Lorex (Dahua) LNE8974A - Awful

[Quantum 0]

Just installed my first Lorex and the picture is awful.  Has a Sony Exmore R sensor so I had hopes for night quality.

Since they are stupidly not calibrating these at the factory I have no doubt they're getting most of them returned.

Is this just a calibration problem?  How should I go about fixing this, if it is possible?  I want to capture license plates so a more closed iris would be ideal.  The camera does have WDR and indeed headlights are not washing out license plates, but the plate is blank white at night.  And smeary during the day.  I'd attach a night image but the forum won't let me as it's too much data.

There is no firmware update, probably because of the commercial failure of this camera.

[Quantum 0]

Here's night.  Poor contrast.  Can't read the plate.  The focus is the best I could make it.  Barrel distortion on the sides.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Quantum

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. Why do they need calibrating.... your supposed to set them up yourself.

 

can I ask what you are running them on ....pc or nvr.

 

are you changing the resolution at night time 

 

lorex are another company starting to over price themselves out of the market 

[Quantum 0]

Running it on a CentOS KVM virtual machine and ZoneMinder, but this is the direct RTSP stream locally in VLC.

Not changing res at night.

I got these for $130 each, and now I see why.  Another reason is in its Questions they respond that it will only work in their NVR.  Not true of course but that's the first thing most buyers see.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Quantum

[tomcctv 190]

Well that’s your problem........RTSP stream. 

 

Why are you messing around with VCL

also no camera functions with zoneminder

also running at wrong compression.

 

its easy to blame the product....than to set it up right.

 

and to give you a hint on not setup your images are nothing like 2mp never mind 8mp

Edited January 3, 2019 by tomcctv

[Quantum 0]

Are you kidding me?  RTSP is the problem?  VLC is the problem?  ZoneMinder is the problem?  H.264 is the problem?

No.  None of these is the problem.  RTSP is the core stream, VLC is the only way to view it in Linux and works fine, Lorex makes no Web viewer addon for Linux (they say there is one compressed with .tar.gz but it does not exist), this camera streams fine to ZoneMinder (as has every other camera I've connected to it), and -- do I have to defend H.264?  Really?

The problem is something is wrong with your attitude tomcctv.

In this case either the calibrations are way off, or the camera is a loser.  I came here asking for the best way to go about calibrating this as, someone with experience may recognize one or two adjustments that will make all the difference.

If not, back they all go, no ifs, ands, buts.

[tomcctv 190]

No .... if you come on with camera awful then there has to be a reason.

 

calibrating is done on the camera ... it’s done while installing 

does zoneminder do 4k yet ?

does it do h265  ?

RTSP ..... I think you will find onvif is the best way 

 

explain why you should defend h264 ? Are you using 4k

 

20 minutes ago, Quantum said:

The problem is something is wrong with your attitude tomcctv

Why ..... because you don’t like to hear that your cameras are not compatible with what you using with them. 

 

So your expecting 8mp/4k on equipment that can’t get you there

30 minutes ago, Quantum said:

I came here asking for the best way to go about calibrating this as, someone with experience may recognize 

You will need to load software for cam onto pc 

then go into settings .....being on zoneminder I would also drop resolution down to 4mp .... not 8. 

Then go into camera zoom and move far out then in and then set it to distance needed then click save

[Quantum 0]

Well that made a helluva difference, zooming in/out.  That's not in the manual.

But the brights are still washed-out.  It's not a bright day.

Kicking gamma down to zero made it look almost lifelike, but didn't help the brights.  The forum wouldn't let me upload another picture to illustrate.

Also for audio, there's a constant burbling, just like a running stream.  But there is no stream.  Bird calls and dog barks are fine, but the stream is running all the time, and cars going by don't sound like cars but the stream only gets louder.  SURELY this burbling isn't from the storm sewer there forward in the picture?

I can't find any evidence that there's an Onvif video stream.  It seems to be only for setup and control.  There's no ZoneMinder config for this camera, only for a similar 4Mp version.  I had all set right except 32bit color rather than 24bit.  Corrected, and the RTSP stream in ZoneMinder is identical to the one in VLC of course.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Quantum

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. You can’t run and get best image while using RTSP 

 

and you camera 100% has the latest onvif and you need to be using it to set image quality..... you can’t with RTSP 

 

what resolution are you running the camera and are you h264 or 5

 

its nothing wrong with the camera ....it’s not a comparable setup

[Quantum 0]

There is no alternative to RTSP streaming other than web browser, and as I say there is no web plugin for Linux.  Linux is what we run.  And in the Lorex firmware it spells out the stream URL as:

rtsp://<Username>:<Password>@<IP Address>:<Port>/cam/realmonitor?channel=1&subtype=0

channel: Channel1-1; subtype: Code-Stream Type, Main Stream 0, Sub Stream 1.

