Galaxy GX744MFS-IR28 CCTV camera

[dborg56 0]

New to CCTV cameras and I am looking to install a system for the exterior surveillance of my house. I have been quotes a Galaxy

GX744MFS-IR28 4 IP cameras and NVR. How reliable are these cameras and software support?

 

Any help is appreciated.

[Orange Security 0]

I would suggest those aren't the best cameras for your installation. I also wouldn't trust someone who just recommends 4 of those cameras for an installation. It's likely they won't be the optimal cameras for your situation, but are an easy way to 'tick the boxes' that you ask for.

 

Those cameras have a 2.8mm lens - this is a very wide angle lens. You're spreading your pixels far too thinly over the area you're looking to cover. On our website we have our 'Golden Rule' (https://www.orangesecurity.com/orange-security-golden-rule/). Take a read of this and you'll get a better understanding as to why such a wide angle lens isn't a good idea! In short, however by spreading your pixels thinly you may see a large area but you are limiting your chances of identifying a person.

 

The cameras recommended are also the traditional dome style - these aren't a great idea as unless the camera is set up 100% perfect (and even then there's still a risk) you will get the IR illumination reflecting off the dome and back into the camera lens. At best this will make your night time images look pretty nasty. At worst, you won't see anything. If you check out our website you will see that we also stock a traditional vandal dome style camera however this is for our customers who have no choice but to have these cameras - you'd be much better off with an open dome style camera.

 

IP is likely not the best technology to you could use for your security cameras - we have a great article that explains some of the basic differences here : https://www.orangesecurity.com/advice/full-hd-1080p-resolution/tvi-cvi-sdi-ahd-ip-whats/.

 

It's hard to give a full analysis of the system proposed with only the information given in your opening post, however if you'd like me to take a look at the quote and provide some more detailed feedback, please don't hesitate to send an e-mail to help@orangesecurity.com and mark it for the attention of Matt.

[tomcctv 190]

More sales crap ......... And your products are expensive way over priced

 

The other way IP cameras can be used is by running an ethernet cable from the recorder straight to the camera however you then end up with the complicated IP configuration issues whilst still having to run a dedicated cable from the recorder to the camera.

 

Tvi camera then cable to recorder. --- is that not also a dedicated run

 

IP camera then cable to recorder ------ dedicated just like your Tvi

[lovelygirl 0]

You'd better read some useful information on some review sites. such as cnet,pcmag,Itday(https://itday.com/cameras/choose-best-video-camera-for-youtube-market/) and more.

[Orange Security 0]

I'm sorry - but how is what I wrote "sales crap"? Everything I've said is not only completely true, but is also good advice that should be followed by the original poster (and anyone who is planning a security camera system).

 

Breaking it down:

 

Anyone who solely recommends wide angle cameras (e.g. 2.8mm, 3.6mm etc) for every location is very unlikely to either have the knowledge or have the best interests of their customer at heart. You waste so many pixels. People who do this, then try to upsell resolution - it used to be upselling to 1080p now it's to multi-megapixel IP/4k (analogue or IP) and beyond.

 

Ironically, it's often these same people who then go on to recommend a recorder/HDD combination that is wholly unsuitable to the additional resolution...solely so they don't look expensive. The recommendation is then to reduce the recorded resolution - negating the point of having a higher resolution camera.

 

We are more than happy to help customers on a no-obligation basis who aren't sure about quotes they have received from other companies. It is amazing the number of times that I see high resolution cameras specified followed by a recorder with a tiny hard drive saying 30 days of recorded footage and a small-print note saying (when recording at lower resolution) or similar.

 

You're much more likely to get a better result (i.e. identifying the perpetrator in a crime) if you have narrow angles of view concentrated in and are not wasting pixels as explained in Our Golden Rule.

 

Next I go on to comment on the camera body style that has been recommended to the person. The advice here is totally sound also. The camera body style is likely not the best one to use. Unless the absolute vandal resistance is key, the open dome style camera is by far and away the better option. Possibly a bullet camera also depending on the installation location.

 

I would say that everything I have said is most definitely not "sales crap" but in fact the polar opposite - good, useful advice openly offered to the original poster of this thread.

 

On another note, I also find it interesting that you consider my products to be "way over priced" - the products I sell are better value than my direct competitors (both IP or TVI). Of course you can by security cameras for far less money, but you have no idea what you're buying (especially when you buy from Amazon/eBay or similar). Not only that, but good luck getting any support if there are issues either with the initial set up or warranty claims further down the line. It's not only about the purchase price.

