NVR Software - Expensive

[ak357 0]

 

Don't expect respect if you don't give it.

Hmm, I did send u few PM

looks like u are not checking your PM

[ssmith10pn 0]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Avigilon+Sales+Locator

[TheWigglerSpot 0]

I've tried every NVR program I have been able to find for Windows. If I could find a quality tool in a paid version, even if it cost a thousand dollars - perhaps even a little more than that - I would buy it but, in my opinion, they're all crap.

 

Of all the programs I have tried, Blue Iris, by very far, had the worst performance. On my older PC that ran every other program I tried fairly well, Blue Iris would use 100% CPU. I built a new i7 quad core box and Blue Iris would run on it but would use 30% CPU utilization with just 2 cameras at 3MP. I stopped testing at about 47% utilization with 4 cameras. There were several apps I tried that run 13 cameras under 20% and one even under 10% CPU utilization so Blue Iris went completely off my list. Now I'm using a dual-xeon, 8 cores per CPU (plus hyperthreading for a total of 32 threads) with 128GB RAM but I'm not even going to try Blue Iris on it.

 

I tried Avigilon and found it's UI to be very unusual. It's not like it's unworkable; it's just not what you'd expect. The way it boxes various cameras on the screen seemed pretty unintuitive based on my experience but it did work. Perhaps, over time, I would get used to the UI and even understand the value in why they built the UI the way they did. The problem I had was that it still used more CPU than the best of what I tried but it took everything I threw at it in the way of cameras and demand on those cameras without missing a beat. I was impressed enough that I was about to buy it but I had just a couple questions before I made the commitment. Since I was using the trial version, neither Avigilon nor the dealers would help to answer my question. That proved to me that I would continue to get poor service. As a home user, once I bought the app once they have no expectation to ever get any more money from me so why would they care to support me? I took them off my list.

 

I wanted to try IPCENT. Their package looked pretty good but you have to buy it through the Windows Store for Windows 8 and above - it doesn't work with Windows 7. I don't buy from the Windows Store because I refuse to give Microsoft my personally identifiable information so I can purchase products from places that are not Microsoft. And I hate the metro app look and feel.

 

I tried the Hikvision software - free with Hikvision cameras but many Hikvision compatibles are available and they ship the software as well. It works pretty well. I don't like the way it treats every camera as a possible multi-camera recorder or server so every camera has to go in a folder. Adding the cameras is pretty spotty; sometimes it will only add the first camera and won't remember any future cameras. I've had to upgrade the software a few times to get to a reliable place but it seems ok now. Now that it is working, it's been rock solid, as have been the cameras. The problem with Hikvision is that it is the second highest CPU utilization - but still less than half of Blue Iris. There are two processes. The process that is labeled Hikvision uses only a percent or two but there's a server process running that the Hikvision process is dependent on that, with my 13 cameras, uses up to 30% CPU. That's not terrible and if I didn't know there were many apps that do so much better I would have been very happy with the Hikvision software.

 

The very best performing software is free UC software that comes with several brands of Chinese imports based on the TI-365/368 chipset. I'v run all 6 of my compatible cameras - and as many as 9 when I had others on the bench, testing for a different location, and most at 3MP, full record, with under 10% CPU utilization. The problem with UC is that it doesn't work with anyone else's cameras. Hikvision has this problem but I'm not averse to going all Hikvision or Hikvision compatible. So if you buy the cameras UC works with, it may be the best performing but it's a struggle to get email and ftp working. Otherwise, and other than the ugly green borders, this is a great app. But I didn't want to be tied to one brand no matter what the brand. No one maker has all the camera types I want at any price. So I'm working on replacing my UC compatible cameras as they fail (3 years old before the first one did) or when I just feel like replacing one with a HUISUN PTZ.

 

There were a few other high-end apps I used that I tossed out, the names of which escape me for now.

 

The best, overall, of the free apps that came with the various camera brands is one simply named CMS published by JuFeng. I got it with a Sunba speed dome. CMS takes any ONVIF camera I have thrown at it. It has a limitation that it can only display 1080p max resolution but for monitoring that's fine. That means, though, that I need to use my other recorders and I don't use CMS for recording. What I haven't tried is displaying 1080p or less but trying to record at full resolution. I haven't tried because I have several other recorders already. It might work in which case this would be even better. My opinion, though, is that I don't record where I watch because a criminal may see where I watch. If he steals the PC running my monitoring software then he's stolen the recording. Viewing and recording are always separate tasks for me though you could use the viewing station as tertiary or other recording. This is what I use at about half of my monitoring stations.

 

I've also used Synology Surveillance Station. If you turn the NAS on to record cameras and leave it alone, it mostly works. A neighbor asked me once if I had caught anything on my camera after their car had been broken into and when I checked I found my Synology had dropped the connection to all three cameras at that location without notification. I didn't even realize I had no recording there. I quit buying the silly per-camera licenses and have quit using Surveillance station on all 4 of my Synology devices. I use them for NAS storage only and let PCs record to them as tertiary recording - never primary or secondary. The ActiveX based web client for Synology runs at about 80% CPU utilization with just 8 cameras. I quit using it for monitoring before testing beyond that. I don't recommend Synology almost as much as I don't recommend Blue Iris.

