Anyone got any ideas as to what this is?

[libram 0]

Ok quick rundown. 16 cameras, CVI, all runs under 300 feet on 5e, Baluns on both ends, all cameras share the same power supply.

Camera is mounted to plastic, no accidental ground possible, reterminated the end today. Replaced camera today. What you see below only occurs after about 6 pm, thought it was an IR problem in the old camera, does it on the new camera, switched to color and I have what you see below, in the AM this same color image will be totally clear. No ground loop isolator installed currently. Camera 8 inches away from this one is fine. Look closely at the distortion, it changes speed, slows, stops, and reverses direction. Anyone recognize what this is? I can add a longer capture if needed.

 

https://www.dropshots.com/libram11

[b1gbleu 0]

Interesting, move this camera 8" to the other side of the good camera.

[libram 0]

yeah, cant get the coverage from there, I'm currently setting it to 24/7 record and observing the time it starts and stops. If its variable its probably lighting, if its static I'm thinking radio or power gen. If anyone recognizes the pattern i'd be happy to look into it.

[jeromephone 6]

you said you reterminated the cable did you test the cable for any opens or shorts? Also is it ossible you have a wet cable. I would try powering the camera on an individual power supply and see if it is still doing it.. a balun problem is possible as well.

[libram 0]

cable is brand new, direct burial cat 5, run in a conduit to protect from UV, all pins are good, if it were a balun issue or a power supply issue I would think it would come and go randomly or be constant. What I'm getting is is starts at about 6 pm and stops at 7 am.

[b1gbleu 0]

I meant moving it as a test to see if it still distorts. Does it coincide with sunset then sunrise? Not the actual time but when light in it's view changes. Does someone beyond you have lights on a timer? I had problems when my town switched to led lamps on the poles, I had to change night settings to daylight. Another problem I had was my new neighbor's Christmas lights would keep my coach lamp from turning on, I put some duct tape and thin plastic near the sensor to block the light from hitting it.

[libram 0]

I've been tracking the timing, it seems to be moving with sunrise and sunset, I put up some cardboard around and behind the camera to see if it was backlight causing it but no change, weird part is it does it in night vision AND color mode. Whatever it is the cause isn't excess or lack of sunlight. Nest step I'm taking is to turn the camera in the direction of the other to see if its some kind of light source or something coming at the lens. I'd just pop it onto the camera run beside it but its the second camera so I know its not the cam, and the cable runs are both in the same conduit. If it were water intrusion it would be constant or at least random. If EMI it would affect both. Something weird here, I'm workin on it.

[libram 0]

update, I think I'm getting close. I swapped the camera from input 5 to input 16 to move its channel as far away from the problem channel as I could think signal channel in MgHz. Still happened. The towers in the video are for 1110 wbtv am and are less than a mile from the cam with no metal obstruction at all. That radio station switches from 50,000 omnidirectional watts to 50,000 north and south only directional watts every night. I'm making a faraday cage for the cam to prove the theory and will test shortly.

[tomcctv 190]

update, I think I'm getting close. I swapped the camera from input 5 to input 16 to move its channel as far away from the problem channel as I could think signal channel in MgHz. Still happened. The towers in the video are for 1110 wbtv am and are less than a mile from the cam with no metal obstruction at all. That radio station switches from 50,000 omnidirectional watts to 50,000 north and south only directional watts every night. I'm making a faraday cage for the cam to prove the theory and will test shortly.

 

Hi a faraday cage is not the problem ..... if the camera 8 inch way from it has no problems.

 

 

What happend when you swap both cameras over .... put good one we’re bad one is. You only need to swap cables over.

 

What type of baluns did you use and what is the distance of cable run .... and do both cameras have there own cable or have you just used 1 cat5 for both

[libram 0]

mostly closed faraday cage shows marked improvement, the camera 8 inches away is on the other side of a 1 inch steel I beam, also directly in the path of the radio transmitter that changes from 50k watts Omni to 50k watts directional north and south. camera has clear path to the radio transmitter 300 yards away. Every camera is a single cat5e run with high quality power/video baluns. No runs are longer than 100 meters. All cameras are isolated from building grounds and all cabling is new. Camera still exhibits the same symptoms after trying a new camera and moving the cam to the furthest away from its position input on dvr to see if another frequency was affected.

