Home system installed and need advice.

[ChuckP 0]

Hey guys I wish I found this forum BEFORE I went out and bought all my hardware but this is a rundown of what I have:

 

Computer running AverMedia MP5016 DVR (Only 4 cameras on it right now)

4x Pelco weather housings.

4x Sony SSC-M383 ExwaveHAD cameras

4x Tamron 13VG2812AS-SQ 1/3" 2.8-12mm F/1.4 DC Iris (I think this is where I went wrong)

 

After I got the system all setup I was a little disappointed in the quality of images that I am getting here is a link to a screen shot.

http://deerwoodleasing.com/dvr/cameras.jpg

 

Camera 4 hasnt been configured correctly yet so its washed out. This is my first time so Im not sure how all the settings on the back of the camera work to my advantage. Any tips would be much appreciated, and any info on my lenses or what type are recommended for the cameras I have.

 

Also does anyone have the AverMedia system? I cant seem to find any updates and Im hoping there are because it seems the remote log viewing system doesnt work very well.

 

****Edit****

here is a picture at night time with normal lighting on (turns off late at night) I was thinking of getting an IR illuminator. Also it appears that camera 2 is the only one with the correct settings, I think I have the wrong lense mode selected (Video/DC)

http://deerwoodleasing.com/dvr/night.jpg

[rory 0]

Hey guys I wish I found this forum BEFORE I went out and bought all my hardware but this is a rundown of what I have:

 

Computer running AverMedia MP5016 DVR (Only 4 cameras on it right now)

4x Pelco weather housings.

4x Sony SSC-M383 ExwaveHAD cameras

4x Tamron 13VG2812AS-SQ 1/3" 2.8-12mm F/1.4 DC Iris (I think this is where I went wrong)

 

After I got the system all setup I was a little disappointed in the quality of images that I am getting here is a link to a screen shot.

http://deerwoodleasing.com/dvr/cameras.jpg

 

Camera 4 hasnt been configured correctly yet so its washed out. This is my first time so Im not sure how all the settings on the back of the camera work to my advantage. Any tips would be much appreciated, and any info on my lenses or what type are recommended for the cameras I have.

 

Also does anyone have the AverMedia system? I cant seem to find any updates and Im hoping there are because it seems the remote log viewing system doesnt work very well.

 

****Edit****

here is a picture at night time with normal lighting on (turns off late at night) I was thinking of getting an IR illuminator. Also it appears that camera 2 is the only one with the correct settings, I think I have the wrong lense mode selected (Video/DC)

http://deerwoodleasing.com/dvr/night.jpg

 

Hi. Ok, you have some good cameras and housings and lenses. AS for the System i dont know it and its PC based, may not be the best, our australian friend or Alan may be able to assist you on that. Have you tried to set up each camera on a cctv monitor or small TV yet, for focus of lenses, settings etc? Best to get one working perfect first then set up the rest like that. Looks like 2 cameras are too far from the hosuing glass, need to move them forward more. Also make sure focus is good, and make sure housing glass isnt dirty from rain etc.

 

Here are some pictures captured remotely over the internet (less quality from original) from one of my installs using Kalatel DVRs, Cameras, and some provideo BW bullet cameras. View the images at this thread:

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22

Edited December 19, 2003 by Guest

[ChuckP 0]

Those are actually the sun shades as those two cameras get a lot of sun prior to sundown. I dont have any CCTV monitors, will a normal TV work with a BNC connector on one side to the camera and a TV connector to the TV? right now Ive used a cell phone to talk with someone else looking at the monitor, very difficult, if I did this as a profession I think I would buy one of those handheld monitors

[AVCONSULTING 0]

One of your biggest problems is focusing properly, especially at night. You really need to focus the cameras during the evening or failing that you will need to get some neutral density filters from a camera store and hold them in front of the camera to fool it into thinking it is night time. The cameras you purchased and the lenses are good quality so it is primarily a setup problem. A standard TV will work as a monitor if you use the video inputs, not the antenna input. You'll need an adapter you can get from Radio Shack that converts a BNC to RCA. All of your cameras should have the electronic iris turned off and have the video/dc switch set to the dc side.

You may also have to set the video level on the cameras. I'd strongly suggest getting an experienced CCTV technician to do all of this for you or you will probably end up spending a lot of your own time doing it and in the end waste so much of your time that it would be worth paying someone. Plus they can also help you get the most out of your DVR.

