Best low light vision IP camera, budget 200USD?

[alpalp 0]

Hello!

I am searching for a IP camera that i will use with a NVR.

 

Do you guys know any trustworthy reviews?
 

Requirments:

-Very good low light vision.
-Wired PoE
Budget about 200 USD

 

It seems like Dahua Starlight (2MP not 4MP+) is the best choice for my budget?

Hikvision Darkfighter is also a advice i got!?

I have read ubiquiti is out of date, i dont know if any of this are true because i have not seen any reviews that has tested both of this cameras.

Thank you for your tips!
Take care of each other.

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. 5 threads and over 35 posts all asking the same thing 

 

did you read up on the TVT recommendation 

i would look at everything 5mp with your budget 

I would stay away from hikvision with all its data breaches 

starlight is a good choice 

[alpalp 0]

10 minutes ago, tomcctv said:

Hi. 5 threads and over 35 posts all asking the same thing 

 

did you read up on the TVT recommendation 

i would look at everything 5mp with your budget 

I would stay away from hikvision with all its data breaches 

starlight is a good choice 

Are you the only person in this forum Why so little activity here?

5 threads? You mean other people asking the same thing? I will try to search, thank you!

They told me 2MP is better than 5MP on the starlight, do you think that could be true?

Thank you

[Cortian 9]

43 minutes ago, alpalp said:

Are you the only person in this forum Why so little activity here?

5 threads? You mean other people asking the same thing? I will try to search, thank you!

They told me 2MP is better than 5MP on the starlight, do you think that could be true?

Thank you

@tomcctv isn't the only member here, but he's one of the most active.  He's probably also one of the most knowledgeable.

As to why there's relatively low activity, here?  I do not know.  Stick around.  Learn.  Eventually contribute.  Then there'll be more activity here   Speaking of which...

I don't know about five threads, but you've started at least four on the same subjects.  Please pick one thread and stick with it?  (Except the one that got locked.  Let this be a lesson in on-line forum: Don't get into battles with trolls.)

For low light applications 2MP is "better" than 3, 4, 5MP or more because less pixels == larger pixels == better light gathering/sensitivity.  If you examine, for example, two Dahua Starlight cams that are otherwise identical, except one (the one I previously recommended to you) is 2MP and the other 4MP, you'll find the 2MP has much better low light sensitivity.

The other reason bigger pixels are better than smaller ones in low light is a property known as SNR: Signal-to-Noise Ratio.  For a given level of light, in a low-light environment: Bigger pixels will have a higher SNR than smaller ones.  This explains why a 2MP Starlight camera can appear to the the same, or better, resolution than a 4MP camera in low light: Because the 2MP image has less noise.  Noise destroys definition.

If you know you're always going to have plenty of light, then, by all means: More pixels is nearly always better.  But in light-deprived settings: Not so much.

[larry 2]

1 hour ago, alpalp said:

Are you the only person in this forum Why so little activity here?
 

One of the reasons for the inactivity is that we recently switched the forums' software from Phpbb (used for 15 years) to IPS which has negatively affected the sites' Google indexing. I am hoping this is just temporary and will eventually pick back up. I feel making the jump to new software will be beneficial in the long run.  Another reason is that I personally neglected this site and failed to implement SSL (https) early; which also killed the Google indexing. 

That's all in the past now and things will start to pick up around here soon.

[Cortian 9]

If you'd like to create a small badge (88x31px is a common size) and the appropriate embed HTML to go with it, I'd be happy to paste it on the front pages of my two sites.  They're not exceedingly high-traffic, but every bit counts

[alpalp 0]

36 minutes ago, Cortian said:

@tomcctv isn't the only member here, but he's one of the most active.  He's probably also one of the most knowledgeable.

As to why there's relatively low activity, here?  I do not know.  Stick around.  Learn.  Eventually contribute.  Then there'll be more activity here   Speaking of which...

I don't know about five threads, but you've started at least four on the same subjects.  Please pick one thread and stick with it?  (Except the one that got locked.  Let this be a lesson in on-line forum: Don't get into battles with trolls.)

For low light applications 2MP is "better" than 3, 4, 5MP or more because less pixels == larger pixels == better light gathering/sensitivity.  If you examine, for example, two Dahua Starlight cams that are otherwise identical, except one (the one I previously recommended to you) is 2MP and the other 4MP, you'll find the 2MP has much better low light sensitivity.

The other reason bigger pixels are better than smaller ones in low light is a property known as SNR: Signal-to-Noise Ratio.  For a given level of light, in a low-light environment: Bigger pixels will have a higher SNR than smaller ones.  This explains why a 2MP Starlight camera can appear to the the same, or better, resolution than a 4MP camera in low light: Because the 2MP image has less noise.  Noise destroys definition.