 

I'm using the camera webpage to make settings.  Set in browser and view in VLC.  I'm sure that ZoneMinder can do Onvif settings but I haven't learned that yet.

Yes I'm running 8Mp, and yes it's Dahua's H.264H.  I've also tried H.264 but see no difference although haven't checked bandwidth.  ZoneMinder can't yet do H.265 of course.  And I'm running VBR.

If I get this stabilized I'm going to switch to UDP.  Have plenty of network bandwidth, CPU & memory, but UDP is just better for this sort of thing.

I've found out the 'burbling stream' is actually traffic noise from the freeway.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Quantum

[tomcctv 190]

40 minutes ago, Quantum said:

There is no alternative to RTSP streaming other than web browser, and as I say there is no web plugin for Linux.  Linux is what we run.

Which is what I said in first post ....... it’s not the camera it’s the equipment 

 

no point you going h264h on zoneminder ...... that camera is h265 

h264h and h264+ and h265 are the same but different code.

so your best going into camera settings and switching to h264 and then lower your resolution down to 2mp with FPS at 15. This will be the best settings for zoneminder and better for night image.

 

but you will not get it to run 100% on zoneminder and Linux 

 

[Quantum 0]

Ok I've reduced res to 4M (2699x1520) and it's fine.  Almost realistic.

I've done bandwidth measurements with jnettop, with and without High H.264, and it remains around 300-500Kb/s at CBR, quality 6(Best), 15fps, and bitrate of 10240, the highest this camera will allow.  I wish it would allow a higher bitrate, but if wishes were fishes...

Now that I've tested I can set it back to VBR. 

Burbling audio even set to AAC.

Big question now is can I read license plates, even at night?  That is my prime directive.

 

tomcctv, clearly you have a bias against Linux, and so it is necessary to discount that.  My software has much more direct and less digested presentation of this signal.  I do enterprise systems security for a living, and pay cash or check for most everything in my life because of what I know. 

We all make our own decisions, but what separates the Men from the Boys is whether we are able to respect the rational decisions of others.

In any case, thanks for your help here.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Quantum

[tomcctv 190]

15 minutes ago, Quantum said:

tomcctv, clearly you have a bias against Linux, and so it is necessary to discount that.  My software has much more direct and less digested presentation of this signal.

So how did you come to that conclusion 

 

so your saying  it’s my fault dahua camera does not like Linux 

 

my only point is it won’t work on Linux at its full capacity as you have found out

24 minutes ago, Quantum said:

I wish it would allow a higher bitrate, but if wishes were fishes...

But it does ...... but you can’t run h265 or understand it

its not about bitrate..... it’s half the compression more data

27 minutes ago, Quantum said:

We all make our own decisions, but what separates the Men from the Boys is whether we are able to respect the rational decisions of others.

What are you going on about .....???

i give you help and I am in the wrong 

—————————————————-

 

i see from your other posts you have give others a hard time  while giving you advice.

 

your problem is like this post .... blame the equipment instead of learning from your mistakes. 

 

You can go back over my posts from years ago. You will see we bought from dahua even before they called them self’s dahua   ... I think on this forum there are only another two members with access to there ftp site and we have also used the cameras in your post hence why I know the back door to settings. There is a Linux beta on the ftp site soon to be released 

[Quantum 0]

I respond to criticism with criticism, like the president of the US.  We disagree about the value of Linux and the RTSP datastream, it's as simple as that.

This camera was awful and I actually said that because it was true.  You helped me fix that and I am grateful.

I recognize the technical value of H.265, but it is not available to me.  If you know of other NVR software that actually works in Linux I'd like to try it.

[tomcctv 190]

11 minutes ago, Quantum said:

I respond to criticism with criticism, like the president of the US.  We disagree about the value of Linux and the RTSP datastream, it's as simple as that.

What criticism.  And what have I said bad about Linux. 

 

Lets start with RTSP stream. It is the lowest and worst for cctv hence onvif.... it gives control of camera it allows full stream and commands...... you can disagree all day long ...... but it’s the best option 

 

Linux...... nothing wrong with it .....it is just not good for communicating with your camera.  ..... that is not criticism it’s a fact

same with zoneminder..... it’s not good enough to run your camera at it’s full performance 

mots not the cameras fault and it’s not my fault. But I think I have explained to you what the problem is and given you enough advice to get your camera running at a better level on Linux and zoneminder...... something you could not do without the advice...... but let’s call advice criticism.... you seem happy that way.