[rory 0]

Those are actually the sun shades as those two cameras get a lot of sun prior to sundown. I dont have any CCTV monitors, will a normal TV work with a BNC connector on one side to the camera and a TV connector to the TV? right now Ive used a cell phone to talk with someone else looking at the monitor, very difficult, if I did this as a profession I think I would buy one of those handheld monitors

 

If your TV has RCA inputs all you need is a BNC - RCA Adaptor. I have a hand held and to be honest they are too small to get the best quality picture. I used a 9inch BW monitor for a while but it 'disappeared' on a job. Now i am using a cheap 13" Color TV for now until I can get my hands on a nother 9" CCTV monitor. CCTV monitors have higher resolution than a tv, but a TV can helo you focus a better crisper image than a small hand held.

 

You should be able to move the sun shades back a little more, had the same issue myself with some Ganz Housings I was sold for a local bank here, had to move them back more, they came default but were too far forward for a wide angle lens (4mm in my case, not really that wide but wider than the manufacturer set them up for).

 

Thats probably your problem with clarity, having someone else focus it for you via a phone or radio, never works great. Yes, use a regular TV, but dont drop it! ) The one i use cost me $99 probably $40 -50 for you in the US, and has RCA inputs and handles to hold it and its light. A color CCTV monitor or BW will cost much more but give you better clarity. My next job I get im buying a CCTV monitor, but for now, the small TV works great.

 

Edited:

 

Like alan said, focus it in either dim lighting or early evening, make sure to use the back focus also for best quality. Use something to focus on in the area that you want the camera to see (eg:50ft away), i use something in the picture such as leaves that can be defined or a vehicle's edges. There are video meters out there now that id like to get my hands on, which claim to help with focus. In cameras 1 & 3 id use the vehicle to focus on, or the 'raindeer' in camera 1 ( ). In cameras 2 & 4 id park the vehicle there or use a tree or plant to focus in on, OR, have another person go within view.

 

Camera 1, 3 & 4 seem to be out of focus, id go out there tonight with a TV and adjust until you get a crisp picture, then the daytime should be fine also. Camera 2 doesnt seem to bad, not sure as it may just be the DVR card. Brightness levels seem ok. If you want post the type of camera and i may be able to send you exact instructions on its settings using a manual I can download (hopefully).

 

Rory

Edited December 19, 2003 by Guest

[rory 0]

Ok no they have no images on Sony Site with settings for this camera.

 

If you can send a manual or photo of the settings panel post here or email me.

 

Also, one thing with sunshades, I found they rarely ever work, at least here in the Bahamas.

 

Also, nice house, nice garden lighting )

[ChuckP 0]

Thanx guys for the quick responses, here is a copy of the manual:

http://www.visualsecurity.com/downloads/pdfs/sony/sscm183_383.pdf

 

my configuration is as followed:

(DC/Video): DC

(LL/INT): INT

(OFF/AGC): AGC

(OFF/BLC): BLC

(OFF/CCD-IRIS): OFF

 

On V-Phase I have it all the way to + (I didn't notice any difference in changing it). On Level I have it all the way to + then back about a 1/4 turn (This would bleach the image all the way + and make it pitch black at -). The power is AC24V from a fused box on power backup.

 

Also rory, thanx for the compliment I figured it was time to put some cameras up, ever since we have had our house egged and firworked to death. The kids who eggs us the last time didnt get away

[rory 0]

Thanx guys for the quick responses, here is a copy of the manual:

http://www.visualsecurity.com/downloads/pdfs/sony/sscm183_383.pdf

 

my configuration is as followed:

(DC/Video): DC

(LL/INT): INT

(OFF/AGC): AGC

(OFF/BLC): BLC

(OFF/CCD-IRIS): OFF

 

On V-Phase I have it all the way to + (I didn't notice any difference in changing it). On Level I have it all the way to + then back about a 1/4 turn (This would bleach the image all the way + and make it pitch black at -). The power is AC24V from a fused box on power backup.

 

Also rory, thanx for the compliment I figured it was time to put some cameras up, ever since we have had our house egged and firworked to death. The kids who eggs us the last time didnt get away

 

Ok thanks, havent looked at the manual yet, but as to your settings:

 

For Outdoors:

 

(DC/Video): DC - GOOD

(LL/INT): INT - GOOD

(OFF/AGC): AGC - OFF - NORMALLY CAUSES THE IMAGE TO BE TOO BRIGHT

(OFF/BLC): BLC - OFF - NORMALLY SET TO OFF UNLESS USING AT AN ENTRY DOOR INDOORS

(OFF/CCD-IRIS): OFF - GOOD - USING AUTO IRIS LENS

 

V- Phase shouldnt make a difference unless you are using line lock, not needed in your case.

