Camera Motion Detection Not ready For Prime Time?

[ForestCat 0]

Hi,

I had been hoping to base a home security system solely upon a pc w/ dvr card and carefully placed cameras w/ finely tuned motion masks, and pager/dialer and email notification. The more I'm reading, though, the more it looks as though that is a path strewn with incessant false alarms. I do, however, welcome the experiences & opinions of those who may have succeeded, as well as failed. I'd like to be wrong about this.

 

Here is the bigger question, though. Can a pc-based system, properly spec'd, built, and tweaked, using a DVR card, (s/w compression) cameras (8-12) and a nice compliment of external sensors, be robust enough to be relied upon as the sole "brains" of a security system? The configurability of such a system really appeals to me. I know a pc can be stable, assuming daily reboots. The app software is the wildcard...

 

Thanks for your input.

[VST_Man 1]

yes a PC/Server can reliably do the above, but, there is one catch. When installing camera's try to place where motion is more sucessful than not. Indoors the motion is a breeze as there is not too much that can trigger a false detection. Outdoors is a completly different problem as wind, tree's, clouds, ect all set off motion. Knowing that I'd be critical of camera placement and motion triggers that dial out. Instead I'd set up hard wired and beam type alarms that interface directly into the PC and when these triggers are set off the PC can then record and dial out. Percentage wise you will have a higher reliability.

 

And no, nothing is 100% yet..............as PC/Server software becomes better/affordable the ability of software to identify an object, person, dog, cat is just around the corner. Until then you need to use some old school with new technology and set up your system for sucess. ie. use a decent outdoor motion detector connected to the Server. Set the motion detector in a place where it is 100% accurate. Align the alarm trigger to the recording and doialer and let it run.

 

But in the end a thief well practiced in the art of stealing will be ready to overcome all. You need to do other things like improve lighting, clear away bushes that block, hide the video storage in a false wall incase the thief gets in............

[ForestCat 0]

Thanks VST_Man,

 

I didn't want to put too much info in the first post, but yes, planning is everything. I'm moving all of my electric/cable/phone service indoors, including the phone interface box. Screw Verizon if they don't like it. Burying the rest, making the point of entry into the basement tough to find without a metal detector. Putting a hasp & padlock on the electric meter box. Hiding interior service behind false wall. Big UPS's on everything. Plan A, B, C, etc. Beams in the yard, the works. I've got a great place to stash the server.

Yes, my thinking is any audible alarm or dialout the police, etc. will be tied to good dual tech motion sensors. However, I will probably want any important video events to fire me off a page & an email jpeg to my phone, so I can judge.

What I was wondering was whether you trust the relay/sensor/dialer capabilities of a good pc based dvr card & software enough to eliminate a dedicated alarm panel w/ multiple zones, keypads, a dialer, etc.

I like the integration/programmability of the pc approach, but I haven't seen anything that gives me the convenience of, say, being able to use a remote control or keypad to arm pre-configured groups of sensors(zones) at bedtime, etc.

Perhaps the real question is whether there are any panels out there that can meaningfully interface with any of the pc solutions, such that the panel could send data about events to the pc, which could page & e-mail, record on specific cams, etc.

Yes, I know I'm asking a lot

[rory 0]

I would not rely on it for the alarm part, use an alarm system for that, that's what they are made for. They are very inexpensive these days. You can still integrate the sensors into the DVR.

 

That said, if you have the $$..

http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interlogix?id=eccp-fc&lang=en_US

[Khandurian 0]

Ya, dont make the same mistake I did. I set one of my work camera's a little "too sensitive". A stand type fan that was set to rotate when the office girls leave, blew a sticky note off the monitor. Needless to say, the video started recording and doing its thing as the little sticky note slowly glided down to the floor.

 

Of course, the phone rang, the pager went buzzing and the nextel went beep beep beep! I quickly run to my computer, log-in remotely while having 91 pushed on the phone. Rewind to activation since nothing was moving in live mode, and low and behold, the sticky note was the culprit!

 

Nothing worse than trying to go back to sleep at 3am!

[VST_Man 1]

dito on the alarm system. I like to seperate all as it is not smart to put everything in one basket. it's ok to overlap where it makes sense but the Video Server should stay just that.

 

I have to say, your kinda sounding like your fighting a war........or preparing for one? Your taking some extreme approaches to ensuring that you can be ready. Will this be a movie one day?

 

But in the same sentance I can say that having reviewed multiple video's of breakin's and assaults I've learned to make my installs more fool proof. The breakin's last less than a couple minutes and the assaults and forced entries are a nightmare. Planning is critical in protecting.

[ForestCat 0]

Thanks for all the fedback. It's nice to know that I'm sort of on the same page with those who actually know what they're doing

The seperate alarm system is not a cost issue, its an integration issue. I'm trying to find a solution that will provide a common remote interface to my surveillance, contact, sensor, and notification subsystems, yet provide the redundancy of a seperate multi-zone panel for the "trusted" h/w sensors.

Rory, the GE looks promising, but before I get my heart set on it, I went googling for price. Couldn't find it. That's scary...

As for expecting a war, well, who knows. I've lived on this street for twenty six years. Twenty six years ago, I had some musical instruments stolen from my basement. Found the stuff that was too heavy to carry far, i.e. Fender Twin Reverb, etc, stashed in the woods for later retreival. Probably an "inside" job, nothing was trashed. But I'll never forget the feeling of opening that door & seeing the most important stuff in my young wanna-be rockstar life GONE. The dust settled, and we had 2 very peaceful decades, windows open, doors unlocked, keys in the ignition. Stupid? I guess. But you 'd have to see the neighborhood to understand. Ozzie & Harriet suburbia.

