US Hikvision still? Alternatives? Redoing new house

[Linwood 0]

Starting in 2013+/- I put in hikvision cameras at our home, and generally things went well.  After the first couple I found out about the US vs China variants and managed to get US versions for the rest, though the (not updated) non-US versions worked OK.  I use them with first Zoneminder, later Milestone, and firewall them carefully so am not really worried about back doors, security issues, etc. as they are pretty isolated and all access is from the server not the cameras.

Now it's 2019, and I have not looked at cameras in years, but need to do a new house.  Probably 7-8 cameras, I like turrets as they are subtle, PTZ is not needed, all will be wired.

My first thought was just to get current Hikvision US because of good experience, but Hikvision still seems to be a mess of non-US versions for sale, but now OEM versions as well.  I've been reading for a couple days without any clear insight, it looks a lot like the market 5 years ago.

If I go that way, might as well get the 4K version (I could always downsample if I find that too much for storage, but storage is cheaper all the time.  DS-2CD2383G0-I  apparently? 

Questions: 

Any real downside to going this way?   Anything in similar price range substantially better? 

Is there a better place to buy than Amazon, from people selling "US Version" (not just "English version" or OEM)?

Am I right to avoid OEM, as I am then dependent on them for firmware fixes/updates?   Or are there long term reliable OEM's that make it worthwhile? 

On a distantly related note: I really want brown colored cameras to blend with the house.  Last time I tried various ways to paint them, and while I ended up with brown cameras it was a huge mess, the paint did not stick well, it was hard to reassemble and move.  Are there other brands that are in this quality/price range that offer different colors? 

Thanks in advance for any general advice.

Linwood

[Dan G 0]

I too have been very confused about all the different variations of Hikvision firmware and cameras.  I have stayed away from Hikvision (proper) because of those very issues,  I learned my lesson early on with Chinese software.

I have solved my problems by settling on LTS Security (Hikvision Rebrand) cameras.  US software and firmware.  Very good customer service.  Identified through Hikvision SADP software. Work perfectly with Blue Iris. The downside is that they don't typically sell to end users.  Those that are available on the public market tend to be a bit more expensive.
 

A possible alternative would be IPCam Talk Cameras.  Essentially the same Hikvision clones but less expensive and fewer available.  Available on Amazon and through their web site.

 

 

[Linwood 0]

I never really understand those who won't sell to the DIY market as protection for contractors.  It's one thing to sell to contractors at a discount, but by not selling to me, it is not like I'm going to relent and call up one of their contractors.

IP Cam Talk: Is that the same as the forum website?  I tried years ago to get an account there, they wouldn't accept my email, would not respond to "why" questions.  Personal email hosted on Office 365 with personally owned domain, zero blacklists, zero issues any other forum.  So apparently I would not be able to communicate with them if I bought their product, and since they were not polite enough to tell me why, I will just look past them.  

So B&H (who I like and use frequently) is listed on Hikvision as an authorized seller.  If I buy from them, won't I get warranty support from Hikvision (though B&H probably, but they are very responsive).  I'm just paying about 35% more than the OEM rebranded versions I see on Amazon.  Annoying, but maybe worth it?

 

 

[larry 2]

Old list (not too old though) - These companies OEM Dahua or Hik or both.

https://ipvm.com/reports/hik-oems-dir

https://ipvm.com/reports/dahua-oem

 

 

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. LTS will sell to anyone ..... There worldwide they sell on eBay Amazon 

offices all over the world ...... We won't guess who owns them ....let's call it a franchise company

 

[Linwood 0]

Other than potential savings in purchase cost, is there an advantage to buying OEM?   Is there an advantage to NOT buying OEM?   Are they really the same hardware?  Firmware? 

 

[larry 2]

In most cases, you have no choice but to get an OEM version. For example, Hikvision and Dahua will not sell to you directly. You may find a grey market version but you may suffer from buying it.

The OEM firmware might be slightly different just to try to make the camera seem unique for the distributor (they probably had to pay for the differences) but, for the most part, it's the same camera.