 

AI level is up to you depending on the brightness of the image during the day. If it is too bright in the day lower the level more. If you need to see more in the night, raise it more but you will/may be too bright in the day.

It seems okay to me from the images. Focus it first, then adjust the AI level brightness.

 

For instance I have a night club who is more interested in seeing in low low light at night as they tried to burn the place down a few times. So for those cameras we have the AI turned up high, so at night it is very good, for color cameras. Day time you can still see good, but can be very bright on the ground reflection when the sun is out, but the client wanted this and didnt care much for day as he has workers their during the day every day. End result is nightimt, the florecsent lights can be too bright, but the other parts of the images see everything, and as its a a low light color camera, can see in almost no light. So like i said, its up to you, light level seems fine to me from the images. You definately wouldnt darken it anymore, if anything you would lighten it, but i wouldnt, unless you want to see more at night, but could mess up your day image, test in night , THEN day if you want to do something like this. Otherwise leave the brightness as is.

 

EDITED:

 

Ok looked and same as i mentioned above.

Also try Backfocus adjustment for crisper image when focusing, It looks like it has one at the top of it. Focus the camera to wide angle, then back focus it to crisper image, then if you want an different focal lenght (eg. if lens is 4mm and you want to see 6mm then now you adjust it to 6mm) focus to required lens focus, then use back focus again to finalize the image. Instructions should show how to do all this, though I dont see it in the manual. You can always just focus it then use back focus to finalise the image.

Edited December 19, 2003 by Guest

[ChuckP 0]

Will do and I will post pictures when Im done so others can see the pic quality from these cameras/DVR system.

[rory 0]

Will do and I will post pictures when Im done so others can see the pic quality from these cameras/DVR system.

 

ok good. I have focused cameras at night and evening. Basically when you get the best picture you will know, as the detail will give off a moving kind of crispness, you may see on MSNBC or CNN with their cameras (theirs are obvioulsy higher res and cost WAY more), but the details of the image such as the edge of a car or leaves will actually be moving, somewhat, to the eye, like high contrast. These Sony's are some of the best cameras, at least they are 'top of the line' so they should give a great image.

 

Note that you are not using the lowest light lenses, they recommend f1.2 for the light level they will go to, you have f1.4, but hey that is close enough! and still very good low light lenses.(i use f0.95 lenses on the low light color cameras at the night club I was talking about, so if you want to see more at night then you can always switch to lower F Stop lenses such s f1.2, or maybe even lower like the f0.95 lens from Fujitsu. It may not matter too much with BW, not sure, but it could be worth a try at least to test on 1 camera at a later date, wouldnt mess with it right now. And yes, AGC turned on will make it brighter at night also, but may mess up the day image, i always leave AGC off personally, but we have alot of sunlight here in the Bahamas )

[rory 0]

Will do and I will post pictures when Im done so others can see the pic quality from these cameras/DVR system.

 

and if you ever want to switch to an embedded DVR system that doesnt use your PC, more stable, no maintanance etc, id suggest the GE interlogix Kalatel StoreSafe, 4 Channel, Hard Drive size will depend on how long you want to record for, built in HDs can give you 7-56 days (40Gb-160Gb) approx ( i have an 8 channel at 5pps 320gb 24 hour gas station doing 28 days, single channel DVR,so you an get double with an all in one as its all built together so you can go half the speed toget the same recording results, 2.5pps), and they have add on Digital Storage that can record for years and years. The 40Gb starts at $1495 Wholesale, so its not as cheap as the PC card, but definately worth it. Prices will drop so hopefully they will get cheaper in time They also have built in CD-RW, LAN (remote video, which you can make your own custom software for if you wanted, though comes with free software), and many many features. Anyway, there are others also but this is the 'brand' that I use and support and have had nothing but great experience with.

 

Ok, yes im done promoting kalatel for now )) back to watching TV. And no i get no compansation from them!

[rory 0]

Will do and I will post pictures when Im done so others can see the pic quality from these cameras/DVR system.

 

WORK on one camera first, then when you get the settings great, then do the rest.

[ChuckP 0]

Oky I setup a TV and connected it to the cameras. After I adjusted the cameras they looked great on the TV, however when they are connected to the DVR system they are grainy and slightly out of focus... Is this something I should expect from a digital DVR system? AverMedia was by no means cheap but it wasnt one of the high end systems either. Do you think I would have bettter luck with a different unit?