So three weeks ago, my next door neighbor is broken into, between 3-10PM. Brazen as hell, small casement window in view of the street. Trashed. Jewelry & silverware gone. Some heirlooms, not replaceable. Detective is at my door a few days later, asking questions about hearing gunshots Sunday morning. Telling tales of a troubled teen on the block, who's already been nabbed selling weed out of his single mom's house. Tales of late night traffic & taxis from one of the truly seedy urban jungles 10 miles from here. But the bigger problem is that I now live in a nearly non-securable home that I took ten years to design & build from scratch. I've got 85 freakin' windows and a half dozen glass sliders. Not a big house, maybe 2400sf, but a very cool tree fort kind of place with exposed beams, lofts, etc. Security was just never an issue. I grew up on sixty acres in the pine barrens. Card carrying redneck/country boy. So I built a place behind the last house on a cul-de-sac. 250' driveway, house surrounded on three sides by a 30' ravine & 60+ acres of wetlands/openspace. Will there be a war? Probably not. Will I ever again be able to go to a party/dinner/work whatever without wondering if my place was "next"? Probably not. This is going to be some very expensive peace of mind, probably nothing more, I hope. I've always slept with an 18" mossberg & an HK USP45 within reach. I've also considered the irony of my fiance & myself winding up dead or worse because I didn't know anyone was in the house until the bedroom door got kicked in. "Home invasions" are on the rise in my state, and with the enormous illegal immigration/gang problems reportedly spreading to the suburbs, its probably only a matter of time. This was overdue, and I want to get it right the first time, so I genuinely appreciate all your advice.

 

P.S. No personal problems with weed, just the element it's attracting to my street. Although I gave it up myself in '91 when I got my pilot's license, I think there are worse social problems...

[CSG 0]

It sounds like you need a good burglar alarm system with central station monitoring. Video is good for finding out what happened after the fact.

[rory 0]

Yep Dont worry, i cant live without iron bars on my windows and door .. i got alarm beams and the camera .. so when the beams go off i know what to expect .. video recording is for after the fact, but ive used the camera live video more than a few times to see something i couldnt have without actually coming too close in person .. here we got alot of home invasions, but mostly in the gated communities where the big money is .. but crime wise we got plenty of it around the other areas ...i dont walk out my door without my machete (guns are illegal here besides for pigeon hunting!)

[CollinR 0]

Check out the Elk M1 controls, it would suprise me if they don't integrate some kind of video support in the near future. They have a high capacity for logic and communicates using ASCII serial or TCP/IP so controlling a DVR with one isn't a huge expectation. It also already has a web server so it's just a few geek hours from possible.

 

Prolly ~$2k and you should be able to OEM it if you can edit the web files.

 

 

You can do it now but on a PC or two which will kill the chances of it ever becoming a real alarm. UL will prove tough but the demand is more then there.

 

(I'm a licensed alarm installer too.)

[cctv_down_under 0]

I agree that you should ahev the alarm as seperate, however the DVR is as accurate as the alarm ...after all it si the same closed circuit to activate it.

 

I know the geovision I/O's can be armed by closed circuit and I know this canbe latched or left open for some time, so there is the option to have both the alarm system and the Geo wired to your alarm keypad so that when you arm your alarm you also arm the geovision becuase it will use the same I/O closure and I know that you can make Geo emial and call etc if an input is detected so it should work like this..

 

When you arm your system the circuit closes this is also wired to input #1 on the geo, there is a latch option that alllwos you to do certain functions when that input is closed and that can be to activate hotline alerts or arm certain cameras, when an iput is recieved in Input 2 (the same output to your pizzo for instance) then you can tell the camera to email you from the DVR

 

~ I hope this helps

[CollinR 0]

I agree that you should ahev the alarm as seperate, however the DVR is as accurate as the alarm ...after all it si the same closed circuit to activate it.

 

I know the geovision I/O's can be armed by closed circuit and I know this canbe latched or left open for some time, so there is the option to have both the alarm system and the Geo wired to your alarm keypad so that when you arm your alarm you also arm the geovision becuase it will use the same I/O closure and I know that you can make Geo emial and call etc if an input is detected so it should work like this..

 

When you arm your system the circuit closes this is also wired to input #1 on the geo, there is a latch option that alllwos you to do certain functions when that input is closed and that can be to activate hotline alerts or arm certain cameras, when an iput is recieved in Input 2 (the same output to your pizzo for instance) then you can tell the camera to email you from the DVR

 

~ I hope this helps

 

If you can arm Geo like that, you can map one of it's relay's to every camera or area and have the alarm use use those as contacts just put your EOL across them.

 

 

...

 

 

Of course the first time you get caught in the US, big fine and possibly loose your license forever.

 

These things are not held to the same standards as life saving devices and although they may seem great and highly reliable none that I know of are actually UL listed. This is also why the systems like Honeywell and Tyco are crazy expensive, they have to recoup those development and testing costs. Those systems have junky specs and crazy prices which is why they never get mentioned but they are UL listed for doing this stuff.

[cctv_down_under 0]

How could you loose your licence by wiring a low voltage single wire?