 

I've pretty well isolated this to one of those unique things, the cam is in the direct path of a 50k watt am radio that goes directional, customer will make the call on changing location, dealing with, or trying a gb-1 rfi isolator (says it kills radio on cctv) from fm systems but its a 250.00 gamble.

[tomcctv 190]

So you have baluns like this

[libram 0]

https://teledataexpress.com/Item/111326TV

these but yes cate5 cctv baluns.

[tomcctv 190]

Hi..I would start by swapping the baluns .... your talking of 100m with power

 

How many pairs is it using for power .... and why do you need fancy lights on a balun .... what size is your power supply amps

 

Balun with lightning protection ???

 

You have honeycomb effect usually seen when a balun is not used

[libram 0]

actual run length is probably only 295 foot, baluns use 2 pair for video 2 for power, power supply is 18 channel and either 10 or 12 amps. More than large enough. I didn't design them, they have lights, lightning protection, why not, its just a fast clamping gas tube same as we've used in telco for over 100 years. I could believe it was hardware.......except it does it at the predicted (they change daily) times of sunset to sunrise. I guess its possible the baluns are affected by the signal not the cam but I cant ignore that its not the hardware that is the cause of the issue, only the symptom. Also have already swapped the dvr side of the balun with no change. Signal from the cam is 100% clear 1080p CVI from sunrise to sunset and I don't mean sunrise as in when the IR switches, it does this in IR and color mode. Sunrise like 7:11 AM this coming morning.

[tomcctv 190]

You can’t use two pair for video it does not work.

 

Power supply is not good enough

 

You need to sort out the basics first.

 

Why use baluns that need to be powered just for status lights ..... power that is better used for camera.

 

Baluns with lightning protection.... that is crap ....

 

On that cam ..., use standard balun with no power use only 1 pair of cat5 and use the rest for power on a 12v 5amp power supply ....... power not going through balun .... use one without pig tail

[libram 0]

jesus man, you cant help but be condescending can you. And without even comprehending the problem. Let me ask this simple question then, if 16 cameras are in operation, and each camera has a MAX draw of .7 amp how would a 12 amp power supply not be sufficient? Since electrical rules are static math .7 x 16 = 11.2 and that would only be the case if every single camera was pulling its absolute maximum power all at the same time. Maybe the baluns are 1 pair for video and 3 for power, or maybe they are two pair and duplexed inside the balun it doesn't really matter, they are engineered, tested, and they work, they've worked on every camera I've put them on. HUNDREDS of cameras. I don't need an opinion of what you like in a balun, or what you don't it has no bearing on the issue that this cam has that I nor anyone else that has read this seems to have seen before. As I said I saw marked improvement using that cage as the only change, this is an RFI problem.

[tomcctv 190]

Wow ..... 100s of cameras and you can't even wire up a balun

 

Industry standards is 1 pair .... The right way and the only way for a balun to work

 

Power ....... 16 at 10-12amp ........ You can't even figure that one out and over that distance.

 

 

Faraday cage ..... Well I can guarantee you are the first in the whole wide world to do it. Biggest load of crap ever.

 

And you call me condescending.......... And you can't even install to standard

 

Power supply ...... 0.7 amp over that distance on each .......... You have not taken into account surge or IR ...... 0.7 amp is useless

 

 

Let's do a pole

 

 

baluns 1 pair or 2 for video .............answer 1

 

power is 0.7 amp good enough for long distance IR. .........answer no.

