installing cameras on the garage

[jreid1492 0]

Hey guys,

Im new here and new to home ownership and security systems,. My wife and myself bought a house in our town that has a stupid crime rate and we want to attempt to protect our house with alarm and camera system. we have an alarm system picked out that we are going to go with but for camera system I am still not 100% decided. but am thinking about going with https://www.lorextechnology.com/security-camera-systems/4k-ultra-hd-ip-nvr-security-camera-system-with-8-ip-cameras/LNR1649KXB-1-p

With that being said there will be two cameras I want to put on the detached garage. Now I don't want to burry the cat5 cables from the house to the garage or run them from roof to roof. My question is that I came up with an idea of install a wifi extender in the garage(wifi in garage isn't the best anyways) with a network port on it, then I was going to run it to a POE switch, which in turn the cameras would connect to.

Would that allow me to connect the NVR to the cameras so they can be viewed in house from the NVR or from the mobile app?

Thanks in advance. 

 

[larry 2]

Wifi will eventually drive you crazy. 

That Lorex would work fine.

I know you don't want to bury cable but that will give you the best results. Why don't you want to bury cables?

 

[jreid1492 0]

I don't want to bury the cables for numerous reason. 1) just don't want to go through the hassle of it as there is a concrete patio that is between the house and the garage I would have to get under 2) if there is ever issues with the cable then im digging again 3) if we ever move then im buying new cables.

 

As for the wifi it would only be 2 maybe three cameras that would be on the garage. The rest would be hardwired to the nvr as they would be on the house. Also the cameras on the garage would be set to record only when motion is detected as they would be facing a back alley/storage area so not a lot of traffic back there. so there should be too much of an issue there. Even I got 720p video there I would be happy as they would be set close to what they are monitoring. 

 

But setting up that system as I described would work for the garage cameras?

Thanks

[larry 2]

Yes, in theory, that should work. Just locate the router as close to the garage cams as you can.

[jreid1492 0]

okay thank you. and the router is located maybe 100ft from the garage with a window between the too 

[51cent 8]

If the garage is on the same power breaker box as the house you could try powerline adapters.

Or something like the Ubiquiti nanostation should work.

[Cortian 9]

Larry is right about common consumer/residential WiFi will be disappointing.  If you want to backhaul your camera feeds from a detached structure to another (primary?) structure, there are three ways to go about it:

1. Ethernet (hardwired)
2. WiFi, point-to-point, dedicated
3. Powerline Ethernet adaptors

If Ethernet is out of the question, then you're left with (2) and (3).  Depending upon a variety of factors, one may work better for you than the other.

If you're going to try powerline Ethernet adaptors, I recommend not skimping.  From my research, it would appear Comtrend G.hn 1200 Mbps Powerline Ethernet Bridge Adapters are the most reliable.  Caveat: That's from research, not personal experience.  You'll also want to ensure that both ends are on the same power phase if you're on typical U.S. split-phase 240/120VAC power.

If you're going to try WiFi, DO NOT attempt to simply use a WiFi bridge talking to the typical home/residential/consumer WiFi router.  That will almost certainly result in disappointment.  Instead use dedicated 5GHz WiFi point-to-point devices, such as a pair of Ubiquiti NanoStation M5's.

Either way: One is plugged directly into either the (wired) LAN or NVR and the one in the detached structure connected to a PoE switch, which, in turn, goes to the cameras.

I think I'm just going to go ahead and order a pair of those Comtrend devices to play with.  I'm curious as to how well they'll work.  We've a shed about 50-75' from the back of the house I think it would be amusing to put a pair of cameras on--one pointing out back and the other looking back at the house.  I know the WiFi backhaul would work, but the powerline adaptors would be so much easier. (*click* *click*... *click*  Done!)

[jreid1492 0]

Okay so let me just get this straight:

using Ubiquiti NanoStation M5's that would be plugged into the nvr in the house then just the cameras plugged into a poe switch in the garage and that would allow the nvr to pick up the cameras on a dedicated network that would only be available to the nvr?

[jreid1492 0]

9 hours ago, 51cent said:

If the garage is on the same power breaker box as the house you could try powerline adapters.