If you know you're always going to have plenty of light, then, by all means: More pixels is nearly always better.  But in light-deprived settings: Not so much.

So it is a Dahua for me then. Great! Thank you Cortian!

I remember you recommended Dahua IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 2MP, what other models is good you think? I know they have so much in there product list. I am checking right now for something that has optical zoom.
All models: https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/14251?us

I wonder when some IP camera or NVR will be released with googles AI API, so you can just type "red car" and it will directly show you when the red car was outside your home. That would really be a big game changer! Example: Cloud Video Intelligence API Demo - YouTube

 

12 minutes ago, larry said:

One of the reasons for the inactivity is that we recently switched the forums' software from Phpbb (used for 15 years) to IPS which has negatively affected the sites' Google indexing. I am hoping this is just temporary and will eventually pick back up. I feel making the jump to new software will be beneficial in the long run.  Another reason is that I personally neglected this site and failed to implement SSL (https) early; which also killed the Google indexing. 

That's all in the past now and things will start to pick up around here soon.

Yes! I really hope so, because this forum seems much more serious than the other one i visited that belongs to the stupid guy.
I think some of the reasons could be this stupid guy that has the other forum, seems like he is ready to do everything to get visitors.
Does he use different IP's every time he register here? I remember back in the days when i was in the same position (2004-2005). I told the guy to stop or I would delete him from the internetz, he didnt listen. So it ended up with him comming to my home and begging me to stop from DDOS.

Thank you very much and sorry for starting 3 threads (1 got hi-jacked).
I am so used to be on bigger forums where it is better to start a new thread for every "question".

Sorry again and thank you all.

[larry 2]

2 minutes ago, alpalp said:

Does he use different IP's every time he register here? 

 

I think he also owns a hosting company so he has access to multiple IP addresses. 

To be honest, I don't care whether he participates on this site or not as long as he is in full control of himself and he understands his opinions are not gospel - at least not gospel on this site.

[Cortian 9]

7 minutes ago, alpalp said:

So it is a Dahua for me then. Great! Thank you Cortian!

I remember you recommended Dahua IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 2MP, what other models is good you think?

You're welcome.

I'm new, very new, to this, myself.  So I cannot in good conscious recommend anything, per se.  All I can do is share the decisions I've made, so far, based on my own research.  To that end: If you're looking for an outdoor, low-light PoE IP cam: The one camera is my only suggestion.

I'm sure they have other 2MP Starlight cameras in other form-factors.  I would only suggest you probably want to avoid domes for outside use, as they get dirty and the plastic gets degraded by UV, both of which lead to fogging the image.

[alpalp 0]

6 minutes ago, larry said:

I think he also owns a hosting company so he has access to multiple IP addresses. 

To be honest, I don't care whether he participates on this site or not as long as he is in full control of himself and he understands his opinions are not gospel - at least not gospel on this site.

My English is not the best but, you are right, this type of people need help. 

 

2 minutes ago, Cortian said:

You're welcome.

I'm new, very new, to this, myself.  So I cannot in good conscious recommend anything, per se.  All I can do is share the decisions I've made, so far, based on my own research.  To that end: If you're looking for an outdoor, low-light PoE IP cam: The one camera is my only suggestion.

I'm sure they have other 2MP Starlight cameras in other form-factors.  I would only suggest you probably want to avoid domes for outside use, as they get dirty and the plastic gets degraded by UV, both of which lead to fogging the image.

Oh! Thank you my friend, I am also very very new. But this seems like a good choice because many people arround the internetz has giving me the similar advice.

I will look at there homepage and let you know what i found!

May i ask what country you live in?

Best regards.
 

[Cortian 9]

You're welcome.  I'm in the U.S.

[alpalp 0]

1 minute ago, Cortian said:

You're welcome.  I'm in the U.S.

Cool! I live in Sweden.

HFW5231E-Z12E seems similar but has 12x optical zoom instead of 5x HDW5231R-ZE.

HDW5231R-ZE https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/14251?us
vs
HFW5231E-Z12E https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/14191

Now another problem is where to buy this

[tomcctv 190]

Why going back in technology....... Dahua camera listed is b/w night mode and 5 year old tech.

 

does not matter if 2-3-4-5 Or 8mp the more MP the better the camera is 

[alpalp 0]

1 minute ago, tomcctv said:

Why going back in technology....... Dahua camera listed is b/w night mode and 5 year old tech.

 

does not matter if 2-3-4-5 Or 8mp the more MP the better the camera is 

"Lower resolution means larger pixel size which means more light captured" What is todays tech then?

