glaursen 0 Posted June 20, 2019 I just finished installing an additional 6 cameras onto an existing system at my family's storage facility. The cameras and DVR are all by Optiview, and the DVR currently has 9 other cameras all running and displaying on it. The DVR has 16 channels, so the new cameras are just being added to the same DVR. Due to the overall length of the run, all the Siamese cables terminated at the end of the building the cameras were installed on, in order to ensure the power supply was able to supply enough current to the cameras. The coax part of the cables were soldered together with a second cable run that runs underground through conduit to the facility's office. I've installed the other cameras without any issue similar to this, so obviously the problem lies within this specific installation project. As I terminated each cable and plugged it into the DVR, every single camera displayed a very scrambled image, completely unusable. They flicker, zigzag, cut in/out, etc, but they don't produce a single viewable image for even the briefest of instants. My initial thoughts: 1) Soldering didn't prevent the loss of decibels like I was led to believe it would, and has caused too much signal loss. 2) I didn't use the right kind of solder. I've never soldered coax before, but I have done some minor work on circuit boards and automotive wiring before. I used the same solder that I've had for years (I don't do enough solder work to go through a spool very fast at all) that I bought from Radio Shack (back when they were still a thing). 3) The non-Siamese cable isn't the same quality I was led to believe it was, or 4) Everything previously stated is fine, the cable run is just too long and the cameras don't have enough power to push a signal that far. (The longest run is less than 800 feet) Due to legal/liability reasons (we advertise as being under surveillance) I need to get this figured out and resolved ASAP. Hoping someone can point me in the right direction! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 20, 2019 Hi. You could have a few problems ..... 1 is you should never solder coax do you know what camera format you have .... standard analog or HD analog ( cvi tvi ahd) cameras need to match dvr format also another problem could be you have the wrong region cameras .... ntsc or pal if your recorder is ntsc and you buy pal format you will get a similar problem to what you have. Have you tried connecting camera on a test cable next to dvr ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glaursen 0 Posted June 21, 2019 3 hours ago, tomcctv said: Hi. You could have a few problems ..... 1 is you should never solder coax Crap, I was given some bad advice then. I was told that I should solder instead of using any type of connector, as I would lose the most signal strength using any type of connector. I was led to believe that soldering the connection was the best option for minimal signal degradation. If not solder, then what would the best option be to mate two coax cables together with minimal loss of picture quality? 3 hours ago, tomcctv said: do you know what camera format you have .... standard analog or HD analog ( cvi tvi ahd) cameras need to match dvr format The cameras and DVR are HD analog, and are all made by the same company and are designed to work together. The previously installed cameras are all the same make/model and they work without a hitch. 3 hours ago, tomcctv said: also another problem could be you have the wrong region cameras .... ntsc or pal if your recorder is ntsc and you buy pal format you will get a similar problem to what you have. DVR is set to NTSC by default, and the cameras are NTSC as well. With every other camera I've ever installed using this system, it's been literally plug and play. The most I've needed to do is to adjust my motion sensitivity and my sub-stream options. 3 hours ago, tomcctv said: Have you tried connecting camera on a test cable next to dvr ? No, I haven't done that, though I did swap a different camera to one of the other ports and the image came through just fine, so I don't think there's any issue with the DVR. I do have signal coming from each of the cameras, but it seems like there's not enough signal strength for the DVR to properly interpret. Thanks for the input so far, I appreciate any and all help I can get toward getting these new cameras online! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, glaursen said: No, I haven't done that, though I did swap a different camera to one of the other ports and the image came through just fine, so I don't think there's any issue with the DVR. I do have signal coming from each of the cameras, but it seems like there's not enough signal strength for the DVR to properly interpret. Keep testing simple ....... connect a camera that your having a problem with to a test lead next to dvr (short coax) this will eliminate wrong region and format problems. How have you terminated coax at dvr and camera end what size power supply are you using Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adequate 0 Posted June 21, 2019 Check out the following Camera system DVR system Cable length Try to make a 30-50 meters Bnc cable and connect it from the DVR (avoid soldering) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adequate 0 Posted June 21, 2019 Just now, adequate said: Check out the following Camera system DVR system Cable length Try to make a 30-50 meters Bnc cable and connect it from the DVR (avoid soldering) Do you use Power Box or Power Adapter. Try to use a power adapter that's more than 2A Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glaursen 0 Posted June 21, 2019 There is a power box at the location where the cables are joined. All the cables from that point to the cameras are powered off the Siamese cable. Cable length is under 700 feet for the absolute longest run, as I understand, 900-1000 is the limit so all these are well within that range. Cables are terminated as BNC at both ends. The power supply is a distribution box with 9 outputs at 1.1 amps each. This has been a sufficient power supply for all other cameras on site (same power supply model is used for the other cameras) and several of them have a longer home run from the power supply to the camera. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 21, 2019 Hi. 700ft 1.1amp .....that is also a problem did you try connecting a camera local Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glaursen 0 Posted June 21, 2019 I did, and I discovered part of the problem. The cameras are a newer model than the ones previously installed, and are native 4MP/4k resolution, which is higher than the DVR can encode. However, using a newer DVR from an installation elsewhere on the property, I was able to reprogram the cameras to default to 1080p. Now I can get an image on 5 of the cameras, at least enough of one to be able to decipher what is being recorded, but the signal is still very poor, it glitches, has ghosting, cuts completely in/out on at least 2 of them, and has lines of every imaginable kind running through the images. So progress... kinda. I'm starting to suspect that maybe my cable length and soldering might be playing a role in the image quality issue (although if someone has a better idea as to the problem, I'll gladly take any advice given). What would be the best option to mate the two different coax runs together that would result in minimal image degradation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 21, 2019 More like a power problem 1.1 amp at 700ft also what HD format are your cameras ..... this can also restrict you on cable length Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glaursen 0 Posted June 21, 2019 700 ft. is an overestimation, most of the runs are around the 450-600 foot range. Only 1 camera has even close to that long of a run, but I don't recall my exact numbers anymore so I just rounded up to a higher number than any of my runs. The cameras are formated for 1080p, at a resolution of 1920x1080. However the signal to the newer DVR before I adjusted the settings was displaying 4MP at a resolution of 2560x1440, and signal quality was the same as it was at 1080. Even going down to the lowest possible resolution did nothing to improve the signal quality. What would my options be to improve my signal quality? Is there something I can install right where my two cables meet instead of having the ends soldered? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glaursen 0 Posted June 27, 2019 Any input on what I can do to resolve this would be greatly appreciated. I have a problem tenant in one of the units on this building, and right now the footage that is being recorded would be absolutely inadmissible should footage ever be needed for legal purposes. Right now this unit has a warrant pending for potential stolen property being stored, and the sister of the tenant's girlfriend is looking to pursue a lawsuit for the theft of her brother's belongings. Either scenario is going to more than likely request camera footage, and the Technicolor spastic mind trip that is currently being displayed by all cameras means that our surveillance system is just for show and not for function on this building. I understand that there has been a lot of discussion as to what is wrong about the existing setup, but what I really need is to find a solution that will hopefully resolve this in as short a timeframe as possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 27, 2019 We still need to know the camera format ... CVI TVI AHD ? 450 / 600ft 1 amp will still give you problems Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glaursen 0 Posted June 28, 2019 Cameras are all HD-CVI I spoke with their tech support and they said that their cameras and cables are rated to run up to 1200 feet using their native power supplies, and that they have had multiple installations that he's confirmed work with longer runs and the same power supply/camera combinations. He also confirmed that I was given bad advice about the splice/solder option and said I should try cutting out the spliced section and going with compression RG6 cable connectors. That's what I apparently get for listening to a sales guy. Regarding the power supply, I don't really know what else can be done there. I would assume that since it's made by the same company that the cameras are probably only designed to receive that much power and that increasing the amperage could run the risk of causing a problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 28, 2019 Well you listen to your sales rep he can work his magic .... because you need a magician 1amp over that distance also what is your voltage drop also you did not mention you used RG6 which is not used for cctv we we can only give advice on experience and we have sold and installed 100s of locations with cvi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glaursen 0 Posted July 1, 2019 I used RG59 cable for the installation, not RG6. What I meant was just coaxial ends on each side of the splice with a barrel connector in the middle. Apologies for any confusion, it was a busy day and I was trying to type that out as quickly as I could and didn't proof read what I'd written. This is the exact cable used in the installation between the power supply/splice and all cameras:https://optiviewusa.com/product/cab1000b/ The cables from the splice to the office are the same spec, just non-Siamese. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glaursen 0 Posted July 1, 2019 Supposing my splice doesn't work, would something like one of these be a reasonable alternative? Terminate at BNC then run the necessary Ethernet cabling to the source, terminate into Baluns which connect directly into the DVR? One of them says it can transmit up to 330m, which would be more than adequate if one of these would be a plausible solution: https://tinyurl.com/y45bhwqqhttps://tinyurl.com/yyprsv9x I've never used the above product, although I have used something similar in an AV setup to convert VGA to Ethernet for longer runs. I don't know if this will work on my current installation given the current distance, etc; I'm just trying to come up with a backup plan in case splicing barrel connectors won't work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, glaursen said: it can transmit up to 330m, Hi. Only at 720p its not not a good idea to mix cable at those lengths best just using the right equipment to install right https://www.amazon.com/WildHD-Connector-Coupler-Security-connector/dp/B0747Q196R/ref=mp_s_a_1_10_sspa?keywords=male+to+male+bnc+coupler&qid=1562015938&s=gateway&sprefix=male+to+male+bnc&sr=8-10-spons&psc=1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glaursen 0 Posted August 12, 2019 Figured I should update this for posterity. I cut all my soldered connections and just used BNC's with barrel connectors. Worked like a charm, all images are up and displaying in full resolution. The sales person who told me that I was going to experience more signal degradation with barrel connectors and that the best way to make the connection was to solder them needs to have his head examined, to be sure. Thanks for the input offered here, it was all appreciated! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tube tech 1 Posted August 15, 2019 about that "you should never solder coax" research "install PL-259 connector." anyone doing high power RF solders the connector. you did get bad advice, but it's not what you think it was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