Or something like the Ubiquiti nanostation should work.

the garage is powered off the main breaker panel in the house but it also as its own breaker panel in the garage that will be upgraded and switched in the near future as the garage panel is not capable to run 240v as it is right now

[Cortian 9]

13 minutes ago, jreid1492 said:

Okay so let me just get this straight:

using Ubiquiti NanoStation M5's that would be plugged into the nvr in the house then just the cameras plugged into a poe switch in the garage and that would allow the nvr to pick up the cameras on a dedicated network that would only be available to the nvr?

Crude ASCII network diagram:

LAN or NVR <-> PoE injector <-> NanoStation M5  <-/ WiFi signal /-> Nanostation M5 <-> PoE injector <-> PoE switch <-> cameras

The reason you need a separate PoE injector at the garage end, even though you'd have a PoE switch out there, already, is Ubiquity Nanostations don't employ the 802.3af/at PoE standards.  (I believe they come with the non-standard power injectors.)  If you don't want the clutter of the power injector at the garage end, you can purchase an Ubiquiti Instant 802.3af Gigabit Indoor PoE Converter, Model: INS-3AF-I-G PoE, and use one of the 802.3af/at ports on the PoE Etherswitch to power the Nanostation.

Mind you: For this to get reasonable bandwidth you'd need to have a fairly clear shot between the Nanostations.  If you try to shoot through too many RF-unfriendly obstructions, you might get less-than-satisfactory results.  Furthermore: I've never actually tried this.  Everything I know says it should work, but I've been surprised more times in my life than I'd care to count

 

[Cortian 9]

33 minutes ago, jreid1492 said:

the garage is powered off the main breaker panel in the house but it also as its own breaker panel in the garage that will be upgraded and switched in the near future as the garage panel is not capable to run 240v as it is right now

That is not necessarily critical.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to tell you how to build a watch so you'll understand what I'm telling you when I tell you the time

Residential power in the U.S. is nearly invariably what's called "split phase."  240VAC (nominal) single-phase power from a center-tapped transformer arrives at your distribution (aka: "breaker") panel.  One side of that goes to one side of the panel, the other to the other side.  The breaker boxes are designed such that every other breaker on each side is on the same side of the split phase.  Let's call them "L1" and "L2".  (Because that's how they're actually labelled ;).)

Between L1 or L2 and neutral is 120VAC.  Between L1 and L2 is 240VAC.  120VAC breakers connect only to L1 or L2, and neutral is used for the "return."  240VAC breakers connect to both L1 and L2.  (Either one could be said to be the supply or return. Supply/return really doesn't apply to L1/L2.)

Where powerline Ethernet adaptors (and a lot of powerline home automation gear, such as X10) run into trouble is when one node is on L1/neutral and the other is on L2/neutral.  The signals often don't make it across very well.

With that, now, perhaps, you'll understand this: That your garage has or will have it's own breaker panel isn't quite as critical as which side of the split phase power each adaptor ends-up on.

And, with this and my explanation of how a WiFi bridge might work for you, now perhaps you'll understand why I earlier wrote that either WiFi or powerline will work better, depending upon the particular site.

[51cent 8]

Cortian explained it much better than I could.

[Cortian 9]

jreid1492, I think the approach I'd take would be to order a Comtrend G.hn 1200 Mbps Powerline Ethernet Bridge Adapter 2-Unit Kit PG-9172KIT ($70 on Amazon) and test it.  Preferably by having something on the LAN and something in the garage so you can test the bandwidth and reliability.  If that worked I'd be good to go.

If it didn't work, I'd figure I could probably always find a use somewhere in the house for the powerline adaptors, then I'd move on to try the WiFi bridge solution.  That's a bit riskier, being as the Nanostations are close to $90/ea.

The PoE switch I chose for my surveillance system, btw, is the NetGear 5-Port Gigabit Ethernet Unmanaged Switch (GS305P).

[ak357 0]

2 hours ago, Cortian said:

That is not necessarily critical.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to tell you how to build a watch so you'll understand what I'm telling you when I tell you the time

Residential power in the U.S. is nearly invariably what's called "split phase."  240VAC (nominal) single-phase power from a center-tapped transformer arrives at your distribution (aka: "breaker") panel.  One side of that goes to one side of the panel, the other to the other side.  The breaker boxes are designed such that every other breaker on each side is on the same side of the split phase.  Let's call them "L1" and "L2".  (Because that's how they're actually labelled ;).)

