Help with selecting system type based on limited internet

[lukeduke02 0]

Hello everyone,

Very new to home security, and my brain is about to explode, so I just need a few basic questions answered. I've sifted through lots of information online and am even more confused at this point.

 

Will be moving to a place that is in a small town, but is set back from the road and is secluded. No neighbors to keep an eye on things while at work or on vacation. It is a larger property/house (property is about 2 acres, and house is 3000sq ft). I was looking at a total of 6-8 cameras no cover all the entries and the driveway. IP/ cat5e wiring was what I was considering. Was looking at the Lorex 1080P or 3MP camera systems.

 

Our options for internet providers is pretty much limited to DSL, which they tell us would be UP TO 20mbps... but no guarantees.

 

I'd like to be able to review triggered events remotely on my smart phone, but don't intend to constantly monitor remotely.

 

The biggest thing I'm confused about is IP cameras and them requiring bandwith/internet connection.

Correct me if I'm wrong;

Using a bandwith calculator;

I understand that they will take up about ~5 mbps upload speed per camera to monitor remotely.

So, if I only have 20mbps internet service, I can only do about 3 cameras viewing remotely.

 

BUT, I don't know or understand if this is applies to wanting to just record locally to an NVR - if it still takes up that much bandwith.

If so, what are my solutions for getting my 6-8 camera ideal monitoring with the limitations on internet speed?

If not, then what does it take to run each camera if just recording locally and not viewing remotely? Does it use internet data? If so, how much per camera average?

 

I know this probably seems dumb, but I just can't find these answers, or don't know what to look for in search of these answers.

I hope these questions make sense,

 

Thank so much.

[Daryl733 0]

I don't think you can get up to 20Mbps UPLOAD/Upstream speed from a ADSL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_digital_subscriber_line

Max, as listed here, is only 3.3 - 3.5Mbps.

 

For you to SEND(UPLOAD) video to the internet for you to View (DOWNLOAD) somewhere else, you should be looking at the upload bandwidth of your internet connection your CCTV System is connected to. Your ISP prob tell you the MAX DOWNLOAD speed for their line.

 

For a more realistic bandwidth of your current connection, visit one of those many speed checking sites, e.g. http://www.speedtest.net and run a test from the connection you want to test.

It'll tell you your current Download and UPLOAD bandwidth. Take not of the Upload bandwidth.

 

Get a System that supports at least a Dual Stream.

It'll enable you to stream through at a lower bitrate that's supported by your connection while recording at higher bitrate.

As for event trigger, you may want to look at a system with more advance video analytic such as line crossing, intrusion detection rather than just Video motion triggered.

All will generate alarms throughout the day, but line crossing and intrusion detection would generate less false alarm than pure Video Motion Detection.

 

I normally don't advice push alerts based on pure video analytic as unless the environment is a controlled environment, you'll get fair amount of push alert on a daily basis. Most people switched that off after a short while as they get spammed by overwhelming alerts.

Flapping curtain, car light shinning into the house, lighting, moving shadows cast by objects, swaying trees are things that might trigger the alarm.

Yes, they are a lot more accurate now than last time, even a couple of false alarm everyday is a couple too much after a while and people start to ignore them.

 

And don't get Alarm System and CCTV mixed up. They monitor different things and are meant for different functionality.

[lukeduke02 0]

Daryl,

Thanks for your information, I appreciate it, as well as the response time.

 

I'll have to question them more on the speed for the DSL

 

Breaking it down, so I understand correctly - the speed requirements for CCTV is going to be based on upload speed, not download speed?

If that is the case, then even in my current location - (big city with cable internet - download speed of 50mbps and upload of 12mbps) wouldnt even allow me to have a 6-8 camera system.... right?

 

I'd love to have my original question answered -

BUT, I don't know or understand if this is applies to wanting to just record locally to an NVR - if it still takes up that much bandwith.

If so, what are my solutions for getting my 6-8 camera ideal monitoring with the limitations on internet speed?

