Need help: don't know wheather to go PC or stand-alone

[Robert Oaks 0]

For over a year we have been building our own PC, and installing 30fps GEO cards- usually 16 ch- with windows 2000; 3-120 hard drives; good quality mother board, video card, and usually 512 mem. Installing the GEO cards, and getting it setup is a royal pain! So, we started looking at stand-alone DVR units. The single biggest problem with all that we looked at is too small storage, for the video pictures. Our systems are used in commercial banks, and we need a minimum of 5 to six months storage (motion only, 10 hours a day, 5 days a week). This is not a problem with the systems we build, but seems to be a big problem with stand-alone units (unless we go into the $5,000 plus range, which our budget will not allow). The biggest problem with the systems that we build seems to be windows itself: et. the system freezing; memory loss-blue screen; etc. Is there a pc based system that uses (what I know as) an embedded chip? Does anyone care to share some helpful information on a system that we might consider that will full fill our needs? Thank you. Blythe

[AVCONSULTING 0]

Look at the General Solutions S120 series which is essentially a PC Based unit but using XP embedded. I've heard very good reports on the stability of the system from on of my distributors (I wish I repped the line) and it has the file compaction needed to get very long term recordings. I understand the pricing is very reasonable.

 

http://www.generalsolutions.net/products/S-Class.asp

[rory 0]

well im getting so far 3 months on motion only recording, on a 4 channel GE StoreSafe DVR 40GB, so thats not bad is it? Playback is generally real time also, unless all cameras have motion then it splits it up.

[Robert Oaks 0]

Look at the General Solutions S120 series which is essentially a PC Based unit but using XP embedded. I've heard very good reports on the stability of the system from on of my distributors (I wish I repped the line) and it has the file compaction needed to get very long term recordings. I understand the pricing is very reasonable.

 

http://www.generalsolutions.net/products/S-Class.asp

 

 

Thank you for this information: I have looked @ the web site, and I like this unit. I plan to phone them tomorrow. If the price is OK, will definitely plan to order a sample unit. Thanks again.

[cctv_down_under 0]

The Obvious short comings with a standalone are the following:

 

1/ A lack of features not to mention the lack of ability to be easily upgraded, features are the key to future devleopments, I mean isn't a VCR a standalone? Computers give room for more improvements than a Standlone does.

 

2/ Stability... One floor that exists with a standalone is that it uses the same parts as a PC does (most of them) therefore it is just as prone to fualts, the only true difference is in the operating system itself, for example if the VGA chip dies on a PC machine it is easily changed on site in a few minutes sometimes..even by the end user themselves, but if this happens on a standalone, a whole replacement of the DVR must be ordered and this means you have to keep stock of them which is much more expensive than a few video cards.

 

3/ You have mentioned that there is little difference well I disagree... your kalatel unit is the same one you bought from day one, the PCI card I bought at the same time has seen over 20 changes to it and they were free and at no cost to me, I can also much more easily customise the system to my needs, software on PCI cards is much better than a standalone in many ways,...The kalatel unit lets you email thats nice but not very impressive.. it has not been designed to send the video to a control room as a stream, dump a data base, co interlace with POS and text you as well as buffer to another DVR.. Standlones can not share network bandwidth as well, you can aadjust this on a PCI card, you can even throttle it, there is no two way audio on the Kalatel and you must run software to remotely view the log files and if you back up on media then you are required to use the encoded softwrae to play back what you have recorded.

 

If too many users connect to a standalone it will suffer for the small Ram it has in it, you can avaoid this by using multiple machines on the one network to share the workload or you could add more ram.

PC systems can be configured over several operating systems and many file formats, but most importantly the big issue for a Standalone is price versus speed, because there is not true CPU integration and no room to move, most standalone machines rarely capture over 50FPS and these are expensive as hell. You mentioned that there werent many features that you would use but I can think of many... Personalising the password entry system for one, Object tracking for another, buffuring the video off site, listening in to mulitple channels of audio, replacing the desktop, Object counting, licence plate recognition, and the ability to buffer frames for recording on the fly and not a at a predisgned value. how about PTZ Motion tracking or Database recording of whom has loged into and out of your system, Computer based time syncronisation, the abilty of firewall integration, AVI repair utilities or multichannel Audio recording, what about a corporate job where mapping and twin screen display could be used, unlumited I/O relays, integration for safe shutdown through the use of a UPS device, multiple level digital zoom, de interlace rendering, control room software for free.. you pay for the enterprise gear from kalatel and its the same thing. or what about the COST the 50 FPS Geo is a thing of the past I can buy maybe 8 100FPS cards for the price of one standalone.