Between L1 or L2 and neutral is 120VAC.  Between L1 and L2 is 240VAC.  120VAC breakers connect only to L1 or L2, and neutral is used for the "return."  240VAC breakers connect to both L1 and L2.  (Either one could be said to be the supply or return. Supply/return really doesn't apply to L1/L2.)

Where powerline Ethernet adaptors (and a lot of powerline home automation gear, such as X10) run into trouble is when one node is on L1/neutral and the other is on L2/neutral.  The signals often don't make it across very well.

With that, now, perhaps, you'll understand this: That your garage has or will have it's own breaker panel isn't quite as critical as which side of the split phase power each adaptor ends-up on.

And, with this and my explanation of how a WiFi bridge might work for you, now perhaps you'll understand why I earlier wrote that either WiFi or powerline will work better, depending upon the particular site.

3

"And, with this and my explanation of how a WiFi bridge might work for you"

It is not really WiFi 

 

[Cortian 9]

44 minutes ago, ak357 said:

"And, with this and my explanation of how a WiFi bridge might work for you"

It is not really WiFi 

 

Re: WiFi: I was referring to my previous reply. I kinda sorta know what WiFi is

[ak357 0]

41 minutes ago, Cortian said:

Re: WiFi: I was referring to my previous reply. I kinda sorta know what WiFi is

Instead use dedicated 5GHz WiFi point-to-point devices, such as a pair of Ubiquiti NanoStation M5's.

11 hours ago, Cortian said:

 

If you're going to try WiFi, DO NOT attempt to simply use a WiFi bridge talking to the typical home/residential/consumer WiFi router.  That will almost certainly result in disappointment.  Instead use dedicated 5GHz WiFi point-to-point devices, such as a pair of Ubiquiti NanoStation M5's

 

 

1

 

Edited January 27, 2019 by ak357

[Cortian 9]

Not certain what you're on about, ak357, but I suspect it isn't particularly helpful wrt the OP's question, so how about we drop it, ok?

[jreid1492 0]

8 hours ago, Cortian said:

That is not necessarily critical.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to tell you how to build a watch so you'll understand what I'm telling you when I tell you the time

Residential power in the U.S. is nearly invariably what's called "split phase."  240VAC (nominal) single-phase power from a center-tapped transformer arrives at your distribution (aka: "breaker") panel.  One side of that goes to one side of the panel, the other to the other side.  The breaker boxes are designed such that every other breaker on each side is on the same side of the split phase.  Let's call them "L1" and "L2".  (Because that's how they're actually labelled ;).)

Between L1 or L2 and neutral is 120VAC.  Between L1 and L2 is 240VAC.  120VAC breakers connect only to L1 or L2, and neutral is used for the "return."  240VAC breakers connect to both L1 and L2.  (Either one could be said to be the supply or return. Supply/return really doesn't apply to L1/L2.)

Where powerline Ethernet adaptors (and a lot of powerline home automation gear, such as X10) run into trouble is when one node is on L1/neutral and the other is on L2/neutral.  The signals often don't make it across very well.

With that, now, perhaps, you'll understand this: That your garage has or will have it's own breaker panel isn't quite as critical as which side of the split phase power each adaptor ends-up on.

And, with this and my explanation of how a WiFi bridge might work for you, now perhaps you'll understand why I earlier wrote that either WiFi or powerline will work better, depending upon the particular site.

Thank you that makes it much easier to under stand and I will have to have a look at the breaker in the house to see how it is set up. That is once I get it labeled properly cause the old owner made a mess of things and the labels.

8 hours ago, Cortian said:

jreid1492, I think the approach I'd take would be to order a Comtrend G.hn 1200 Mbps Powerline Ethernet Bridge Adapter 2-Unit Kit PG-9172KIT ($70 on Amazon) and test it.  Preferably by having something on the LAN and something in the garage so you can test the bandwidth and reliability.  If that worked I'd be good to go.

If it didn't work, I'd figure I could probably always find a use somewhere in the house for the powerline adaptors, then I'd move on to try the WiFi bridge solution.  That's a bit riskier, being as the Nanostations are close to $90/ea.

The PoE switch I chose for my surveillance system, btw, is the NetGear 5-Port Gigabit Ethernet Unmanaged Switch (GS305P).

Yes I think that will be the way I will try first as I can get the adapter locally. If not would be a big deal as yes I could find some where to us them in the house, as it is a larger house and the coverage in the basement isn't the greatest in some areas, then move onto the nanostations. 