 

There is a very big surprise, to me at least, in the NVR space - both recording and monitoring. There's a mini-nvr thread, or threads, here about some under-100 dollar mini NVRs. I think I paid about 65 dollars each for the several I have. I've tested the 16-channel version with up to only 13 cameras - which is all I have needed them for. They record great to the 2TB internal 2.5" drive (sold extra) and I have read where people use them with eSata or USB drives; I haven't tried it. The IE app works with or without ActiveX. I've had it running over a month at a time without any hickups. The only thing that makes it stop is me stopping it to do something on one of the PCs. I use them for secondary and tertiary recording in multiple locations. Honestly, either with a direct connect computer monitor, keyboard, and mouse, or as a remote connection by PC with IE for viewing, this is a great and inexpensive option for viewing and recording your cameras.

 

I hope this helps some readers in choosing a suitable solution for them.

 

This is one of the best pieces of info I've ever seen on NVR software.

 

I will say that a lot of the app criticism you see ("spinning", "blank / black view") is due to the nature of the network the app is on.

 

I've spent a lot of time researching NVR software as I only want to do this once and I want to do it right, and it all seems to suck pretty bad, at least the SOHO/Home stuff, and maybe the commercial stuff as well.

 

What version of Surveillance Station were you running? It shouldn't require constant monitoring and if the NVR loses the lease or whatever with one of the cameras, it should have multiple streams to inform the license holder, user.

 

I have little first hand experience, but I am sure from what I have read and your experiences, that NVR and remote viewing software collectively sucks really bad.

[thewireguys 3]

 

I have little first hand experience, but I am sure from what I have read and your experiences, that NVR and remote viewing software collectively sucks really bad.

 

I have a lot of experience with many professional VMS platforms and IP cameras. There is very good software on the market you just need to figure out which platform is right for you.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Guest

[ak357 0]

 

This is one of the best pieces of info I've ever seen on NVR software.

 

I will say that a lot of the app criticism you see ("spinning", "blank / black view") is due to the nature of the network the app is on.

 

I've spent a lot of time researching NVR software as I only want to do this once and I want to do it right, and it all seems to suck pretty bad, at least the SOHO/Home stuff, and maybe the commercial stuff as well.

Which VMS/NVR software did you pick?

just curios

[LittleScoobyMaster 0]

This is one of the best pieces of info I've ever seen on NVR software.

 

I will say that a lot of the app criticism you see ("spinning", "blank / black view") is due to the nature of the network the app is on.

 

I've spent a lot of time researching NVR software as I only want to do this once and I want to do it right, and it all seems to suck pretty bad, at least the SOHO/Home stuff, and maybe the commercial stuff as well.

 

What version of Surveillance Station were you running? It shouldn't require constant monitoring and if the NVR loses the lease or whatever with one of the cameras, it should have multiple streams to inform the license holder, user.

 

I have little first hand experience, but I am sure from what I have read and your experiences, that NVR and remote viewing software collectively sucks really bad.

 

I would agree that the info from the previous posts about the sad state of NVR and VMS is pretty accurate.

 

I've been using Geovision solutions for 15 years and my thought this whole time over the past 15 years has always been, there HAS to be something better.

 

And so I've tried other packages, and they all contain the same amount of suckage. The UI in Geo is horrid, and it has been forever. And most other packages are the same exact way. Geo finally started to improve their UI in GV-VMS, but it's been over 10 years too late.

 

The problem is that the surveillance sector has been and always will be light years behind the IT sector.

 

I think that's just one of the reasons the DVR's are such crap. (They're still playing catch-up).

 

Finally at least with high resolution cams, the industry is almost starting to act like a regular IT company, but they still aren't there.

 

Just as an example, one of my first Geovision capture cards was a GV-650b. That card remained at the same speeds for over a decade.

 

Imagine for a moment, if a video card manufacturer like Nvidia or AMD would have had the same speed video card for over 10 years without improving it, but instead, only switching it from PC bus to PC bus. GV-650 started out with the old ISA bus, and then I believe they moved to Vesa Local Bus, and then they went to PCI. The whole time, the card itself remained the crazy slow FPS capture speed forever because the industry allowed it to happen (not just the 650, but almost their entire range of capture cards). I used to monitor the prices daily \ weekly \ yearly, and they rarely improved in performance. Progress in the surveillance industry was crazy slow. It seemed liked forever that the hardware cards for DVR's were stuck at ridiculous slow capture speeds.

 

Anyway, hopefully the software starts to come of age this decade. (performance, UI, cost value, etc.)

 

Milestone seems to be showing some hope, but, they haven't even added GPU decoding for Nvidia cards yet. Geo actually beat Milestone to the punch on that because GV-VMS had GPU decoding for Nvidia cards since February of this year. Milestone still hasn't added it for Nvidia cards, but hopefully will soon. They added it for Intel GPU's.

 

GPU decoding seems to really help with the CPU destruction some of these NVR / VMS packages commit. You'd think that the packages were rendering fantastic looking virtual worlds or something the way they chew on the CPU.