[tomcctv 190]

See sales crap.

 

No such thing as wasted pixels........so changing lenses alters pixels?

 

As far as over priced ..... hik new tvi with vf $80

 

When you joined you got a page that says no self promoting company or keep posting links.

[Orange Security 0]

Rather than just trotting out "sales crap", perhaps you'd like to explain how what I'm saying is, in fact, "crap" as opposed to helpful information for anyone looking to purchase a security camera system?

 

There are indeed such things as wasted pixels! Changing lenses (or in the case of a varifocal lens, zooming in) doesn't alter pixels - it alters what the pixels look at - it concentrates the pixels onto the important areas of an image. The aim is to hit your subject with as many pixels as possible.

 

Our Golden Rule explains it, but I'll put the images here as a quick explanation (using thumbnails as I don't want to make the post too large):

 

 

I've also got a handy overlay for that image:

 

 

In this instance, everything other than the green pixels in the middle of the image are wasted (for the purposes of this particular camera). Each of the colored sections are explained in more detail on the Golden Rule page of our website if you are interested as to why only the green pixels are useful.

 

By zooming the camera in, you get this:

 

 

You are giving the camera a much greater chance of doing it's job and identifying a perpetrator on the second image than you do on the first.

 

I'm afraid I am not aware of a new Hikvision (I presume that's what you mean by hik) 1080p HD-TVI camera with varifocal lens that retails for $80 from a reputable source.

[tomcctv 190]

So this image is better than the full image.

 

 

And your saying this image is pointless ?

 

 

What protects the windows and AC unit ?

 

CCTV is information collecting .....the more information it holds the better the evidence

[Orange Security 0]

I'm afraid I really don't agree with you - my view is that CCTV is not collecting information but is in fact collecting useful information.

 

That's not an a/c unit, and yes I am saying that image is less helpful than the zoomed in equivalent for the purposes of that camera. The whole point of that particular camera is to identify anyone who comes around the side of the property.

 

There's absolutely no point in getting footage of a person stealing something or doing some damage if you're not able to identify that person. Use a camera with a varifocal lens and zoom it right in on your target subject so that if someone does come around the side of the property you massively increase your chances of identifying the person.

 

My philosophy is very much that collecting useless information is, well, useless and people should concentrate on the useful information that is most likely going to help identify a perpetrator.

[tomcctv 190]

www.orangesecurity.com

 

I'll start off with your website ..... So as thread is picked up by Google.

 

 

I'm afraid I really don't agree with you - my view is that CCTV is not collecting information but is in fact collecting useful information.

 

Typical salesman ...... Ok I should of said useful information..... You are so full of crap.

 

It looks like a AC unit ...... Must be the overpriced cheap camera.

 

There's absolutely no point in getting footage of a person stealing something or doing some damage if you're not able to identify that person. Use a camera with a varifocal lens and zoom it right in on your target subject so that if someone does come around the side of the property you massively increase your chances of identifying the person.

 

Identifying the person ..... The distance in your picture is easy to identify a face even with the wide lens with the right camera choice.

 

YOU have just posted this.

 

I'm afraid I really don't agree with you - my view is that CCTV is not collecting information but is in fact collecting useful information.

 

So your so called useful information is just face at gate........ Yet not seeing vandalism on AC ........ So your useful information is useless if camera did not see the crime.

 

The moral is use better cameras collect as much info as possible ..

You telling And selling to your customers zoomed in is better than all down full side of house is wrong and waste of money ...... Any CCTV owner would like full view down house.

 

I see you sell TVT tvi cameras and recorders. Try out some 3 or 4mp IP of cvi. Much better

[jeromephone 6]

comment on IP config having to run cables back to nvr and this makes things complicated. As far as I know you would only have to run one cable to the NVR and use POE switches as needed. I just finished a small job that would have required running coax over a 1000 feet in an industrial building if we had not done POE with intermediate switches.

 

It also seems you are sort of pushing the line between an ad for your business and providing info.

[Orange Security 0]

Tom:

 

Despite your protestations, it's still not an a/c unit. As you keep focusing on it, I'll save you any further embarrassment - it's a pool heater!

 

You continue to trot out the same old mildly offensive line that provides no useful information or help to anyone reading this thread, much less the original poster. I haven't been and am still not "full of crap".

