Give feedback, new VideoAnalytics/IntruderDetection service

[nats_sw 0]

Hi,

 

I'm looking for your feedback, opinions, etc on a new product.

 

The Product

It basically provides very accurate intruder detection on realtime for any camera with an internet connection. You don't have to use any specific hardware, which is great because a lot of people have some great cameras already setup, no point in changing them.

 

Alerts are sent to the user directly via push-notifications, SMS and phone calls. Includes things like monitoring schedules and some cool geofencing features (on when you leave, off when you arrive). There are iOS and Android apps.

 

Human detection demo (so you understand what I mean)

Motion is shown in green, red is actual alerts (human detected)

 

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Cost

This thing is a monthly subscription, no long term contracts, and actually vey affordable (there is a promo right now at $10/cam).

 

The Question

 

What do you guys think? Is this something you would use? What problems do you see with something like it?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

PS: If any of you is interested in the product details send me a PM, and I'll send you the info. I'm trying to respect the forum rules.

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. Far from being accurate....... This type of detection has been around for years..... And the question is the same .... Why .?

 

People have recorders recording the same event .... So why pay $10 a month to have green red squares around objects.

 

 

It does the same as motion detection ...... Take a look at the night time footage

[nats_sw 0]

Interesting, to me the value is on being notified in realtime to my phone only when an actual human being is detected. Do you mean that people actually don't want to be notified in realtime and that recording it is enough? (you are an integrator, so I assume you have had this conversation with customers)

 

From my experience, motion detection is not nearly as accurate as this, as dogs, cars, etc will trigger it. (green boxes in the video are ignored, meaning they don't generate alerts).

 

Nighttime detection is as good as daytime as long as the camera has adequate IR leds for the area is monitoring.

[tomcctv 190]

Have you seen the amount of false alarms just in the demo video ?

 

Did you see the dog off its lead ?? No detection

 

Night time it does not work ..... Look at car lights just at end of video .... Detected for no reason.

 

This is old tech and is even standard on some DVRs

$10 a month for false alarms does not last long .... And on top of that putting a stream out to a 3rd party

 

A good motion detection the type you can set an area is just as good

[nats_sw 0]

Green boxes are not detections, just change highlights. But it is fair to say those should not be in the video then. (re: car lights)

 

Why should the dog be detected though? I did not understand that.

 

About the tech, it is actually quite new, it is called deep learning over convolutional neural networks and it most definitely does not come on DVRS just yet.

 

One of the product promises is consistent improvements and there is a zero false positives version too ($15/mo).

 

Is your bigger turn off the monthly fee or do you just prefer a traditional setup?

 

Thanks for you answers so far!

[tomcctv 190]

About the tech, it is actually quite new, it is called deep learning over convolutional neural networks and it most definitely does not come on DVRS just yet.

 

Hikvision 2004 PC based first shown at ifec security show ... It is old .... Plus there are other videos on YouTube that are 3 - 5 8 years old ...

 

 

Why the dog ... Op on here only a month ago was looking for something to see who's dog craps on his garden ... No good for that.

 

False alarms .... Yes the lights on car ..... But at night it will pic out every car that goes past.

 

Now keep an eye on the car in drive on your video .... How many cars does it detect from the reflection in the paint work .... I count 4.

One of the product promises is consistent improvements and there is a zero false positives version too ($15/mo)

 

So basically as I said the $10 might give false alarms ... So pay us $15

 

Do people need to spend an extra $310 a year for 2 camera or $720 for 4 cam. When they have motion on there own system ?

 

But my main problem with it is like I have always said giving 3rd party access to your network is never a good thing.

[nats_sw 0]

Maybe the video is confusing, it is supposed to be a comparison of green (motion) vs red (detections). I liked red a lot more than green in this video. I don't see the false detections you mean, but I do see one or two. Even so, it should not be a source of worry since any posible false positives would not trigger alerts anyway.

 

I still consider it to be an improvement over motion detection (even the base version), anything that reduces the number of false alerts is an improvement.

 

Honestly, I actually don't mind the monthly fee if I get remote backup of the incidents plus realtime notifications with zero false positives. It basically is a monitored surveillance system without fines for false positives.

