Ok, New camera Mounted.....need opinions please.

[DeathtoToasters1 0]

Per the advice of many members I have purchased the KT&C N600H2.

 

Below are the shots from the N600 camera compared to the original camera at the exact same time. (I tired to match the angles etc.)

 

BTW the camera on the left is the NEW camera.

 

First one is at dusk:

 

 

 

This one at 10:00 PM tonight:

 

 

 

 

So I thin it is pretty obvious that the new camera is better.

 

Some of the issues and questions I have are this.

 

I notice that the new camera seems grainier. Is that because of the better vision at night? I just don't know if it is a result of a brighter black and white picture.

 

Second, it seems that the old camera, on the right, has a better focus range. I want the zoom to be higher on the newer one.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks

DTT

 

EDIT: I don't have any ideas as to what is causing the white shiny dots in the right picture....seems to happen when I capture the pic.

It is not there during live viewing or dvr review.

[rory 0]

Its gotta compensate to see in the low light, hence the darker it is the more pixelisation you will see ...

 

Which lens did the camera come with?

[DeathtoToasters1 0]

Its gotta compensate to see in the low light, hence the darker it is the more pixelisation you will see ...

 

Which lens did the camera come with?

 

Ahhh ok...so when looking for other cameras in a better quality range, what specs do I want to look for that will produce less pixeliation? Or unless I go with the unit that has the color and b/w separate cameras, I am always going to experience it?

 

I got the H2 model which has the 2.5-6 mm Varifocal Auto Iris Lens.

 

Should I have gotten the 3.8-9.5mm Varifocal Auto Iris Lens ?

 

I wonder if it is possible to get a different lens all together on there.

 

Thanks

DTT

[rory 0]

Even with a pure BW camera, without enough light you will experience pixelising as it compensates for the extreme low light condition .. there are some cameras now that digitise the BW effect and remove alot of the noise, cant comment on those though.

 

The old cameras were probably 1/4" cameras and if they had 6mm lenses then theyd be more in the area of the 9mm in these 1/3" lenses .. though thats pretty narrow for a single camera shot ..

[jisaac 0]

when you guys are talking about it pixelating in bw are you talking about it increasing the grainieness in the image as the agc kicks on?

If you want an image that has less grainieness to it get with with digital noise reduction. The panasonic 480/484 series works great for that. Especially with mpeg type transmissions. Your bit rate will drop significantly allowing you to transmit at 25% percent the rate you were.

 

 

notice the bit rate between the two.

And also notice the compression rate

 

 

 

[rory 0]

The 484 isnt as low lux as most BW cameras though (and some other Day Nights) going by its specs (0.06) .. which is why the BW's still pixelise when they are viewing in very low lighting (0.01-). In the kind of light levels the 484 sees in, the BW camera shouldnt pixelise. Though the bullet camera he is using im not sure the BW lux level, the 484 should be much better than that one in low light, but he doesnt want a box cam. Though that Pano would be a great choice if he did (or the GE Exview Day Night for even lower lux) ..

[DeathtoToasters1 0]

Can any experts comment on the following thread for me?

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6737

 

Thanks

[GECAMGUY 0]

Wow KT&C was recommended? Really? Well I guess for low cost cameras they do a pretty good job.

 

The reason your new camera is "grainier" is that it's Signal To Noise Ratio is different, most likely because the new camera has the gain turned up in low-light.

 

I don't know what your older camera was, but chances are it either had limited AGC or none at all, or else KT&C just pre-configures this camera with higher gain.

 

The thing that counts is you're happier with the new camera, and that's all that really counts

 

Your next step would be a true Day/Night camera with a removable IR cut filter, which gives you true IR response and far less graininess in low light.

 

Happy Surveilling

 

-GECAMGUY

[DeathtoToasters1 0]

I thought the KT&C had the mechanical IR filter. It says that it does....

 

 

 

Wow KT&C was recommended? Really? Well I guess for low cost cameras they do a pretty good job.

 

The reason your new camera is "grainier" is that it's Signal To Noise Ratio is different, most likely because the new camera has the gain turned up in low-light.

