Parking Lot Application - Autotracking Camera Suggestions

[rapid 0]

Looking for input on an upcoming parking lot application. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

Application: To provide video surveillance of parking lot.

Reason: Employee Safety as mostly women, work late hours.

 

Details:

 

1. Fenced employee vehicle compound approx. 40 x 100 ft. Paved lot.

2. Existing high pressure sodium light fixtures providing even illumination of lot...haven't had the chance to measure current levels.

3. Some trees installed on an island dividing the parking lot (20 x 100ft)...client has agreed to remove some.

4. Two towers will be erected to support video cameras and view down each divided section.

5. Fixed cameras will be installed on these towers to view along fence line and gate openings.

6. Proposing two dome cameras with Autotracking capability to follow employees to their cars.

 

There is a receptionist on site who will be able to view cameras, however with their other tasks, they are wanting to automate camera switching, follow the target, and record activity.

 

Of what I can find, the only cameras with Autotracking are the Bosch Envirodome & the Panasonic WV-CS954 unitized camera.

 

Anyone have other suggestions for Autotracking cameras?

 

 

Cheers.....Rapid

[jisaac 0]

the auto tracking is not something you want to depend on. If I was you I would not even say anything about the auto tracking to the customer. I have installed the panasonic 954's. the auto tracking is pretty neat but the way it works is it will always look and analyze the background. So lets say the wind is blowing and the tree's are swaying. Or if it is raining real hard. It throws some curve balls in the application. The auto tracking is really only good to point in at a place where someone is not suppose to be.

[Cooperman 0]

I'd agree with jisaacmagee,

 

The auto tracking function looks quite impressive in theory, but in practice, it can be problematic (tracking multiple targets being a pretty obvious challenge).

 

Given the size of the parking lot, I'd have preferred to use fixed cameras for coverage, with the option of a PTZ as a bolt on if the client were that way inclined (and if it was actually going to be used!).

 

At the moment, I'm working on a car park (lot) as part of a larger project, and we're only using fixed cameras for a general overview and plate recognition.

[jisaac 0]

if the objective of your system with autotracking is to try to minimize security personal but also provide video/images that may be responded to in real time then you might try something like video analytics. Cernium has an excellent software solution called perceptrak. I have recently started to offer cerniums solution of analytics in my options. I have seen this work and work well. But then again its not for ptz's. You should check it out.

www. cernium.com

[rapid 0]

Thanks guys for your comments.

 

As suggested, I'm going to stick to fixed cameras positioned at key points in the vehicle compound. The autotracking PTZ would have supplemented the fixed cameras, but based on your feedback might not be the right environment due to multiple targets. Just wanted to explore this avenue.

 

I've seen some of the video analytic software/intelligent video at ISC which would be another alternative in order to automate the process. I'll check out the Cernium software.

[jisaac 0]

It might work if you were able to point the camera at the door the employees will walk out of. Then let it follow the person to the car. Assuming that the following does not occur:

another moving object comes into the cameras FOV, then becoming the largest object in the FOV & also in most focus. And finally proceeds in the opposite direction.

 

The auto tracking is impressive and if you have the what my wife calls the "something shiny disorder" and your aslo a techno nerd then it is something you could play and tinker with for a long time. The different ways you can configure to auto track and alarm other ptz's to move or do whatever is a endless possibiltiy. But its DEFINITLY not a good idea to put it in a application where you are going to have the auto tracking be a trusted and be a large portion of the systems funtionality/intended use.

 

Remember that it is a brand new technology. That is very cool and usefull but not great for peoples (employess) safety. If you have critical areas use fixed cameras ALWAYS. And let the ptz's be the option for "additional information" on that area.

 

PM me and I will send you some clips from a place we did where we put 30 of these things up. I asked and if I could use to show others for demo purposed and the customer told me just not to publically broadcast it to EVERYONE. aka post it in in a public forum for everyone and their cousins

[cctv_down_under 0]

I agree that you should stick to fixed cameras and should also consider the factor that scene reflectance will be low (due to asphalt) so you will need very low light cameras, sodium vapur are possibly the worst lights you can try to utilize so get good cameras that can compensate, as for motion tracking...if you can trigger the door, you will havea good chance, the reason is the camera will zoom in at the target, once zoomed in it will try to follow and do it REASONABLY, but once something else is in that view it becomes hard for it to follow, you can actually buy PTZ"s that come with a remote unit that attaches to a belt, this will work perfectly as it will lock onto the signal, but you would have to have them drive the car back to the point they left from to drop it off for the next person.