[Cortian 9]

11 minutes ago, tomcctv said:

does not matter if 2-3-4-5 Or 8mp the more MP the better the camera is 

Tom, you usually supply good advice, but you're provably wrong on this count, for the reasons I've already detailed.

[tomcctv 190]

7 minutes ago, Cortian said:

Tom, you usually supply good advice, but you're provably wrong on this count, for the reasons I've already detailed.

Ok all manufacturers must be wrong ......why would they ever need to go up in resolution if it does not work so selling 29mp cameras is now pointless

 

2mp is old ....... Hence why we have 5mp and 8mp recording NVRs 

does not matter how you put it high resolution is better 

 

it as grow from CIF - 4cif-D1 -1.3mp and up ...... And always been about data in a pixel ..... More information the better

 

which was the last 5mp camera you installed and 2mp was better day and night ?

 

[Cortian 9]

1 hour ago, tomcctv said:

Ok all manufacturers must be wrong ......why would they ever need to go up in resolution if it does not work so selling 29mp cameras is now pointless

 

2mp is old ....... Hence why we have 5mp and 8mp recording NVRs 

does not matter how you put it high resolution is better 

 

it as grow from CIF - 4cif-D1 -1.3mp and up ...... And always been about data in a pixel ..... More information the better

 

which was the last 5mp camera you installed and 2mp was better day and night ?

 

The manufactures aren't all wrong, it's just that "pixels sell" and bigger isn't always better.

E.g.: When my wife and I were getting set to take a vacation in Europe last year I spent more than a few hours qualifying a good camera that would be the best compromise between being easy to haul around and having acceptable image quality under varying conditions.  No matter how many times I found myself trying to go for more pixels: In test-after-test and comparison-after-comparison the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ300, which had a comparatively "low" pixel count, kept winning.  Why?  In part because of its low-light performance.  Compared to cameras with twice the pixels or more: It captured higher-quality images, with much lower noise, in challenging lighting conditions.  All the pixels in the world don't matter if the image is buried in noise.

Wasn't the most expensive camera in its class, either.  Heck, the macro lens for my Canon body cost twice what that glorified P&S camera did.

So, while "2MP is old": "Old" does not necessarily equate to "worse."  It's been proven, time-and-again, in real world tests and installations, that nothing beats a 2MP Startlight camera in low-light.

That being said: I, personally, have no experience at all in this field.  Something to which I've admitted several times.  My opinions are based upon the reviews, opinions and tests of others.

Some of those others, btw, are experts in their field.  Some of them are relatives of mine that operate a highly-successful surveillance systems company.  They concurred with my findings: That, short of cameras costing 3-5x more, nothing beats the Dahua Starlight cam I chose for outside use in low light.

"Better day and night" was not my assertion.  We're talking solely about low light performance.  (It's in the thread topic.  As is his desired price point.)

[tomcctv 190]

38 minutes ago, Cortian said:

The manufactures aren't all wrong, it's just that "pixels sell" and bigger isn't always better.

Cortian there is no such thing as big or small pixels ..... It is more pixels or less pixels ...... Less pixels is low resolution more pixels means bigger better resolution.  ..... And as its been discussed on this forum for years and other don't make the mistake on comparison with pocket cameras and CCTV 

48 minutes ago, Cortian said:

nothing beats the Dahua Starlight cam I chose for outside use in low light.

So you question if I am right yet it's your mistake .......look at the ops link which you are questioning ME about. First I will point out for you ..... The links like I said are 8 year old tech starvis tech NOT STARLIGHT which as you say and I aggree is 2 years old and completely different technology 

so which do you surgest know to op orders if not already out of the wrong advise given ..... STARVIS OR STARLIGHT I spent over 300k on these cameras I know how they  proform...... And cortian go back about 6 years and read my involvement with dahua 

1 hour ago, Cortian said:

Better day and night" was not my assertion.  We're talking solely about low light performance.  (It's in the thread topic.  As is his desired price point.)

Yes I know what the thread is about ......and since it's about lowlight again starlight is best and new tech as its colour at night ........ And to do that ..... Guess what lowlight has to do ..........and again it's available in 2-3-4-5-8mp and they all proform the same 

[alpalp 0]

But alot of people say 2MP has better view in low light.

I also remember i read someone that had both and tested.

Maybe you are wrong tomcctv?


Thank you!

[tomcctv 190]

4 minutes ago, alpalp said:

But alot of people say 2MP has better view in low light.

I also remember i read someone that had both and tested.

Maybe you are wrong tomcctv?


Thank you!

