. I am not sure I want to take the risk, so am going to pop down to CEF to see what they can do.

 

Which of these is "good" coax:

 

http://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/1255371-security-rg59-and-2-core-power-cable-100m

http://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/3895134-100m-rg59-shotgun-cable

 

Jon

 

Edit: They don't have stock of the Phelix.. And the Facina is £48 per drum..

[tomcctv 190]

Facina RG59 CCTV Is the one to get.

 

The other has coated power

[jweaver 0]

After putting a call into my Radio Ham colleague in work, who I would argue knows more about Radio Principals that the vast majority of the planet and his view is that CCS is fine for this application, especially consideriong my 10-20m runs.

 

So I am going to stick with what I have.. If it doens't work out, then I will gladly eat humble pie.. But I have it on good authority from 2 experts in their field that there is nothing wrong with the cable I have.

[tomcctv 190]

After putting a call into my Radio Ham colleague in work, who I would argue knows more about Radio Principals that the vast majority of the planet and his view is that CCS is fine for this application, especially consideriong my 10-20m runs.

 

So I am going to stick with what I have.. If it doens't work out, then I will gladly eat humble pie.. But I have it on good authority from 2 experts in their field that there is nothing wrong with the cable I have.

 

 

Experts in 50ohm not 75 were copper is best .

 

You still have not said which format your cameras are

 

Unlike you ham experts I have over 30 years and I would still look into cat5

 

First it's cheaper as you get 4 cameras down one cable plus a year or so you might want better once you have CCTV and cat5 runs all formats

[captainvideo 0]

Wherever you bought the siamese cable from should also have compatible compression ends .

[jweaver 0]

After putting a call into my Radio Ham colleague in work, who I would argue knows more about Radio Principals that the vast majority of the planet and his view is that CCS is fine for this application, especially consideriong my 10-20m runs.

 

So I am going to stick with what I have.. If it doens't work out, then I will gladly eat humble pie.. But I have it on good authority from 2 experts in their field that there is nothing wrong with the cable I have.

 

 

Experts in 50ohm not 75 were copper is best .

 

You still have not said which format your cameras are

 

Unlike you ham experts I have over 30 years and I would still look into cat5

 

First it's cheaper as you get 4 cameras down one cable plus a year or so you might want better once you have CCTV and cat5 runs all formats

 

Sorry.. I should have said, its Hikvision and therefore TVI...

 

First of all, I am not saying that copper is NOT best.. Of course it is, certainly better than CCA and CCS cables.. I am just saying that my 2 "expert" friends do not believe that this will be a problem for 7-15m runs (I have done some measurements and they are even shorter than I thought).. Their view is that at these sort of lenghts it won't matter..

 

I also do not doubt that CAT5 is better.. And in truth, I have more CAT5 than I know what to do with it (as I work in IP).. But the additional costs of baluns put me off.

 

I just preferred COAX as it just feels stronger.. Since my DVR is in the airing cupboard, I just felt that it was easy to put strain on the cables and felt that a Coax and BNC felt better for my application.. But since all my cabling is in a loft space with 20mm holes into the eaves, I could so easily pull CAT5 through in a matter of minutes if I wanted too.

 

So I am stuck with COAX now, even if I wanted to change, its too late as I can't get the CAT5 from work, and the cost of Baluns would be 2x the cost of COAX.

 

With hindsight, I would have ordered some Baluns from China (Which cost £1 per pair (not sure if they are any good)) and would have done the whole thing in CAT5... But its too late for that now.. I am commited.

 

Jon

Edited April 11, 2016 by Guest