[ssmith10pn 0]

I have some GV capture cards if you want them. PM me and I'll get you the models.

[LittleScoobyMaster 0]

I have some GV capture cards if you want them. PM me and I'll get you the models.

 

Are they mostly still selling the capture cards for people with the older analog systems?

 

I converted all my cameras to IP a while back but I am curious what the going rate is for the Geovision upgrade from GV-NVR to GV-VMS for 3rd party cameras.

[ssmith10pn 0]

I have some GV capture cards if you want them. PM me and I'll get you the models.

 

Are they mostly still selling the capture cards for people with the older analog systems?

 

I converted all my cameras to IP a while back but I am curious what the going rate is for the Geovision upgrade from GV-NVR to GV-VMS for 3rd party cameras.

 

I haven't messed with GV in years. The way they did it back then is the license would be on a USB dongle. I think it was 100.00 for an 8 channel license. That's just a guess really. It's been 7 years.

[jrmymllr 0]

I've been trying to find decent NVR software, but it's just too expensive. I'd much rather it run on Linux, but if necessary I can create a VM for Windows.

 

ExacqVision runs on Linux, but only runs on Debian (not RedHat), but crucially is only 32bit. Plus not only is there a base fee, but annual per-camera licenses. Milestone only runs on Winduhs, and it also has a base fee, but annual per-camera licenses. HikVision are clearly incompetent at making NVR software.

 

Are there any quality NVR systems that don't have per-camera or per-year license fees? This is just for my 2 camera house, and maybe also for my 2 camera car.

 

Get Xeoma. Runs on Linux, Windows, Mac, and a 4 cam license will cost you $20 period. I've been using it and it does its thing well enough.

[shtumpa 0]

Synology Surveillance Station, Two friends of mine and i also use it for just recording and have done for over a year, it has been flawless, never had an issue..

[dalepres 0]

Very useful, comprehensive, and helpful post dalepres. This is unusual, but matches my type of posts when I've studied a subject. I'm also one who has to learn everything about everything before I do anything, but you've saved me alot here.

 

Well, either wireguys and ak357 websites have malfunctioned, or they both have too much business to have responded, I'll move on.

 

I've heard that Hik's software is obtuse so I didn't bother, but now I'll try it. But first I will try https://ksenos.fi/ and http://www.networkoptix.com/nxwitness/#connect to see how they behave. I'll let you know.

 

 

I would take everything dalepres says with a HUGE grain of salt, regrading all the vms options he mentions. He obviously did not test them properly. All I see is user error.

Here is just one example. He never states the "i7" he used with blue iris or whether he set it up properly. There is a huge variations between i7 processors. He also did not build an i7 box. He bought an i7 laptop.By reading the blue iris help file, he would learn that you must set the cameras to record direct to disc (which doesnt rencode the video) if you are using high res cams. Blue iris also supports hardware acceleration when used with intel HD graphics that support quicksync. He states he was hitting 30 percent utilization with only 2 3mp cameras. Well then how am I getting 22 percent on an i7-4770 system with 7x3mp dahuas, 3x2mp hikvisions and one cheap vga camera. Is it magic? I get similar results with my many other systems.

So, bottom line is his "reviews" are worthless. This includes his "review" of Avignon - a great piece of software. Its unfortunate that incompetent users leave baseless "reviews".

 

 

Just came back looking for my post to link for someone looking for info on VMS software and saw this. I'm just curious if I stole your girlfriend in a previous life or something? I don't understand why you respond to virtually everything I post with personal attacks and, quite honestly, very uninformed attacks.

 

You focused on my i7 laptop and totally ignored that I have similar results using dual 8-core Xeons (e5-2630 V3).

 

EDIT: Also, just reread to understand what you were saying that I didn't build a new i7 box. I'm just curious? Do you have cameras in my house? Are you my wife posting under an assumed name? How do you know what I built or didn't build? I did buy a new i7 laptop in May of 2015. In November of 2015 I built a new i7 desktop using an i7-4770R. In March of 2016, I built a dual 8-core Xeon server using two e5-2630 V3s. I had similar results on every single one of them: Blue Iris used significantly more CPU for 2 cameras than any other software with many more cameras. HikVision was always the 2nd worse for CPU utilization but much, much, better than Blue Iris. CMS was better than HikVision, and UC2 was, by far, the best. I don't remember at this point what the CPU was on others except to say they were between UC2 and Blue Iris. This week I tried SoleraTec and found it to be in the same neighborhood as HikVision. So talk about unsubstantiated comments - yours are pure unsubstantiated attacks.

 

I've tried Blue Iris in many different configurations and, always, it consumes significantly more CPU, with just two cameras, than every other VMS I have tested with from 6 to 16 cameras. If you have a different experience with any of the software I reviewed, provide your own review. I didn't just say it was terrible, nor do I say it's good. I gave specifics. If your experience in any of those specifics is different then provide your own experience and people can make up their own mind about the packages. But when all you can do is to attack the messenger that tells me, and likely most readers of this thread, that you don't really have a better message to offer.