When you read info off the internet you will find old information .

lets talk about how tech has changed ...... So 2mp cameras are better in lowlight ..... Would it not make sence then to go better and buy 1mp cameras 

answer is no ....... Infact this whole post is full of wrong information ...... Large pixels that don't exist 

DIYer questioning a company owner both Europe and USA ....... And has only used 1 type of camera 

 

but ...... Yes a few years ago (old tech) when camera went from colour to B/W the image was not that good so going down a resolution did help 

but that is a thing of the past so (new tech) hikvision darkfighter lowlight range or the dahua starlight range does away with these old problems 

starlight is now used by many manufactures  and works better than on a dahua 

which is why I said at beginning of post why go backwards.

 

you came onto a forum asking for info which is a good thing ...... The forum has helped lots of people from wasting money with not knowing what to buy 

the forum is made up of DIYers installers company owners manufacturers and people who only know 1 brand 

 

but you and cortian can only say I am wrong when you both have :-

100s of geovision 

100s of avermedia 

100s of dahua 

 a few avigilon 

tvt

vcl

hikvision but under there old name

once you have that experience then I will take I am wrong 

so imagine what my house is like ...... I have 2mp and 5 and 8mp and I can tell you which cortian can't because he has not used them ........they are excellent at night.

 

but the forum is only advice ........100-200$ on 2mp camera is a waste but it's your money

[Cortian 9]

1 hour ago, tomcctv said:

DIYer questioning a company owner both Europe and USA ...

A "DIYer" with backgrounds in both hardware and software design and who was once a Senior Software Designer in the vision inspection systems industry.

Oops?

As to your "there is no such thing as big or small pixels" assertion: If that were true, then for every doubling of pixel count they'd have to double the image sensor size.  That would, in turn, require increasing the size of lenses to make up for the light loss otherwise incurred in spreading the same light over double the sensor space.  The sheer cost increase in fabricating them (the bigger the lens the harder to fabricate w/o various distortion artefacts) would make high-megapixel cameras prohibitively expensive.  Obviously the lens on an 8MP camera isn't four times the size of that on a 2MP camera.  (In fact I expect they're using the exact same glass on both.)

In any event, your assertion is provably false, as evidenced by Sony's STARVIS CMOS sensor specs: CMOS Image Sensor for Security & Surveillance.

The Dahua Starlight camera I recommended uses a Sony STARVIS CMOS sensor, which I'm led to understand is regarded as the best low-light sensor in the industry.  So, unless Dahua's degrading the performance of those fine sensors in their software or with inferior glass, Dahua cameras should perform as well as anybody else's using the same sensor.

[51cent 8]

To add to this, that 12x Dahua zoom mentioned is really a varifocal camera. It is used during setup of the camera. The zoom is usually painfully slow.

And bullet cameras attract spiders that spin a web right in front of the camera, setting off the motion detection. I am out probably three nights a week clearing webs from 2 bullet cameras. My 2 dome cameras have no problems with spiders. I keep them under a soffit and rarely have to clean water spots off, only after a very windy rain blows through. Eyeball or turret cameras are supposed to not have those problems.

 

[tomcctv 190]

8 hours ago, Cortian said:

then for every doubling of pixel count they'd have to double the image sensor size.  That would, in turn, require increasing the size of lenses

Wow ... what did you say you used to do and I did say don’t compare photo cameras  

 

but your not doubling the pixel size.... your adding more pixels into the same area ....... pixels we need to temp call them information for you to understand 

and don’t you call pixels big or small let’s say more and less  to keep it simple   

 

Less pixels are bigger to cover say like CIF

more pixels same area  .... D1 more will make 960h more will make 1080 

pixels are information the more there is the better .... more image detail including light  no need for larger sensors just more info For the cctv market

 

 

[tomcctv 190]

9 hours ago, Cortian said:

In any event, your assertion is provably false, as evidenced by Sony's STARVIS CMOS sensor specs: CMOS Image Sensor for Security & Surveillance.

Starvis has been around a long time it is Sony chip and used by everyone .... but the camera still needs filters for going black and white 

starlight which is a complete different sensor and developed by dahua and now licenced out the everyone from November allows camera to stay colour day or night with the way the sensor collects light ....... and again in the cctv industry details is the key black / white images at night has always deen a problem  ..... don’t know colour of cars don’t know colour of cloths and the big problem face white out from IR

[tomcctv 190]

9 hours ago, 51cent said:

To add to this, that 12x Dahua zoom mentioned is really a varifocal camera. It is used during setup of the camera. The zoom is usually painfully slow.

Also a very good valid point ...... a lot of websites call it zoom and people think it’s like a zoom camera 

motorised lens is only used for setting up the camera and nothing else 

 

also it would save the op money if did not have it .... he would  save $40 

also buying sd camera to work on nvr another waste