 

Let's see what others say

[libram 0]

READ and quit jumping to irrational conclusions

the run is like 195 foot, .7 amp is the MAX draw of the camera MAX means MAX it WILL NOT CONSUME more than .7 whats the excess required to push on 195 foot of multi pair 24 awg THATS NOT RUNNING IR!? Its negligible. You came into my own post this time with your crap. Leave it! you're one of the type of installers that I come in behind and fix, spliced wires, stripped cat5 draped all around screw down baluns and the like. I tried to be nice but I'm over it. Go about your business and I'll correct this problem, since I've actually found the issue. Your input and OPIONIONS (not facts) are NOT needed and are COMPLETELY unwelcome!

and just for my jollies you go do your pole...............I'm sure your level on actual knowledge qualifies you for dancing on it

meanwhile if you would like to conduct a poll that's where you ask a group of people questions and get answers.

[tomcctv 190]

READ and quit jumping to irrational conclusions

the run is like 195 foot, .7 amp is the MAX draw of the camera MAX means MAX it WILL NOT CONSUME more than .7 whats the excess required to push on 195 foot of multi pair 24 awg THATS NOT RUNNING IR!? Its negligible. You came into my own post this time with your crap. Leave it! you're one of the type of installers that I come in behind and fix, spliced wires, stripped cat5 draped all around screw down baluns and the like. I tried to be nice but I'm over it. Go about your business and I'll correct this problem, since I've actually found the issue. Your input and OPIONIONS (not facts) are NOT needed and are COMPLETELY unwelcome!

and just for my jollies you go do your pole...............I'm sure your level on actual knowledge qualifies you for dancing on it

meanwhile if you would like to conduct a poll that's where you ask a group of people questions and get answers.

 

 

 

Trust me no one want you to come in behind them for you to fix

 

Can't wire a balun ..... Your own admition

 

Don't understand power your own admition

 

Faraday cages ....... That is the best ....

 

 

If you do a line up of 5 installers I bet I could pic you out of the line

You will be the one with tin foil on his head.

 

 

 

And the sad thing is you don't agree with install standards

[libram 0]

what standards first off , as far as I see most of you run around and do what you want with little clue as to how communications/electricity/TIE-EIA standards work. You wanna know how to actually install a cctv system over cat5 I'll make you a drawing so you can follow

DVR -> balun -> patch cord-> patch panel (now you're using actual standardized wiring)-> cable -> jack or rj45 end-> balun-> camera

NO Splices, NO split pairs, NO BULL**** NO PROBLEMS. Unless something is odd.......like this

And don't start with where is the power it goes into the balun and you know it.

Are you a licensed low voltage tech? Are you a licensed electrician? Do you know the applicable codes and why we use them, have you been working with video and data transmission since its first inceptions of computer modems for data and BRI for video? I do, I AM and I was. So for the last time, beat it with your assumptions, and condemnations I have a friggin radio antennae 600 feet tall 900 feet from my camera blasting 50,000 watts at it with nothing in between and its not RFI and a proven technology that's only as old as Nicola Tesla is a tin foil hat. " title="Applause" />

[tomcctv 190]

You wanna know how to actually install a cctv system over cat5 I'll make you a drawing

 

Please don't .....you can't even install your own right.

 

don't start with where is the power it goes into the balun and you know it.

 

Wrong Infact it passes through the balun case nothing to do with balun.

 

 

Use a good balun use proper power supply and it fixes

0.7amp over that distance is your problem

 

But no 50.000 watts is your problem.

 

Would it be easier for me to explain it to your customer....... Save them having to go through the cost of faraday crap

[libram 0]

I'm going to try this one more time as rational adult. If tom cant handle that then I don't know what else to say. I posted this issue not because its just something to figure out but because its something odd, not normal, not anything that I've ever actually seen before. The issue is NOT the following as they have all been tried with other replacements with no difference. The camera, the baluns, the power supply, the cable, the cable route, the dvr input, the ir of the camera being on and or off, the camera having a ground loop both via isolating the camera from metal itself and a loop isolator, the lights in the area of the camera and cabling being off. There is obvious visual distortion that occurs if the cam is in IR or color, it disappears at specific times every day. There is an outside source causing the camera to behave this way every single day on a predictable schedule. This is not a hardware issue, its not an install issue, its an outside source that is consistent. Tom if you disagree, I will agree to disagree and lets leave it there. If you do however agree and can provide any constructive advice I will be as polite as possible.