 

There is a significant difference between information and useful information and making that distinction is vital when it comes to planning any security camera system. It's not a matter of being pedantic on choice of words - it makes a real difference when installing a security camera system. This is nothing to do with being a "typical salesman" - it's about useful advice for people based not only on planning, specifying and installing many security camera systems.

 

It's also based on supporting those customers after installation all the way through to actually getting convictions where the cops regularly comment along the lines of "this is the best security camera footage we've ever seen". Those are not one off comments! In the past, I have regularly achieved better results with standard definition D1 resolution equipment than these police officers have seen from 1080p cameras at the time.

 

So, to continue to say that I am "full of crap" or such similar information whilst being insulting and rude is not helpful and completely untrue.

 

As I said in my other post, the entire purpose of that particular camera is to identify people coming around the side of the property (to put your mind at ease, Tom, it's also not the only camera on that side of the property). The pool heating and pump system was specifically not of any concern at all to the customer. The windows are also non-opening and over 7 feet from the ground. They are also impact resistant and fully hurricane proof of over 150mph winds.

 

From the camera mounting location, from memory, the gate is somewhere between 65 and 70 feet from the camera. I don't know exactly how wide the pool equipment is, but let's assume it's 10 feet wide or around 55 feet from the camera. The wide angle useless image is from a lens set at around 5 or 6mm. The useful image is of course much more zoomed in than that - I don't have the exact setting to hand but I imagine somewhere between 40 and 50mm. Had the lens been 2.8mm (which is what the subject of this thread originally was and seemingly is recommended by you) the image would be much wider, wasting even more pixels.

 

At the 1080p resolution with a camera lens set at 2.8mm you'd expect to be able to identify a person at 12, maybe 15 feet at a push. Let's say we use the camera in the first post of this thread which are, I believe, 4MP resolution (let's also assume for a moment that the recorder is specified so that it can also record at 4MP too). The identification distance would be somewhere in the region of 20 feet. Maybe a couple of feet more - in fact, let's be generous and say 25 feet. You're not even half way to the pool equipment you are so concerned about. Let's now talk about 4K/8MP - that's getting better, but still not good enough - maybe 30 feet... if you're lucky you might get 35 feet. We're still no where near even the pool equipment.

 

Sure, you could move a camera closer to the gate/pool equipment however you're then not viewing the whole side of the property as you seem to recommend. Not only that, but you are also removing the benefit of the great direction of view you have from the current location. The camera is currently positioned on part of the property that extends to the side slightly - this allows you to get as close to a head on view as is possible which as I'm sure you know gives you the best chance of identifying a person. You would also end up looking down at a much steeper angle on the person's head as opposed to a shallow angle as it is now.

 

I have indeed tested cameras with multi mega pixel resolution (over 1080p or 2MP) and they simply don't increase the identification distance sufficiently to do the job. As a very rough guide, to double the identification distance (for a given angle of view) you need 4 times the number of pixels (as you have an increase the number of pixels in both the horizontal and vertical directions).

 

Jerome:

 

I have and continue to give helpful and constructive advice to the original poster of this thread. With the intention of helping him out. This tom guy has been nothing but insulting and derogatory not only about me personally but also about my business. I'm afraid I'm not prepared to sit by and not offer a rebuttal.

 

My thoughts are to offer as much helpful and useful information to the customer as possible to allow them to make an informed decision. Of course, it's great if they want to buy from us, however the website is full of advice. That advice is all available on a no-obligation basis.

 

I posted a couple of links to articles on my website to avoid making the post miles longer than it needs to be and with the intention of helping the original poster to work out what equipment is best for them.

[tomcctv 190]

AC or pool heater ..... does it mater what it is ...... it is still not in view....... so does not matter how YOU see it it's not covered.

 

Let's say I guy comes to service the pool heater.......can you see if it was service......NO. that is information not captured by camera

 

Cctv is not just for crime

[Orange Security 0]

AC or pool heater ..... does it mater what it is ...... it is still not in view....... so does not matter how YOU see it it's not covered.

 

Let's say I guy comes to service the pool heater.......can you see if it was service......NO. that is information not captured by camera

 

Cctv is not just for crime

 

I know it's not in view. Great, isn't it!! I say that with my tongue in cheek of course - the reason I say that however is that the camera is doing exactly what the purpose of that camera is!

