Need camera suggestions

[jbak 0]

See my post below.

 

These are some of the cams I looked at so far.

 

CVC-627 IR Night Vision Camera

 

Extreme CCTV WZ14 Compact Day-Night

Edited August 7, 2006 by Guest

[rory 0]

probably the WZ in this case, but that said, i wouldnt use either of them, there are better choices for the price.

 

PS. replaced the retail links with manu links due to the rules.

[jbak 0]

Can you name all the cameras you think are better choice for the price?

[rory 0]

Whats the application?

Where will they be mounted?

What lighting is available?

What is the environment like (hot, snow, etc)?

What is the budget?

[jbak 0]

Whats the application?

 

To discretely monitor an industrial facility after hours. Consists of an office space with an entrance and a main industrial area that's about 7,500 sq. ft. (like a hangar), which also has a separate entrance.

 

We have materials like precious metals that have been disappearing and a strong suspicion that some of the employees have been taking them, possibly after hours. They're stored all over the place so we have to keep an eye on the whole area and be able to see what's going on in case someone shows up after work. It is a requirement that all cameras be installed discretely as to not arouse any suspicion, otherwise the responsible employees would become more careful if an openly visible system is installed.

 

Also to catch any thieves, as we already had a break in incident before.

 

Where will they be mounted?

 

One will be discretely installed in the office in front of the main entrance. I'm thinking a wall clock is the only inconspicuous option, but don't know about its picture quality and whether it can see at night. Three more cameras will be overlooking the large open industrial area, hidden in cracks in wall insulation about 15-25 feet up, with one pointed directly at the entrance and the others overlooking the whole place in general.

 

This is roughly how it looks just to get you an idea.

 

 

What lighting is available?

 

Fairly bright if main lights are turned on. Otherwise no light whatsoever at night, pitch black, you wouldn't see anything in front of your face. Unless someone turns on the main lighting, there's zero light. But, cameras have to be able to operate fine if the lights ARE turned on too. The cameras would also operate in the mornings and evenings when only daylight is coming in so it's fairly dark also.

 

What is the environment like (hot, snow, etc)?

 

Up to 130 degrees on bad days in the summer, walls probably get even hotter. In the winter the hangar temperature pretty much mirrors whatever is outside, down to below freezing. All cameras are for indoor use so there's no water or other elements.

 

What is the budget?

 

The cameras I looked at so far were up to 150 per camera. If there's a good reason to go higher, we would, but we have to be practical and consider how long they would last in these conditions.

 

I have to say that from what I've seen so far black bullet cams would be the easiest to install and hide. But I have no idea if they could even see the whole place, let alone at night. I know they don't even have IR for true day/night operation. We are not really concerned about seeing the whole place at night without lights on, but at least the entrances should be clearly visible even in total darkness (so up to 30 ft night visibility with IR).

 

Another thing is that they should operate in color in day mode.

 

So, what are my options? If you're thinking "your price range is ridiculous, your only option is X, but it costs Y", I'd like to know that too, so we can make an informed decision. If the investment is worth it.

 

Forgot to mention, all cameras will be wired and go to a DVR card.

Edited August 7, 2006 by Guest

[rory 0]

Ill have to look at this closer later on tonight, but straight off black cameras in 130 degrees wont last ... also $150 camera is what is known as the ultimate cheapest, normally only sell these to home users, not businesses, and definately not industrial. Anyway will take a closer look later on.

[jbak 0]

Something you've probably heard hundreds of times, but boss says "do it cheap but so it's good enough."

 

I take this as:

 

a) color

b) day/night visibility

c) can see in distance

d) doesn't die from heat

[rory 0]

Clock Camera - you could get a BW then add seperate IR, or see if you can find one that is Color/Bw, it wont be true day night but for just indoors should be okay; will still need to add IR. Extreme CCTV has some IR Cubes in their WizKid line, they do around 20-30'. Otherwise you could look for an OEM IR LED .. some of them come in a small bullet type housing, or even a mini dome. Also you could look at a motion detector camera, OEMs are normally non functional, if you want a functionin one then GE has some of them, just Color or BW though, no Day Night.

 

Entrance If there is light coming through then you really need Wide DYnamic, if you cant afford that though, then you cant point it at the entrance as you wont see much from the glare. Wide Dynamic's arent cheap, Pano has a box and a vandal dome version, though from the look of things you cant mount the dome in there... so then the box cam wont be discreet.

 

Heat Once its not a black housing it should be okay. Cheaper OEM cameras generally dont last that long anyway ... cheaper internal parts such as the CCD Chip for example. May get a good 2 years out of those types.

 

General IR Cameras The best IR generally is still Extreme but i think thats going to be out of your range .. from the initial price post you mentioned .. they are like 10 times that price...

 

Ive used the Eclipse Day Night IR bullets, the IR goes around 30-40' and it does have a mech filter .. retail cost probably double the price you mentioned. They arent high end or anything, but could do the job for now, they are silver, and just OEM. Infact you can find the same exact camera at many other OEMs, just get the one that has the Mechanical IR Cut Filter as there are a couple versions. Otherwise id say the EX82 w/ White housing, but then thats not too discreet. Once again none of these can be pointed direct at an entrance due to back lighting.

 

Warehouses typically get alot of glare coming through (down here at least) so you might want to rethink the discreet option for those cameras ...

 

You can always add additional IR also, just depends on what camera you use, how well it picks up the IR light.

 

LAstly, make sure the cameras are 1/3" CCD .. not CMOS or 1/4" ..

 

Rory

[jbak 0]

Would something like this work then for day/night?

 

http://www.eclipsecctv.com/ECL-598HIM.html

 

http://www.eclipsecctv.com/ECL-599.html

 

Don't they have visible leds?

 

Since you mention light from doors problem, we can install the entrance cams to the side or behind doors to avoid that. There's a lot of flexibility about where they can go.

 

And about motion detection. Isn't it the DVR card's job to detect motion and trigger recording? If I get a geovision card would it do that? Or is there a need for special camera or separate motion detector?

[CSG 0]

Rory,

 

I don't see what the color of the camera or housing has to do with anything, especially if it's mounted indoors.

[rory 0]

If its outside in the sun light and a black housing, it will fry .... well they do down here, from experience ..

[rory 0]

Would something like this work then for day/night?

 

http://www.eclipsecctv.com/ECL-598HIM.html

 

http://www.eclipsecctv.com/ECL-599.html

 

Don't they have visible leds?

 

Since you mention light from doors problem, we can install the entrance cams to the side or behind doors to avoid that. There's a lot of flexibility about where they can go.

 

And about motion detection. Isn't it the DVR card's job to detect motion and trigger recording? If I get a geovision card would it do that? Or is there a need for special camera or separate motion detector?

 

Yes you see the LEDs, the 598HIm is the one i was talking about. You need 900+nm IR for it to be invisible, would need high end Infrared at that point (big$$ ExtremeCCTV).

 

Motion Detector was just an idea instead of the clock, plus then you can get a real motion detector which is better than video motion ...

[jbak 0]

Are there any good bullet cams without IR? We could just get a couple of flood lights with motion detectors to put by the entrances.

 

And btw, yes, all cams are mounted indoors with no direct sunlight exposure. Any heat they get will be from the walls and air, so I'm thinking color probably won't matter.

[kensplace 0]

If your broken into, then the thieves may just take the DVR or PC with DVR card in it, and all your footage is gone. So you would also need to look into having the footage transferred offsite by the dvr/pc, so if its stolen you have a second copy.