Also, they Hik and Dahua aren't the only players. Move up in price point and you have Geovision, Axis, Sony, Panasonic and a host of other companies.

[Linwood 0]

9 minutes ago, larry said:

In most cases, you have no choice but to get an OEM version. For example, Hikvision and Dahua will not sell to you directly. You may find a grey market version but you may suffer from buying it.

If I buy from an authorized reseller isn't a non-OEM version?

Specifically here:  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1446376-REG/hikvision_ds_2cd2343g0_i_2_8mm_4mp_ir_fixed_turret.html   (that's a link to B&H that worked as of this posting but may not survive changes there; just search for Hikvision 4K.

[larry 2]

Yeah,  B&H has clout (money + volume sales) so they are able to sell the Hikvision labeled version but, as you mentioned, I doubt they offer personal support. I wouldn't over think this. Just pick a reseller that has been around 5 years or so and you should be good.

[Linwood 0]

20 hours ago, tomcctv said:

Hi. LTS will sell to anyone ..... There worldwide they sell on eBay Amazon 

offices all over the world ...... We won't guess who owns them ....let's call it a franchise company

 

So I tried tracking this down on Amazon.  Their apparent look-alike for the Hikvision is something they call CMIP3382NW-M,  Retail from B&H the DS-2CD2383G0-I is $218, LTS sells OEM (if it is indeed the same camera) for $299.  The hikvision model is their "value" series at the very bottom end.

Other purported OEM's on amazon at present show a comparison to their DS-2CD2385FWD-I, which is their "performance" series.  At B&H that specific model is $443 but the Amazon "OEM" is at $179.  This is from "Hawk .eillance"  who isn't on their OEM list of course.

It doesn't look easy to sort out legitimate OEM from dodgy.

 

 

[larry 2]

Amazon + "Hikvision" on camera + too cheap + Chinese seller = don't buy

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. Looking at the listings .......one thing that is not right is the price $218 for a 4mp 

these prices are crazy ....... I surgest also looking at other makes 

[Linwood 0]

I ordered one Lorax to try.  As I understand it, those are legitimate rebranded hikvisions authorized for sale in the US.  And they had one in black, which I prefer to the white since all the trim here is dark brown.

At least I can experiment with it, see if I can get updates, etc.

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. Lorex is dahua not hikvision ..... 100% dahua owned 

can I ask how much and the spec

[Linwood 0]

Interesting.  My mistake, too many postings in too short of time, they ran together.

This link is where I bought it (might not work later): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077V275SR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Item LNE8950A, 113 field of view, IP67, IR up to 200ft, 4K @ 15fps, H.265.

 

[tomcctv 190]

19 minutes ago, Linwood said:

Interesting.  My mistake, too many postings in too short of time, they ran together.

This link is where I bought it (might not work later): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077V275SR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Item LNE8950A, 113 field of view, IP67, IR up to 200ft, 4K @ 15fps, H.265.

 

Hi linwood ..... Not a mistake ...just learning and doing your homework.

good camera. colour at night . 

What will you run the camera on ......for testing you will not get the full protential out of it as its a 4K camera with a PC 

 

you our can play with the software its downloadable from dahua website smart PSS 

once it arrives I'll send you a new vms software to try it out on 

 

[Linwood 0]

I had planned to run it on Milestone server on a big-ish PC on a raid set, at only about 2 fps, as I want continuous capture but decent duration.  I figure I can probably get about a week with the current system, but it might be time for a disk space upgrade as the disks in it are getting a bit old.

Storage (for duration) is the main limiting factor that will cause me to reduce bandwidth, so I do not see a (wired only) network issue.

I also pull a still every few minutes and upload to the cloud - need to see how that's going to work at 4K, that might take a bit of tweaking, maybe even will downsize.  The cloud copy is my "someone stole everything including the security system" copy.

I've experimented (in the past not recently) with a lot of NVR software - Blue Iris, Xeoma, Zoneminder (used it, and contributed to it, for a few years), etc.  None of them make me terribly happy, but Milestone has been mostly solid and flexible enough.  A lot of the more sophisticated-seeming ones were incredibly flakey when I tested them.  And I like free.