 

You are absolutely correct - CCTV is not just for crime and is a conversation we have with people on a daily basis.

 

In your suggestion of the guy coming to service the pool heater - again you are correct. If the owner of the property was concerned about ensuring the pool heater was serviced correctly then you wouldn't put the camera in that location to get a good view. Otherwise all you'd see is someone fiddling with the equipment but not have any real idea as to whether the service was done correctly.

[Magic of Philly 0]

AC or pool heater ..... does it mater what it is ...... it is still not in view....... so does not matter how YOU see it it's not covered.

 

Let's say I guy comes to service the pool heater.......can you see if it was service......NO. that is information not captured by camera

 

Cctv is not just for crime

 

I know it's not in view. Great, isn't it!! I say that with my tongue in cheek of course - the reason I say that however is that the camera is doing exactly what the purpose of that camera is!

 

You are absolutely correct - CCTV is not just for crime and is a conversation we have with people on a daily basis.

 

In your suggestion of the guy coming to service the pool heater - again you are correct. If the owner of the property was concerned about ensuring the pool heater was serviced correctly then you wouldn't put the camera in that location to get a good view. Otherwise all you'd see is someone fiddling with the equipment but not have any real idea as to whether the service was done correctly.

 

Here let me be the "arbitrator" between you and the other guy.

 

I say, if face identification is important and at the same time capturing the whole area which includes protecting the window(s) and the pool heater, I would install two cameras, one zoomed to 12mm (assuming thats your optical zoom level) and the other unzoomed to default 2.8mm. If the one unzoomed to 2.8mm that happens to be capturing the broadest range of image cannot give you a clear enough facial image of the person, then the other camera which is zoomed to gate will capture the person's face very clearly as he/she is entering the premises, then the other camera will capture the same person perpetrating the crime, whatever that crime may be. So, you have a team work between two cameras, its a great compromise to having to install a 8MP, 12MP or even 16MP (if such camera exists) and the price associated with such cameras.

 

An idea like this is what I did on my own house. You see, I own a house that have a front yard that is capable of parking two vehicle plus a walking path between the house and the front door by the side walk which is a gate. I have one 2.8mm 1080P HD TVI camera capturing as much as possible of the whole front yard, including the side walk, walking path to the door gate, the pavement where the cars pass by and some view of the other side walk enough to capture a person up to face altitude, then I have another camera installed right next to that one zoomed to 12mm, that camera only captures the front gate door by the sidewalk and because the camera is wide angle (1920x1080) it also extends to most of the gate where my vehicle enters, so this zoomed camera can capture anyone trying to open any of the both of these doors whether its my main gate entrance or the gate to my car's entrance/exit. Anyone who walks by my sidewalk gets clearly identified on the 12mm zoomed lense camera, while the other camera, the 2.8mm can pretty much tell me what happened in any of my areas but will not be enough to identify the person's face walking in the sidewalk, and if you digitally zoom into it, you will get a blurry face, but the other camera will give you a clear image of the person, the person still has to walk on that sector, after that anything else the person do that is not covered by the 12mm camera is covered by the 2.88 camera and that 12mm camera can positively identify the person seen on the 2.8mm camera doing vandalism/stealing, its teamwork between two cameras. A great cheap alternative to having to install one 12MP 2.8mm camera to do the whole entire job and the massive array of disk space associated with that kind of setup.

 

Each of my cameras is setup to record in full hd, at a bitrate of 3 mbps, motion detection, HiKVision TVI DVR is setup to trigger recording the other 2.88mm camera if it is motion triggered in addition to the other 2.88mm camera having its own motion trigger rules an sensitivity (the most sensitive) defined as well, thats so that if there is a very tiny motion event passing on the 2.88mm camera that the motion may not trigger it, if it passes by the 12mm zoomed camera the motion rule for the 12mm camera will trigger itself to begin recording and it will also trigger the other 2.88mm camera to begin recording as well.

 

The DVR is a 16 channel HD TVI 2.0 DVR with two 4TB hard drive for a total of 8 TB of storage (was told by my supply house it takes a max of 4 TB per HDD, and possibly 6TB per HDD, but went with 4TBx2 anyways).

 

So, orange, install both cameras, leave the original 2.88MM 1080P camera and install a varifocal 2.88mm ~ 12mm 1080P camera next to it, and zoom it accordingly till you can see the gate as per your sample, that way you get both, the benefit of identify-ability and broadness.