[Quantum 0]

Ok I'll learn Onvif.  My impression was that it's a general standard, with all the compromises that implies.  But you do this every day so it's worth looking in to.

I've got the color about as good as I can get.  Had to crank gamma way down to 20 and saturation down to 40.  Still doesn't look natural, or what I would call 'rich'.

I can't help but to think that exposure might be the problem.  I'd be happy to set the iris manually down to some quick number (improving the chances for license plates), but I'm concerned that it would also affect night.  There don't seem to be different night settings.

 

[Quantum 0]

I've found the problem.  The camera's auto-iris function is busted.  I've set gamma and saturation back to 50, then set Exposure to Manual and Shutter from 1/30 of a second (the longest) to 1/1000.  Now the picture looks fairly natural.  Why it didn't budge off of 1/30 in daylight is a mystery.

A shorter exposure time also has a better chance at getting license plates.

Only thing is it can not automatically adapt.  And what will happen at night is probably a problem.

But the auto-iris function is busted.  And there is no newer firmware.

 

[tomcctv 190]

31 minutes ago, Quantum said:

But the auto-iris function is busted.  And there is no newer firmware.

Is it. And how did you come to that conclusion?

 

33 minutes ago, Quantum said:

Only thing is it can not automatically adapt.  And what will happen at night is probably a problem.

This is going to be good..................why can your camera not automatically adapt. And what software are you running it on ?

 

and can I point out THAT your last image is nowhere like 4mp image. I have seen better 1mp images than that. It will not pic up a plate

[Quantum 0]

I came to that conclusion the way I described above.

It can't automatically adapt because of the behavior I described above.  Is that good?

I had to reduce the image size in Gimp by 70% so the forum would allow me to post it here.

[tomcctv 190]

3 hours ago, Quantum said:

I came to that conclusion the way I described above.

 It can't automatically adapt because of the behavior I described above.  Is that good?

I love the way you blame everything on something else.

 

busted iris........ it is fixed not busted

 

you can’t run software compatible with camera

[Quantum 0]

Aaalways a pleasure...

I am running software 'compatible with camera'.  I can see the picture, set zones, notifications, and everything.  You're just racially prejudiced.

But again, if you know of better software for Linux that actually works I'm all ears.  Again, I am a security type and Windows is not an option.

And if there's a better image stream than rtsp as you obliquely imply, then speak, or kindly dismiss yourself from this thread.  In addition to 554 the camera also says it uses 35000/tcp and 35001/udp, but nothing anywhere says what type of streams these might be.  And nmap does not find these to be open ports on the camera.

So it is your expert opinion that this image, is the auto-iris working properly.  With all settings on Auto.  And that the fault is with Linux and ZoneMinder and RTSP.

Even though, when in the camera's web setup I manually set iris from the 1/30 that it is for this image (wide open), to 1/1000 as it is in my prior post.  You say that my system is casting out its malevolent influence to the innocent helpless camera (through a closed firewall -- eh, ZoneMinder is receive-only), and that my system is inserting its slimy fingers to interfere with and prevent the faultless camera from operating properly and as all the rest of them like it do.

I pray sir, that you must have never owned this model.

[tomcctv 190]

34 minutes ago, Quantum said:

You're just racially prejudiced.

For the rest of the thread readers.........how have I been racist ....... And I take offence to that. You are out of order at this point.

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Let's take a look at your last post .

47 minutes ago, Quantum said:

And if there's a better image stream than rtsp as you obliquely imply, then speak. 

I have done in a few posts ..... But again ONVIF......... Will give you full control/ better stream / allow all data. rtsp is basic stream basic data you have no control

 

52 minutes ago, Quantum said:

In addition to 554 the camera also says it uses 35000/tcp and 35001/udp, but nothing anywhere says what type of streams these might be.

You might not like this answer .........Infact you should be embarrassed asking it

they are ports not streams.

 

can I ask why you bought a 4K camera and your happy with only having 4mp at 12fps ...... You can't use colour day and night as you can't use the software for the colour night.

 

this might be better advice for you ........buy 4mp standard cameras ......because that's what you have ended up with...... Paying for 4K with having no software to run them at that resolution 

 

i dont know  why I am continuing to help you .....with your remarks throughout this post. When all I have done is give you advice

but you might want to install this and learn it ...........its new but the guys are working on it all the time ....... It's a ONVIF program for Linux 

 

https://flathub.org/apps/details/net.meijn.onvifviewer

[Quantum 0]

46 minutes ago, tomcctv said:

For the rest of the thread readers.........how have I been racist ....... And I take offence to that. You are out of order at this point.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's take a look at your last post .