 

I don't know what your older camera was, but chances are it either had limited AGC or none at all, or else KT&C just pre-configures this camera with higher gain.

 

The thing that counts is you're happier with the new camera, and that's all that really counts

 

Your next step would be a true Day/Night camera with a removable IR cut filter, which gives you true IR response and far less graininess in low light.

 

Happy Surveilling

 

-GECAMGUY

[securitymonster 0]

The N600 does have a mechanical IR cut filter. That camera is not bad for the money either!

[DeathtoToasters1 0]

How dows this camera compare?

 

http://www.digitalwatchguard.com/securitycameras/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=431&idproduct=1535

[GECAMGUY 0]

I thought the KT&C had the mechanical IR filter. It says that it does....

 

Oh my apologies then. I had KT&C come in a couple months ago and none of the units they showed me had a Removable IR cut filters.

 

GECAMGUY

[cctv_down_under 0]

Jmac is spot on, what you are seeing is the gain level when in low light mode, IMHO too many people just go off spec sheets, i ahev ementioned many times that there are many ways to make those specs lie and cheat, not only that you should choose a camera that lets you manually adjust gain levels....when a manufactorer sets a mode for low light they will go for the highest setting, this means loads of noise and loads of unwanted recordings, not to mention references when using compressions like MPEG4 etc for transmitting video.

 

I am not going to runt hrough all the things to read on the spec sheet again, but what you should definately look for in a camera is the following.

 

1/ Look if it has an IR cut filter

2/ Make sure that the camera has a relay trigger to switch between modes, it is no good setting it up for low light and expecting it to handle daylight, they are one extreme to another, yes I know shutters can be set but in reality it is easier to find a camera that supports modes...thjen what you do is when you run your coax or what have you, run two data wires, connect these to the relay on the back of the cam and to your I/O output on your DVR, set your dvr to activate the output at sunset and force your camera to night mode from day mode.

3/ Make sure your camera allows you to adjust the Gain Control, if you can manually adjust it then you can throttle "overkill" back so that you get a better result.

 

In all seriousness I use the Bosch range becasue it is so easy to configure them at the DVR end through the Bilinx tool, this means I can slide the settings up and down and set the three modes "24hr" "Low Light" and "Traffic" and from there just a few twekas can make such a difference, I really suggest you try a good lens and a LTC0495 cam, you should be very pleasantly surprised

[cctv_down_under 0]

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6562

[kensplace 0]

Is the bilinx thingy a hardware tool or is it software? Either way, is the protocol available for it?

 

I miss the ability to be able to remotely control cams, I have some ability with the bbv setup, but other stuff I bought (despite the claims from the manu) are closed protocol so useless to me.

 

Sounds handy though, its next to impossible to properly adjust a cam in situ, remote is the best way to get the best out of a cam.

[rory 0]

its an expensive thingy ...

Not sure about the Protocols and Bosch, but GE gives them, Sanyo might also, they both have zoom cameras.

 

PS. Best focusing is done under low light and before you install the camera, definately not over the network, nor using an LCD.

[kensplace 0]

Will keep an eye out for those makes, love being able to get protocols

 

The one thing I am looking forward to with the fact the cctv is becoming more technologicaly involved is all those manu's with closed protocols will soon become dinosoaurs as the rest of the world overtakes them with products that are not only open, but actually have really good features (and are a heck of a lot cheaper).

 

Many current manus are relying on ignorance, people dont know that the feaure should not cost a fortune, so they buy it. When competition opens up, they wont stand a chance.

[Thomas 0]

I haven't run into any of the manufacturers who won't give the protocols. The only troubles I've ever seen were with some of the older protocols that thier support people didn't have on hand.

[kensplace 0]

Gave up trying to get some protocols, it looks like the only way I would be able to get them would be to capture the protocol from a real controller and figure it out that way.

 

Molynx/bewator has a propriatery protocol for its telemetery, which they wont release. You can get a 'open protocol' from them, but it means buying a converter - which just converts one protocol to theirs, pointless really, may as well just send the correct protocol to start with and cut out the extra un-needed equipment.

 

Plettac wont even reply to emails regarding their protocol for their cameras.

 

Pelco on the other hand were great, no problems at all getting the protocol from them!