Questions and Camera Suggestion

[shawn130c 0]

My dad owns a small apartment complex (16 units, 2 stories) with automatic gate for cars and a pedestrian gate.

 

We want to monitor both gates as well as the area in front of the apartment. So far we have a small video system setup with:

Swann MAXI DAY/NIGHTCAM (mounted on top of complex)

[edit by mod - link removed]

that monitors the car gate and some of the side gate (see picture its the red square). And

Sentinel 4 Channel DVR SC324

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That records everything

 

We are now looking for a color outdoor camera that will watch the ped. gate as well as most of the front fence (see picture, its the blue square, i am looking to be able to record the whole area between the orange lines ) and be able to record at night (not looking for perfect quality at night but at being able to know theres is someone there)The distance is only like 24-30 feet from gate to where i want the camera to be and the camera will only be like 6-12 feet from the ground (it will be placed on a lower overhang)

 

So what type of camera should i be looking for?

Also do i need some kind of special lens for the 90degrees of coverage i am looking for.

 

Here is a quick diagram i made, it is not drawn to scale, hopefully i can get a picture and some measurments in the near future.

 

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1904/overview8rz.png

 

Thanks for any help

[KrCCTV 0]

First question is "have you yet used any of what you have (4 channel dvr and one camera) and are you happy with what your getting" (helps us to guide you). Second. Any reason only two cameras on four channel DVR (90 degree view will have some fisheye effect... i.e. edge distortion and everything will look a mile away... then add low light and it might just prove pretty useless - might, at a distance, just see someone/something there but not sure if a person, alien, or dog walking upright. Might be better with a couple of cameras breaking up that scene. Please answer for further suggestions.

[shawn130c 0]

Thanks for the quick reply

 

As for the answer to your question, yes i am currently using the dvr the swann camera and a wireless camera (watches side parking), they all work pretty good. Except the wireless has some interference, i am planning to take it down and replace it a wired (main focus right now is the gate), but the quality is adequate, had to drop the ips to 8 from 30 untill i get a bigger hd, for the main camera watching the gate. By adequate i can get a good description of the person in fov (facial isnt the best at the moment) and a car description.

 

The 90 degree view was just an idea for ease if not i can get a two camera, mainly i want to view area infront of ped. gate (not just who enters and leaves but people walking auround inside the gate and a side view of car gate (see pic, i would like to see pretty much all the area in red if the camera is placed 6-12 feet from the ground and the gate is about 24-30 ft away).

 

O yeah forgot to mention a price, i am looking at spending less then $150 (less would be nice) for a outdoor camera that provides good quality for area i mentioned above.

 

[jisaac 0]

ouch 150???? man you can come off more than that! You might as well put up a dummy camera

[shawn130c 0]

Well yeah a dummy camera would be nice and cheap but not really an option, how much am i looking at for a camera that can do what i want it to do? I would think 150 would be resonable, i paid 130 retail for the swann camera i am using now.

[securitymonster 0]

the problem is Swann is bottom of the barrell

[KrCCTV 0]

Maybe their problem isn't that serious... or maybe they're not that serious about solving their problem.

 

Did I ever tell you the one about the guy who bought his mother a discount pacemaker? She wasn't that important to him.

[shawn130c 0]

Were are serious about this and trying to figure out what we need before any problems arises. But I really have no idea what camera I should be looking for (just learned about cctv stuff a month ago). I now realize that the swann camera aren't the best, we picked it up at frys along with the dvr, and I found this forum after we purchased everything.

Anyways, what type of features should we be looking for in a camera to do this and how much are we looking at to get a camera with those features (I am pretty sure I can get my dad to raise the spending limit not sure how much though, most like less then $200)

 

Thanks again for the quick replies and any more help

[KrCCTV 0]

Have to say I that I love the smiley bangin' his head against the wall - - that's classic What is your nightime lighting like and where is it coming from? Do you understand that no matter what... without spending significantly more in my opinion, that the camera will be blinded to some extent by incoming vehicle headlights. Anyway first things first... lighting and from where please.

[shawn130c 0]

I really dont remember what the nighttime lighting is (dont think there is any light at the gate but i am pretty sure i can get some there) The only light there is by the door that leads to the indoor stairs but that is under the overhang and the camera will be on top of the overhang. Also i might be able to get my dad to put some kind of motion flood light to put on the building that is facing the car gate.

But other then those i really dont remember the lighting sitation. I should be able to go out to complex on Sunday and get some better measurements, and hopefully some recorded video from the dvr. I will also see if there is any nighttime recording I can get too (the dvr is set to record when motion is detected to save on some hd space until I can get a bigger hd)

I understand the cameras maybe be blinded at night, the community isn’t that bad where the property is but I will talk with my dad about the issue with the blinding and see how he wants to go from there ( i would like night time recording but my dad may not be interested in spending the extra). But for now any examples of cameras I should be looking, preferably two, one that will do what I need to do, and another that will do what I want it to do and that wont be blinded by the headlights.