I have done in a few posts ..... But again ONVIF......... Will give you full control/ better stream / allow all data. rtsp is basic stream basic data you have no control

Oh don't be a baby.  It was an allusion to your hatred of Linux.  In jest.  Everybody else could see that.

I've studied Onvif now at your suggestion.  Onvif would give some control over camera settings, but there is no difference in the stream.  Surprise, it is still RTSP.  There is no other transport stream protocol used by these cameras.  Onvif only adds remote controls.

Clearly in this case the camera does not auto-iris for some reason.

If I leave it set Manual at 1/1000, of course at night it's almost completely black.

The reason it's not color at night is that it's rather dark and I have a decent-sized IR flood above it.

 

Quote

You might not like this answer .........Infact you should be embarrassed asking it

they are ports not streams.

We're not communicating here...

 

Quote

can I ask why you bought a 4K camera and your happy with only having 4mp at 12fps ...... You can't use colour day and night as you can't use the software for the colour night.

 

this might be better advice for you ........buy 4mp standard cameras ......because that's what you have ended up with...... Paying for 4K with having no software to run them at that resolution 

Eh, you told me to set it to 4Mp.  I had bought an 8Mp camera naively thinking it would do what they say, particularly coming from a Canadian company related to Flir.  Maybe there's some other secret like zooming it in to calibrate, IDK.

I am looking -directly- at the transport stream using VLC, which is what I take the screenshots from.  There is no processing or thinking allowed, it's pure from the camera.  I do have to reduce them though for presentation here due to restrictions of the forum.

So when manually setting iris, fixes it, this wouldn't be any different through Onvif.  Changing it in Onvif or changing it in the camera's web interface make no difference in the end result.  This is what I'm questioning.

There may be some other Linux NVR that I can install for trial.  I'll look.

 

Quote

i dont know  why I am continuing to help you .....with your remarks throughout this post. When all I have done is give you advice

but you might want to install this and learn it ...........its new but the guys are working on it all the time ....... It's a ONVIF program for Linux 

 

https://flathub.org/apps/details/net.meijn.onvifviewer

I went to install it but it began installing KDE 5.11.  I run a conservative OS which is very stable but has KDE 4.14.8.  Can't have two versions of this major function working at cross-purposes.

 

[tomcctv 190]

1 hour ago, Quantum said:

I've studied Onvif now at your suggestion.  Onvif would give some control over camera settings, but there is no difference in the stream.  Surprise, it is still RTSP.  There is no other transport stream protocol used by these cameras.  Onvif only adds remote controls.

RTSP and ONVIF are streams ........ And if your saying that your 4K camera only does RTSP ....... Let's leave it as that......... I don't think dahua would produce a camera that can't be used on most NVRs which on ONVIF.

but we will leave it to what you believe

1 hour ago, Quantum said:

Clearly in this case the camera does not auto-iris for some reason.

And again in a earlier post .......that camera DOES NOT have a auto iris. It is a fixed iris. 

 

1 hour ago, Quantum said:

We're not communicating here...

Well again if you think that 554 35000 35001 are streams .... Then nothing else can be said ...........but I can say 99.9% of people reading this post will agree with me that they are NETWORK PORTS. 

 

1 hour ago, Quantum said:

There may be some other Linux NVR that I can install for trial.  I'll look.

90% of standalone NVRs are Linux based so that's not a problem.......but I will worn you that you have to run that camera ONVIF.....it's the protocol

 

1 hour ago, Quantum said:

I went to install it but it began installing KDE 5.11.  I run a conservative OS which is very stable but has KDE 4.14.8.  Can't have two versions of this major function working at cross-purposes.

It is only a ONVIF viewer. A NVR program it will run alongside........ Just like the way your using zoneminder........ No point you trying dahua beta then is there.

 

1 hour ago, Quantum said:

I had bought an 8Mp camera naively thinking it would do what they say, particularly coming from a Canadian company related to Flir.  Maybe there's some other secret like zooming it in to calibrate, IDK.

There is no secret. It's just you can't enter full menu.

flir have had nothing to do with lorex for a long time. Lorex is now a China company. Something else you can't get right

[Cortian 9]

4 hours ago, Quantum said:

You're just racially prejudiced.

That's completely out in left field, entirely unjustified and egregiously offensive. You owe @tomcctv an apology.