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. I would try powerline plug with a 4 way poe switch at garage should have no problems at all. And a good cheap solution 

powerline are cheap and always a good idea to have a set at home. I would buy a set .... plug one into your router and other in your garage.... then switch WiFi off on a laptop and connect it to the powerline in garage and see if connects and allows you to watch something like a YouTube video ... if does your good to go for around $40

 

one thing I would say is don’t use 4k cameras at your garage end .... either lower your res from 4k to 4mp if already have the cameras or buy the lorex 4mp for that area ..... h265 will be good for 4x 4mp over powerline. 

 

Netgear are good also they do a 4way poe switch for around $40

[Cortian 9]

7 hours ago, jreid1492 said:

Thank you that makes it much easier to under stand and I will have to have a look at the breaker in the house to see how it is set up. That is once I get it labeled properly cause the old owner made a mess of things and the labels.

Yes I think that will be the way I will try first as I can get the adapter locally. If not would be a big deal as yes I could find some where to us them in the house, as it is a larger house and the coverage in the basement isn't the greatest in some areas, then move onto the nanostations. 

Ok, about the breaker number and phases.  It works like this: Each pair of consecutively-numbered breakers is on the same phase.  The next pair are on the other.  So: Phase L1: 1,2; 5,6; 9,10 ...  Phase L2: 3,4; 7,8; 11,12...  The numbering will be 1,3,5,7,9... on the left side, 2,4,6,8... on the right.  Again: This is so a tandem 240VAC breaker plugged into one side, say at 1 & 3, will net 240VAC.

Reminder: Not all powerline Ethernet adapters are equal.  I'm using Comtrend precisely because theirs, while not necessarily the fastest, have a reputation for reliability.

Btw: If the garage power is being upgraded, that would imply you'll be trenching to run new power.  Why not take that opportunity to just drop some conduit in the same trench for Ethernet and any other low-power cabling you might want?  Put a pair of fish lines in it as you assemble it so you can easily pull your low-voltage cables later.  Low-power and electrical can be in the same trench, just not in the same conduit.

[jreid1492 0]

8 hours ago, tomcctv said:

Hi. I would try powerline plug with a 4 way poe switch at garage should have no problems at all. And a good cheap solution 

powerline are cheap and always a good idea to have a set at home. I would buy a set .... plug one into your router and other in your garage.... then switch WiFi off on a laptop and connect it to the powerline in garage and see if connects and allows you to watch something like a YouTube video ... if does your good to go for around $40

 

one thing I would say is don’t use 4k cameras at your garage end .... either lower your res from 4k to 4mp if already have the cameras or buy the lorex 4mp for that area ..... h265 will be good for 4x 4mp over powerline. 

 

Netgear are good also they do a 4way poe switch for around $40

yes that is my plan now. we will see if it will work. I don't have the cameras but that kit comes with all 4k cameras and my plan was to turn the resolution down as where they are located it doesn't need to be 4k

 

6 hours ago, Cortian said:

Ok, about the breaker number and phases.  It works like this: Each pair of consecutively-numbered breakers is on the same phase.  The next pair are on the other.  So: Phase L1: 1,2; 5,6; 9,10 ...  Phase L2: 3,4; 7,8; 11,12...  The numbering will be 1,3,5,7,9... on the left side, 2,4,6,8... on the right.  Again: This is so a tandem 240VAC breaker plugged into one side, say at 1 & 3, will net 240VAC.

Reminder: Not all powerline Ethernet adapters are equal.  I'm using Comtrend precisely because theirs, while not necessarily the fastest, have a reputation for reliability.

Btw: If the garage power is being upgraded, that would imply you'll be trenching to run new power.  Why not take that opportunity to just drop some conduit in the same trench for Ethernet and any other low-power cabling you might want?  Put a pair of fish lines in it as you assemble it so you can easily pull your low-voltage cables later.  Low-power and electrical can be in the same trench, just not in the same conduit.

With upgrading the garage power the wire has already been trenched over as the old owner use to have a hot tub right beside the garage. he took the hot tub but left all the wiring. my plan was just to use that wiring to run into the panel on the garage and upgraded the panel in the garage to run 240v then re hook the old hottub wiring up in the house onto a 240 circuit. so there will be no trenching. if there was going to be trenching I would just wait till then to install lines anyways, but like I said at this point in time there shouldn't be any trenching that will happen.