 

Tech rant warning:

The tech is one of the things I know a lot about, computer vision has been around for some time, yes, but it changed in 2013 with the advent of convolutional neural networks. The industry and academia basically agreed to throw away everything they had achieved until then on object recognition and only use CNN's from then on. Anything prior to that is woefully outdated.

 

Cool thing about this tech is that it learns, so the same product will learn to identify dogs, cars, birds, etc (Humans are just the first step). Which means you will end up being able to set alarms for those specifically. So cool

End of Tech rant

[rodrhern 0]

When I bought my first camera with motion detection, at the end of the first day of usage, my inbox was full of spam: every bug, bird, tree, or anything moving in the scene was a new picture in my inbox. Useless feature for outdoor monitoring. When is used for indoor, false alarms are related with shadows, or pets. NEST deal with this problem sending only 1 motion detection message every 30 minutes, they only reduced the spam but did not solve the problem.

 

If you are installing a camera to get information to prevent or react a against a crime, an outdoor camera is preventive, while an indoor camera is reactive (burglars are inside already).

 

A non monitored camera is not preventive and is not reactive, its only function is to be able to record in HD how burglars get into my home and robbed my stuffs. There are a lot of footage videos on youtube.

 

Anyone with a little knowledge of Computer Vision would know that person detection in uncontrolled environments is a very very challenging task, and it's impossible to think in 0.0 error, just FYI an average person would make a 5.1 error rate in classification tasks, while Deep Learning has already outperformed that score.

 

Is very clear that you are monitoring cameras, and not just drawing boxes into the recorded video and you proved that not in the near future but now, Computer Vision is doing a very decent surveillance.

[tomcctv 190]

Cool thing about this tech is that it learns, so the same product will learn to identify dogs, cars, birds, etc (Humans are just the first step). Which means you will end up being able to set alar

 

So why pay extra $5 if $10 is self learning ??

 

The YouTube video is only 2 days old so I will guess it's new ..... I like the camera on the beach so there call it beach watch

 

Also the name ..... That is owned and trade marked that has nothing to do with this product.

 

So tell us how a customer with say a axis camera to connect to this server

[nats_sw 0]

For your typical Axis, Dahua, Hik, LTS, etc. it requires port forwarding for a stream. But it is basically:

1) your coordinates (IP/dynDNS) + port

2) camera or dvr model + channel (if dvr)

3) Connection credentials

 

There are mobile apps for notifications, activity log, monitoring schedules, etc. Phone number is required for SMS and phone call alerts.

[tomcctv 190]

For your typical Axis, Dahua, Hik, LTS, etc. it requires port forwarding for a stream. But it is basically:

1) your coordinates (IP/dynDNS) + port

2) camera or dvr model + channel (if dvr)

3) Connection credentials

 

There are mobile apps for notifications, activity log, monitoring schedules, etc. Phone number is required for SMS and phone call alerts.

 

 

So it's not just $10 a camera ..... It's also a big data cost as well if on plan?

 

Just this month the security industry is looking at getting people back to secure networks.

 

And here is another GIVE 3Rd party network details and also pay what could be anything from $10 to 100s a month so back to my second post ........ Why do people need this ??? It is pointless for the domestic market and for the commercial high risk market there is much better.

 

And the company behind this ... Need to sit down and have a think ...

If there taking full streaming from a HD camera 24/7 and the setup there going to have to use from all brands

[rodrhern 0]

OMG secure networks argument is so outdated. In that case internet is useless, online banks, payments, are damned, please someone warn them.

 

Internet penetration in USA is about 88.5%. New trends of services trends to user internet, nest is streaming, other cameras has also introduced P2P streaming, dahua and hikvision DVR/NVR and cameras allows remote control and remote monitoring, tomcctv please tell them that they are just wasting their money on those useless features.

 

If I follow your advice, I have to stay at home watching over my cameras, because exposing them to internet is so insecure.

 

tomcctv "beach watch", really???, do you have something smart to say???, you are making yourself look like a real fool.

[tomcctv 190]

Wow a so called computer programmer that knows nothing of Internet security.

 

OMG secure networks argument is so outdated. In that case internet is useless, online banks, payments, are damned, please someone warn them.