 

You may wish to consider a programmed tour, you can make a walkway and set the door to trigger the tour, at the right speed and if the patron does not stop you can do this succesfully, but I would be carefull what you promise.

 

I would still consider the PTZ option with Motion tracking because even if it is not entitrely accurate it is still going to be much more accurate than a wide angled overview camera and you may get lucky, but be carefull what you pormise.

[jisaac 0]

man I would not promise anything. The only thing I woiuld promise is what equipment you will install. I try to never guarantee the functionality of any equipment. Thats where you can get yourself into some sticky situations.

[cctv_down_under 0]

agreed

[jisaac 0]

Here is something that would work that I tried here the past couple of days.

You can have the camera go into a tour and go through a number of presets over and over. You can have a panasonic wcw964 overlooking the whole area from where the people will be coming and going. And have it touring a number of presets starting from the door and ending at the parking lot. So when it stops and stairs at the preset position you can set it to detect motion and alarm itself to start the auto tracking. Also you can have it alarm output to the dvr or multiplexer to bring that camera up on the monitor so that the person manning the guard station can pay attention to that camera. Also if the camera detects motion that is nothing then you can have it just return to the tour that it was on. It actually works pretty good because it is almost checking with itself when it detects motion. Because it will go into auto tracking and if it has nothing to auto track then it just forget the motion that it detected.

Hey just a suggestion.

[rapid 0]

Thanks for the comments.

 

 

Looking at mounting the fixed cameras in a dome and have used Videolarms 20 inch VLP20 housing in the past.....hoping to find something smaller and discrete for todays cameras.

 

They have the QVIEW product which is 12 or 16 inches in diameter, and can house up to 4 board cameras on movable goose neck gimbals.

 

Noticed that Extreme had the EX44 Dual Sensor Dome Camera.

 

Any other avenues I should explore?

[rory 0]

GE has the 4 camera dome

 

Click on the Links on the left for the different configurations

http://www.gesecurity.com/portal/site/GESecurity/menuitem.f76d98ccce4cabed5efa421766030730?selectedID=10084&seriesyn=true&seriesID=

[rapid 0]

Thanks Rory.

[Panarama Man 0]

Just a suggestion, but if the actual objective is to provide a safer environment for staff, in additon to the cameras (and I agree about mostly staying fixed on this one, as the motion tracking we've tried is decent, but not reliable outdoors), make sure that the equipment is highly visible with excellent signage warning any violators of the possible presence of cameras. Really, your lot is pretty small, and fenced, so you are likely going to get the best results from strongly advertising the presence of cameras to deter problems in the first place. Hope that they never really have to be tested.

 

Of course, in a possible public place, you want to be careful about liability issues of advertising the implied "safety" from the presence of cameras. But I think we are all aware of those issues.

 

Perhaps you are going down this avenue, but since it wasn't mentioned, I thought I'd post it.

[Sawbones 0]

I agree that you should stick to fixed cameras and should also consider the factor that scene reflectance will be low (due to asphalt) so you will need very low light cameras, sodium vapur are possibly the worst lights you can try to utilize so get good cameras that can compensate, as for motion tracking...if you can trigger the door, you will havea good chance, the reason is the camera will zoom in at the target, once zoomed in it will try to follow and do it REASONABLY, but once something else is in that view it becomes hard for it to follow, you can actually buy PTZ"s that come with a remote unit that attaches to a belt, this will work perfectly as it will lock onto the signal, but you would have to have them drive the car back to the point they left from to drop it off for the next person.

 

You may wish to consider a programmed tour, you can make a walkway and set the door to trigger the tour, at the right speed and if the patron does not stop you can do this succesfully, but I would be carefull what you promise.

 

I would still consider the PTZ option with Motion tracking because even if it is not entitrely accurate it is still going to be much more accurate than a wide angled overview camera and you may get lucky, but be carefull what you pormise.

 

Could wireless PIRs be used to trigger the camera to zoom into a certain area and follow any motion?

 

I have to say... this stuff is fascinating

[zmxtech 0]

FYI...cams dont make anything safe ..... ! ? ! [its management drivel]

 

I would be using a bunch of 5Mp plus IP cameras then you can zoom in on any detail you need. you wont need to pan or tilt!

 

16Mp if you can afford it -with GB switches.

 

cover all exits with solid setups IR/normnal illumination to fill any gaps in lighting.

 

 

 

my 2c