 

4/ Reliabilty is not myth but way over exagerated, the truth is that you cant just waltz in and get the bits to make a Kalatel but you can to make a PC and when anyone can do it then it is up to the ability of the engineer in making these devices, I mean kalatel (well actually whichever company they source from) would have studied the hardware for compatability but with a PC anyone can use any part, but if you were to compare the prices you would find that paying the same amount for QUALITY computer components would make a very very stable system. Lets face it Linux is more stable than Windows but arent you running that on the same hardware so what is the difference between the ram in your Kalatel and the Ram I use, both can fail but let me tell you the ram in the Kalatel that I saw was OEM ram and I bet that raises a few eyebrows to anyone here that knows computers, it does not matter what OS it uses if you use bad ram.. I mean if Linux is so darn stable why does no one use it much.. because its a pain to use!!!!! and is hard to update!!!! Drivers are harder to write for!!!! so go figure!!

 

tell em is an XBOX a standlone or a PC, you see it can be upgraded but is it really a PC, its an embedded OS, but whom has not seen one crash????

You can put Linux on an XBOX and use it as a firewall.. actually a very cheap way to do it, but will it play Half Life 2 when it comes out NO... because it isnt as easy to upgrade as a PC so when the latest and greatest comes out it will be on PC because THAT is where the money is spent on development.. not really in Standalones... with a Standalone you are stuck with what you got, there is no updating hardware without expense and this is why PC Gaming is much more popular.. do you know what drives Intel and others to make new hardware that we can use for DVR's... GAMES.. yep thats right.. End Users on PC's they are what drive the development of new ways to display and capture, do you know what drives the development of CCTV networking.... PC USERS NEEDS FOR INTERNET!! and once againt he future of all CCTV will be driven from WIFI and this will be strongly contributed by PC users needs again!

 

The Kalatel is a PC so is the XBOX and yes some are more stable than others but if built well the MYTH is put to bed!

 

I admit that XP has its issues but not by anywhere near the amount you state, granted though it is more suscepatble to attack but thats like expecting terrorism in NewZealand compared to the US!! There is more users so it is easier to attack, more of a target because it stands out and more scrutinized than anyone else. A WELL built PC can OUTPERFORM, any hybrid miniture PC embedded or not and is easier to use, with more functionality, I agree there is less headaches with a standalone but the limitations versus stabilty is not something I have seen and the MYTH is too strong. I just ugraded to version 6.1 of Geovision and you have probably only changed your sofware twice.

 

Yes there will always be badly built machines in the market and yes this will lead toa bad name, but as I have said before, people pay me because they know I know my stuff, they cant make much of a choice if someone sells your product to them.. its the same no matter who you get it off. One thing I will say though is because the standalone is so limited it has the abilty to limit support which is a massive plus and yes if you only do small jobs then you may never need it but who wants to stay doing small jobs?

[rory 0]

http://www.securitysa.com/article.asp?pklArticleID=1992&pklIssueID=273&pklCategoryID=3

 

In surveillance the main priority should be reliability. Embedded technology has the edge over PC-based DVRs when it comes to reliability. The core reason, is the embedded operating software is dedicated to managing video, where PC-based operating systems handle multiple processes simultaneously, potentially causing a higher level of failure.

 

With PC-based systems an operator may be required to operate a system that is beyond his IT expertise. However, embedded technology allows for much easier operation and is more user-friendly, leaving more time for the operator to fulfil his job description with greater ease and functionality. Management on the other hand have the full flexibility of a graphical user interface.

[Robert Oaks 0]

Look at the General Solutions S120 series which is essentially a PC Based unit but using XP embedded. I've heard very good reports on the stability of the system from on of my distributors (I wish I repped the line) and it has the file compaction needed to get very long term recordings. I understand the pricing is very reasonable.

 

http://www.generalsolutions.net/products/S-Class.asp

 

 

These people (General Solutions) seem to be very difficult to deal with. Could you point me towards a good distributor of this product? Thanks

[AVCONSULTING 0]

I'm only familiar with West Coast guys. I know VSSI is a distributor and they have sold several of the systems. Warren Partin one of their managers is the most familiar with the embedded system. Here is his email and also a link to their website. Warren is at the Corona office.

 

warren@vsscctv.com

 

www.vsscctv.com

 

They are a very large GSS distributor and I'm sure can help you out.