 

UPDATE: Found a sattelite picture of area, might help some other people get a feel for the area, red is the swann camera that i have, blue is the area i looking to watch.

http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/2748/newoverviewcopy0de.png[/b]

[shawn130c 0]

Yesterday had some time and was able to get some recorded video, as well as pics.

1. Here a couple minutes of video i recorded and transfered using my digital camcorder. The settings for the dvr where this.

Normal Quality

Multiplexer 720*480

IPS: 4 (Record IPS set 8 to IPS but divided by 2 cameras not really sure on this part though but thats how they explained it in the manual)

Swann Security Camera Example Video

2. A night time picture. As you can see the lighting isnt that good there is some light in the corner but thats about it.

3. Daytime pictures. Quality isnt the best but it provides enough detail for now.

4. Some more pics of the area and possible camera placement

 

As you can see the area, i wouldnt think, wouldnt be too hard to watch with a camera. Also for the lighting, there are lightbulb sockets on top of the ped gate, will that be enough lighting for a camera?

 

Thanks again for any help and have a fun and safe 4th of july.

[KrCCTV 0]

Lots of good info in those pics - thanks for taking the time.

 

If happy enough with first camera I'd say get another the same. Idea of lighting of ped. area sounds fine but don't think you want a light "on" the gate as it'll likely do more harm than good if light itself is seen by camera. Instead consider a spot shown upon gate area from afar (with light itself out of view of camera - - as always light behind camera). Please, people who do this for a living (that don't just "sell stuff" like some of us), contribute with your "real-world experience" based suggestions.

[shawn130c 0]

Thanks for the suggestions KrCCTV

I am happy with the swann camera but i would like to try some other cameras/manufacturers out, may have to do some more of this in the future.

Should i be looking for a camera auround the same specs as the swann or should i try to be looking for something alittle different? Here are the basic specs for the camera i got now:

 

Resolution: 420 TV Lines

Image Sensor:¼ " SuperHAD CCD

Video Signal:NTSC 510 (H) x 492 (V)

S/N Ratio:More than 48db

Minimum Illumination: 0 LUX

Video Output:1.0V(P-P)75

Power Supply:DC 12V

Operating Current:150mA-280mA

Video Output Connector:BNC

Infrared Wavelength:24 units 850nm

Illumination Distance:Up to 66ft/20m

Auto Switch:Night (IR on)/ Day(IR off)

 

Also any cameras/manufacturers i should try and look for.

[rory 0]

Out of your price range but Sanyo has a nice new Vandal Dome called the Pan Focus, very good Day Night Dome at a decent price. Low light in BW Mode will never be as good as an actual BW Camera, but it does okay. No washed out colors such as in your images as it has a mechanical IR Cut Filter.

 

Panasonic has the good Wide Dynamic Domes and Box cameras for applications such as this where there can be glare from the car lights. They are much more expensive than the Sanyo though.

 

Are you trying to see licence plates or just a general view of the gate?

 

One problem i can see is not only the cameras being used, but that DVR typically wont give you the best quality.

[shawn130c 0]

this camera is going to mainly be used to watch the ped gate, on the right of the car gate (see pics/diagram above), if possible i would like to try and get a view of the driver that are coming through the car gate along with people who enter the gate. If i can get a camera in my price range (around $150-200) that will be able to get licenses plates that would be nice too but mainly this camera for better viewing of ped. gate.

 

Also I dont really have any experience with dome cameras, but can i place the dome upright so the dome is facing the sky instead of the ground (i am planning to place the camera on a lower overhang)

[ultimatesecurity 0]

Hi Shawn,

 

I have some affordable suggestions for you on some products that can help you in your price range. The first product is a Hi Resolution CCD Camera with a wide 170 degree field-of-view lens from supercircuits model number PC-221-HR priced at 144.99 with this camera you will be able to achieve a full view of your car gate and pedestrian gate as well as other areas. If you need better lighting at night you can get a infrared light source like the IR23

 

If you can afford a little more, I would then recommend a vandal proof dome camera model number CD34IR-HR as a dome camera you can mount on the overhang of your apartment complex. It feature a variable zoom, so you adjust the field of view as needed and it has built in infrared light source. It also is vandal proof since your ceiling height is only 10ft from the ground.

 

P.S. I don't recommend mounting the dome camera facing the sky, you can overheat the inside components during daytime with the scorching sunlight and it can also produce internal condensation. Also these are only suggestions from your request and price range. I am sure other members would have there own opinions on these products.

[shawn130c 0]

Thanks for the information ultimatesecurity, but i have decided agasint a dome camers, since i would like to put the camera on top of the overhang, since it will be safer up there then under the overhang. The camera you suggest looks promising, i really like the size, but i can i change the lens on this camera?

Not exactly sure if wide angle is need there since i already have a camera watching the car gate, eventhough it would be nice haveing another camera watching the driver side and ped gate, so i might just go with a lens that will allow me to get a closer view of ped gate.

Also hows the quality on the camera, do you think the quality would be better or worse then the swann i already have.