I will leave Internet security till the end of this post but nats_sw will not thank you for it as it's going to be his IP I will use

 

If you think it's outdated then you have a problem

 

You also talk about P2P ?? And that is also clear you have no clue about it.

 

But YOU AND NATS_SW. want to charge a lot of money for your new sales adventure that is pointless you are both doing your sales pitch yet neither of you have CCTV background

 

tomcctv "beach watch", really???, do you have something smart to say???, you are making yourself look like a real fool.

 

Listen idiot I only post what I read and THAT IS WHAT HE CALLS HIS OTHER CAM.

[thewireguys 3]

Deep learning is going to change the whole CCTV world.

 

So far the best I have seen is from CAMIO. My demo unit comes in Monday so I can provide more feed back then.

 

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[nats_sw 0]

Lets please keep the conversation constructive.

 

Deep learning is going to change the whole CCTV world.

Indeed, and I believe competition on trying to do it will make for better products for the end consumer.

I saw their "use an iPad old phone approach" I just dont feel comfortable with those devices in low light conditions, but it sure makes for a great marketing push.

 

So it's not just $10 a camera ..... It's also a big data cost as well if on plan?

Interesting, this actually has not been a problem so far, as tendency is for internet connections growth on capacity and in general they can handle it. Most places have a network capable to support the product and it is on their fix costs anyway.

 

In particular, really big setups which really requiere a lot of bandwidth en up having a separate network and connection. This is part of designing the setup, which is one of the reasons why it is important to have a good installer involved for that stage. Regardless, it is always something to take into consideration.

 

If there taking full streaming from a HD camera 24/7 and the setup there going to have to use from all brands

Not sure i understand this, are you talking about the complexity? Then that is something clients and integrators should not have to worry about, it should just work.

 

Network security is a bigger topic than this conversation, although a relevant one. How are you setting up your customers to access their cameras remotely via a mobile device? are you strictly using some VPN solution?

 

As a parallel note. This tech will make it into the devices themselves, but for people who have great devices now, I think it is fair to make it available to them via a cloud solution until the point when they replace their hardware.

[tomcctv 190]

As a parallel note. This tech will make it into the devices themselves, but for people who have great devices now, I think it is fair to make it available to them via a cloud solution until the point when they replace their hardware.

 

It is already out and much more advanced from 10 years ago. Avermedia geovision LJD dedicated micro axis dahua hikvision all have as standard with no extra costs

[tomcctv 190]

Interesting, this actually has not been a problem so far, as tendency is for internet connections growth on capacity and in general they can handle it. Most places have a network capable to support the product and it is on their fix costs anyway.

 

If a customer needs to send you a feed from there camera say 12hs a day that is extra data plan used.

Also the same when you detect and you send footage back to the cell that's cell data plan use. But cell data will always be part of the plan if it's your own system sending the data or 3rd party.

 

Network security is a bigger topic than this conversation, although a relevant one. How are you setting up your customers to access their cameras remotely via a mobile device? are you strictly using some VPN solution?

 

Vpn but last few months a private cloud box which takes 8 streams at a time and can still be accessed from apps or by other sorce like Dropbox and not direct to recorder that can stay of wan.

[thewireguys 3]

Lets please keep the conversation constructive.

 

Deep learning is going to change the whole CCTV world.

Indeed, and I believe competition on trying to do it will make for better products for the end consumer.

I saw their "use an iPad old phone approach" I just dont feel comfortable with those devices in low light conditions, but it sure makes for a great marketing push.

 

CamIO can use both cell phones for video and IP cameras via RTSP streams.

 

Also Avigilon has their own which will be released soon. They can do is onsite without any connection to the cloud.

 

YwyvVziR7oA

[tomcctv 190]

Lets please keep the conversation constructive.

 

Deep learning is going to change the whole CCTV world.

Indeed, and I believe competition on trying to do it will make for better products for the end consumer.

I saw their "use an iPad old phone approach" I just dont feel comfortable with those devices in low light conditions, but it sure makes for a great marketing push.

 

CamIO can use both cell phones for video and IP cameras via RTSP streams.

 

Also Avigilon has their own which will be released soon. They can do is onsite without any connection to the cloud.

 

YwyvVziR7oA

 

The avigilon is impressive only seen demo for about 40 mins it's a lot more that person detect.