If not, then what does it take to run each camera if just recording locally and not viewing remotely? Does it use internet data? If so, how much per camera average?

 

 

With the line crossing or intrusion detection - doing a quick read, these may be above my skill and understanding - as well as a bosch camera with the line crossing integrated is about $1200 itself. There may be seperate systems you can integrate into an existing camera - but I didn't see it on the first two pages of a google search.

 

We will have a home security system (door alarms, internal motion detection, glass break) by guardian. I wanted to have a separate camera system I had control over, so "big brother" wasn't watching.

 

If you could answer the question I asked about what my camera systems would be with limited internet etc I'd greatly appreciate that.

 

Take care

Thanks again

[zr1 0]

For recording, the internet speed doesn't matter.

The cameras and NVR can record at their highest settings if you want on the Local Area Network (LAN). Whether the Cat5e/6 wire from the camera goes back to the NVR directly or you have switches on your LAN (simply use Gigabit switches and you'll have plenty of LAN bandwidth).

 

For the internet part of it...

Most systems already have a function called a substream to send a much-lower bandwidth video portion to the internet connection. Whether by remoting in from another computer or via smartphone/tablet. So even a lowly 3G-cellular connection could handle spot-checking or remote monitoring. Even a low-512Kbps DSL would be just fine for that.

 

And if you wanted to (from remote) you could simply click on the Full-Stream button/option to give you the high-detailed version, it just lowers the frame rate. (Some newer systems have 3-tiers of full-stream/sub-stream/mobile-device stream...and you can customize all those bandwidth numbers on many systems tailored to your internet connection.

Also remotely, you could download the recorded video to you whenever you wanted, the internet speed would affect that.

 

But for local recording?

The internet speed doesn't matter.

And I'd still go IP cameras/NVR whenever I could on a new system.

 

I have solar-powered systems on cellular that record fantastic locally and I simply spot-check them as needed.

I have some solar-powered systems way out in the middle of nowhere that record away even where there's no internet/cell service. And for those, I gotta drive out there to get the recording (what we used to call "sneaker-net" back in the day...hehe)

[Daryl733 0]

Get a System that supports at least a Dual Stream.

It'll enable you to stream through at a lower bitrate that's supported by your connection while recording at higher bitrate.

 

What you may also wish to consider before recording at highest possible bitrate.

1. Space required. Higher bitrate means less recording period with the same HDD storage.

2. If you record each camera more than your upload bandwidth, you'll have problem viewing RECORDED footage through internet.

Means if you think something happens 1 hour ago and you wish to playback the recording, you'll face difficulty to playback over the internet. You'll need to get back home to playback over LAN.

 

With the line crossing or intrusion detection - doing a quick read, these may be above my skill and understanding - as well as a bosch camera with the line crossing integrated is about $1200 itself. There may be seperate systems you can integrate into an existing camera - but I didn't see it on the first two pages of a google search.

Some entry level system, e.g. HIKVISION HD-TVI DVR also support line crossing/intrusion detection video analytic.

[lukeduke02 0]

Thank you both

 

Thank you so much for the quick reply and the information - this is what I was hoping to hear - thank you!

 

It seems like I can still do the ip cat5/6 (not sure what the difference is between 5/6 but I'll look into that) and have a great system locally and spot check or check the alerts remotely.

 

Could always consider a secure remote viewing application on the PC it is attached to, log in through the remote viewing app (something like teamviewer) where not playing the footage remotely, but logged into the computer remotely and playing the footage locally. This may reduce quality and such though. Also may not work like I'm imagining - just an idea

 

Now my job is to try to decide which system to go with.

Lorex and swann are the readily available systems that seem consumer friendly.

Happy to take brand suggestions here for ease if someone is reading and want to reply quickly, but also understand I can sift through that stuff here in the forums

 

Thanks

Edited May 9, 2016 by Guest

[Daryl733 0]

Can't really recommend brand as I am located in Singapore.

 

Product pricing are also different here and there for the same products.

It really depends on what is available and the support level for each of the different brand in your own locality.