[ultimatesecurity 0]

Honestly, the quality of the swann is ok and the cameras I have suggested are good not the best. However even if you have the best security camera on the market your DVR would be the ultimatum on video quality. Not all DVR's are the same. I was suggesting the wide angle since you had mentioned that you wanted to see both the car and pedestrian walk through. I had noticed that your swann just gets the pedestrian part while the main focus is the driveway. The lens is not interchangable on the wide angle unit. However the cameras I am suggesting are all in one units, meaning you don't need a camera, housing, braket, etc. for ease of use. Of course I would always suggest using a C/CS-mount camera with the proper lense and housing. Or a dome camera mounted on the wall.

 

If the wide angle is not for you, than I would recommend a ZOOM IR Cam model: PC-505IR. Good resolution with a SONY 1/3 HAD Chipset. Its a little pricy and you still need to buy a power supply and cable which is about 25 bucks.

[shawn130c 0]

Thanks for the product suggestion, i am getting a better idea of what type of camera i need to look for, also i realize i still have little clue on what each description for the cameras. So now for some more questions, since it looks like my dad would like to look at some cameras at some local cctv here:

 

1. Cameras i am looking at mention 1/3'' or 1/4'' CCD this has to do with the image sensor right? In a camera for my situation i should try to get 1/3'' right or does it depend on the quality of the image sensor?

 

2. I should try and find a day/night camera instead of a color or bw right? I understand that the day/night cameras switch between color and bw depending on light is this correct? And ones that have IR on the camera will help it see in low light right?

 

3. Ok the lens, so far i see cameras with fixed, and variable focus lens. Now is there anyway to tell if a camera can use different lens or do i have to look for soemthing specific like how some camera have c/cs mounts?

Also with varible focus you can switch between focal length while with a fixed you only have a option with one size per lens correct and the smaller the lens the wider the image correct?

 

4. And finally the resolution, i should try to look for something 400+ right?

Also is this chart a good guideline on camera resolutions?

 

Color High Res = 480/520 TVL

Color Mid Res = 380/420TVL

Color Low Res = 330/350 TVL

 

BW High Res = 570/600TVL

BW Mid Res = 420/480TVL

BW Low Res = 380/400TVL

 

Thanks again for all the help provided and any more help you can give me.

[rory 0]

1. Cameras i am looking at mention 1/3'' or 1/4'' CCD this has to do with the image sensor right? In a camera for my situation i should try to get 1/3'' right or does it depend on the quality of the image sensor?

 

1/3" is better. Typical Difference is that 1/3" at 4mm is a wider view than 1/4" at 4mm. You also have to look at the chip being used, alot of 1/4" budget cameras use Sharp 1/4" Chips, some even Cmos instead of CCD, which makes for a very degraded image, and even moreso, no low light capabilities. Another thing, with Sony 1/3" Chips there are many variations, the more they cost the better the chip is.

 

2. I should try and find a day/night camera instead of a color or bw right? I understand that the day/night cameras switch between color and bw depending on light is this correct? And ones that have IR on the camera will help it see in low light right?

 

BW is always better in low light than any day night all in one camera, no matter the brand or how much it costs. Infrared helps but in the lower priced cameras it doesnt make much of a difference. Instead of using the Color IR cameras (which are typically not True Day Night Cameras) Exview BW would be a much better choice. If you want a decent Day Night at least make sure it has a Mechanical IR Cut Filter; so colors in the daytime are not washed out from the Infrared produced by the sun. Note: In the North this may not matter as much, down here though, without an IR Cut Filter the color camera is a BW Image anyway, in full sunlight.

 

3. Ok the lens, so far i see cameras with fixed, and variable focus lens. Now is there anyway to tell if a camera can use different lens or do i have to look for soemthing specific like how some camera have c/cs mounts?

 

If the camera has a fixed lens you can change the lens yourself, if it is a Bullet or Dome camera with a varifocal lens, you will definately not want to mess with the lens. All cameras such as Domes and Bullets are CS mounts these days, but once again, pay no attention to that as you will not want to touch the lens unless it is a fixed lens. Even if it is a fixed lens you should order the correct focal length when you buy the camera unless you know how to adjust them properly.

 

Also with varible focus you can switch between focal length while with a fixed you only have a option with one size per lens correct and the smaller the lens the wider the image correct?

 

Correct. See #1

 

4. And finally the resolution, i should try to look for something 400+ right?

 

BW at least 420TVL or higher, Color at least 380TVL or higher, you can go lower but quality will not be good. If you go higher resolution, quality will be even better, especially with evidence sharing (though this still depends on the DVR and Settings used).

 

Rory

Edited July 9, 2006 by Guest

[rory 0]

Here are some threads to look through:

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4227

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4172

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3136

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3012

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4919

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4666

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5232

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5095

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4778

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5257

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4954

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4890

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4331

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3907

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3333

[shawn130c 0]

Thanks for the information and links rory. Those will help while i search for a camera. Also anymore product suggestion would be nice, so i can get a better idea of what to look for at local stores.

[chewingyu 0]

Hey, the pics posted up are great. How does one post pics up?