As it stands right now there is an actual observable improvement with a cage, I will meet with the site and let them see the images, and them them decide if they see the same. If so they have the option of cam reposition perhaps an inch or two higher and further back under a steel deck can clear it , deal with it, or possibly try a filter if they MUST have that exact angle.

 

Tom you're also technically correct, a balun is a balanced impedence joint, however when power and data or video are pigtailed into a single device its ok to call it a balan even though its technically a power pass through to rj45 24-26 awg pairs over category 5e. That however doesn't really flow off the tongue so balun works ok when they are contained in the same structure.

[tomcctv 190]

The problem is you don't even try and see if it works ....... You are obsessed with 50.000 watts from a tower ...........and to be honest like you have just said in your last post if you move the camera by a inch might fix it....... Sit back in your chair and think about that .

 

 

Something else you have posted 26 gauge cat5 ..... No repeatable CCTV engineer or network engineer would ever use that for an install ever Infact it has no reason to be in the industry anymore ..... We're am from licence does not allow it.

 

And that problem also takes you back to the 0.7 amp using that cable makes it worse.

 

Your using cvi cameras let me give you an example which might also let you think of your problem.

 

A building with 4 cvi cameras on each corner ..... Say the minimum is 1 amp each that's 12v 4amp power supply ...... Not big enough. It might do the job and show a little interference nothing to be bothered about. But look at why there might be a little interference....... Cvi need a little more amps when it starts to work....... Cloud cover cam 1 person goes past cam 2 car goes past cam 3 .............all 3 cameras need a little more amp ..... Your power supply is already at its max but as cam 4 is not doing extra work it's amps will drop going to the rest of the cameras ....... Cam 4 has lost amps and that will show as interference......... Well not interference just not enough amps to run properly

 

And it's the same with IR 4 cameras minimum 1 amp 12v 4amp power supply

No allowance has been made for power surge ..... Two cams switch on IR at same time the other two will show a problem ...... Only for a second or so but a problem.

 

Your system 16 cameras on 12v 12amp power supply only gives 0.75 amp each camera you are already at the max ......

You can under amp a cam but never over amp

 

 

And before you sort any of that out. It does not matter how you see it.....it is under powered and on wrong cable and for $10 more for a 12v 40amp 16way power supply giving 2.5amp each camera ...... But your cat5 will be hard at that distance....

 

But like in my first post ...... On that camera change balun for none rj45 type use 1 pair for video not two ( you never use 2) and the rest on power with Screw on power plug and use 1 12v 5amp power supply for that camera

 

Or go 24v AC at dvr end and convert back at cameras end .... That will also solve your problem

[libram 0]

Power loss over cable length, yeah its a real thing I get that but again this isn't a problem that comes and goes with activity, or IR usage, or anything else. if I said 26 and I was wrong then fine, I was wrong, truth is I don't pay any attention to my 5e gauge because its always belden or commscope, or another major manufacturer. I've been working with it so long I can tell by feel it its cat 5/5e/or 6 without lookin at the label. Maybe its 22 maybe 24 I really don't look since its not some cheapo cable, I wont use something that doesn't feel like it should and I don't cheap out on cable its what makes things work.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Guest

[tomcctv 190]

one thing at a time...... what you are saying is that a camera, that has a MAX draw of .7 amps will actually draw more than .7 amps when it switches to IR? Just wanna be clear.

 

 

Everything that has additional power pull like IR or filter move yes needs more power .....not a lot and not long term but it will pull more ..... Called surge

 

 

But you are missing the point. 0.7 amp power supply 0.7 amp camera ......yes that's a match.

 

But you have taken nothing into account ....... You have not taken into account cable length cable size (you say 26) and another you powered baluns (why buy baluns with lights on when it's never needed) there just cheap.

 

0.7amp at power supply ...... First balun power ...... 26cat .......second balun power ........ Will not give you 0.7 at camera. Baluns with a stupid gimmick lights that have no purpose.

 

Cheap baluns ....... 26 cat........ Power supply at limit ........= cheap install no room for any allowance...... Let's say in a few weeks you go back and replace a camera with a 1 amp ........ You can't