 

Here is a shot:

http://deerwoodleasing.com/dvr/configured.jpg

[AVCONSULTING 0]

Go into your setup on the DVR and make sure you are in the 640x480 mode and at the highest resolution setting. It will eat up more hard drive space but will give you the best quality picture. It is a common misconception that you get better quality pictures on a DVR than you do direct viewing on a monitor. Unfortunately due to the compression of the video signal necessary to record large amounts of information onto a hard drive you will lose quality of picture and this is what you are seeing. It is still far superior than recording to a time lapse using a multiplexer. Looks like the 4 th camera could use more illumination.

[ChuckP 0]

Well I did expect some loss but on the monitor it looks brilliant.. I think one of the problems is I have the system running on a 1ghz 256mb RAM machine and it appears that most people use around 2ghz. Do you think that could change the quality? I have the cameras set to 640x480 now and 5fps recording per camera. The only question I have left is it has the option of recording JPEG or MPEG-4, whats recomended?

[rory 0]

Oky I setup a TV and connected it to the cameras. After I adjusted the cameras they looked great on the TV, however when they are connected to the DVR system they are grainy and slightly out of focus... Is this something I should expect from a digital DVR system? AverMedia was by no means cheap but it wasnt one of the high end systems either. Do you think I would have bettter luck with a different unit?

 

Here is a shot:

http://deerwoodleasing.com/dvr/configured.jpg

 

I had the same problem with 2 different PCI cards that I went to deal with. I wasnt there for the DVR part, just the cameras. In the highest settings they stil had pretty bad quality, especially compared to other DVRs I have viewed and used. GeoVision seems to be good also. There may be the compression thing, I think Mpeg is better, but Alan will be able to help you more on that issue.

 

Just curious, how much did you pay, just want a comparison to a stand alone, and did you buy it retail or from a distributor?

[ChuckP 0]

The card was a MP5016 Avermedia with 120fps recording (however I found out later 5fps max per camera) which does not make a whole lot of sense. Im looking forward to some sort of software update that may fix this. The price I paid was $850 from an online retailer.

[rory 0]

The card was a MP5016 Avermedia with 120fps recording (however I found out later 5fps max per camera) which does not make a whole lot of sense. Im looking forward to some sort of software update that may fix this. The price I paid was $850 from an online retailer.

 

YEah, normally the total fps divides up among any cameras connected. We buy the stand alone DVRs like a 4 channel for around $1400 wholesale. Different types of compression and all.

[AVCONSULTING 0]

5 FPS is normal on a card like that, in fact on almost all DVRs since each processing chip (there are 4 in your system) has a maximum of 20 FPS when more than 1 camera is hooked up. It is a little confusing, it is not advertised but a 30 FPS processing chip slows down to 20 FPS as soon as two or more cameras are run. So 20 FPS per chip x 4 chips gives 80 FPS total or 5 FPS per camera. Some card vendors will put this information in their specifications but most do not since it doesn't make for good marketing. Sneaky marketing is a better word for it.

[ChuckP 0]

The cameras during the day look real good though; they look pretty much in focus and not far from what they look like on a monitor.

 

http://www.deerwoodleasing.com/dvr/daylight.jpg

 

Do you think having a infrared spotlight would help during the nighttime?

[AVCONSULTING 0]

IR is very expensive. You would be much better off putting in conventional lighting unless there is some specific reason not to have it such as local CCR's etc. If you do want IR then check out www.extremecctv.com which has about the best IRs around. The pictures do look better. I would take off the AGC and BLC if you haven't already.

[ChuckP 0]

I took AGC and BLC off after rory made the recommendation. I think my best bet will be going with IR, the UF100 looks affordable and looks like it will work in my application. Due to restrictions in the community setting up spot lights where the cameras are aimed would be too much of a problem.

[rory 0]

I took AGC and BLC off after rory made the recommendation. I think my best bet will be going with IR, the UF100 looks affordable and looks like it will work in my application. Due to restrictions in the community setting up spot lights where the cameras are aimed would be too much of a problem.

 

Hi Chuck

 

Like allan said, IR is very expensive, if doing it right. Ive done a home here with All extreme CCTV IR cameras and some UF500s. So ive been through all the ins and outs of it.

 

I have to go out for a hlaf hour, will take another look at your night images, and see what you will need from Extreme to Cover it. Ill get you the price also, just give me til 5.30-6pm (bahamas time)

[AVCONSULTING 0]

You have b/w cameras right? If they are color you could have a problem with IR. Just wanted to make sure since the images are b/w.

[ChuckP 0]

Yes they are B/W I made sure to get them B/W because I knew I would be using them in low light conditions, they are rated at 0.07 lux at F1.2.