Kalatel or Dedicated Micro DVR

[maquilina 0]

Hi,

 

I am new to this forum and this is my first post.

 

I am looking for for a CCTV system for my home after discovering damage

to my home on a few ocasions in the past few months.

 

I've looked into DVR's for a while and have settled to what I believe are two

very good DVR's. One is the Kalatel DVMRe-10CT and the other is the Dedicated Micro Digital Sprite 2 DVR.

 

Does anyone have experiences with these DVR's (good and bad) and have an opinion on which you believe is the better DVR.

 

Thank you for any input.

 

Michael

[rory 0]

depends, where do you live?

 

If you are in the US, the Kalatel, if in the UK, probably DM.

Edited July 14, 2004 by Guest

[maquilina 0]

I live in Australia and both DVR's are available to me. The Kalatel is AUS$200 cheaper in a quote that I have. So going on price the Kalatel wins, however I was looking for some comments on peoples experiences with reliability and networking issues.

 

I'm looking at networking the DVR, so if anyone has used the remote software, I would like to hear your experience.

 

Thank you,

Michael

[rory 0]

I have several online Kalatels out there, they network great.

 

they are very reliable and stable, and take only minutes to install and train the employees. Remote video is simple and great. Kalatel had DVRs before DM, have a wider range of DVRs and configurations, and also manufacture a wide range of high end CCTV equipment, so they definatelty know the CCTV industry in and out. Now owned by GE, they have a ton of funds to support their R&D(edit).

 

If you want a demo to check out, email me, Ill give you a link to some software and a demo IP. If you already have downloaded WaveReader you can use that also, I can give you 2 IPs so you can test the multi-site feature (only 3 cams on one and 4 on the other but still).

 

I originally was going to go with the DM but after looking into the Kalatel I eventually switched and still like their specs and network software more than DM's.

 

A couple mux/single ch DVRs been up over 2 years, and more lately the storesafes and DVMRe-CTs, they never fail and require no maintenance.

 

Also, of you are programming literate and into that, you can obtain a developers control to make your own software. Also they all 'now' come with browser based software on board.

 

Rory

[rory 0]

that being said, though no hands on with DM, I have heard they are great also.

[cctv_down_under 0]

I have tested both, the Kalatel wins on features and ease of use for backup purposes but the Sprte has got better remote software and third parrty control room software.

 

The kalatel does do a better resolution recording but the DM is tighter on file size.

 

The DM is easeir to use for features as it has less but the Kalatel is mighty powerfull indeed, If your In Australia, just give me a holler.

 

Try DAS they were clearing out some DM's a while back, very cheap.

 

Overall the sofwtare for DM looks much prettier but the Kalatel outperforms it excepting speed and once you learn how to use it it is quite easy to use.. very frustrating until you do... not that it is complicated, just that it is very different control wise, so it takes some time to adjust, but I imagine that if you use it a fair bit it would be like clockwork..

 

Last thing... DM is the only DVr I have not been able to crash.. Finnaly crashed a Dallmier.. that was the other one that had never failed.. I have crashed a Kalatel and have heard of others crashing them, but thier uptime is INSANELY good and a few crashes is ok.

 

The DM also has a better powersupply in it and is more robust, but the Kalatel uses a really good CDRW (plextor).

 

Either way you can not go wrong, you would find that the faster model of DM would be worth the investment but if you are not connecting 16 cams I would go for the Kalatel as it is (untill today) the best standalone I have ever seen.

 

http://www.austarsecurity.com.au/austar/products.asp?cid=1336

 

i sell a 100FPS 16 Ch without HDD Satandlaone for $2000 AUD if you are interested but the Kalatel kills it for ease of use. Mind you for $2650 AUD I can give you a geovision 100FPS DVR 16 CH and that kills all three with features!

[rory 0]

I have tested both

 

You havent tested the unit that he is asking about. DVMRe CT - different monster all together.

 

Last thing... DM is the only DVr I have not been able to crash.. Finnaly crashed a Dallmier.. that was the other one that had never failed.. I have crashed a Kalatel and have heard of others crashing them, but thier uptime is INSANELY good and a few crashes is ok.

 

Ive never heard of that, no Kalatel units have ever crashed on me. Once again, you are also comparing the storesafe only, which is the Kalatel's low end unit. Totally different machines. How do you crash it?? Throw it on the floor? Thats like saying I crashed a VCR, its not a windows PC, it will never crash.

 

 

The DM also has a better powersupply in it and is more robust, but the Kalatel uses a really good CDRW (plextor).

The DVMRe does not have a CDRW.

 

Either way you can not go wrong, you would find that the faster model of DM would be worth the investment but if you are not connecting 16 cams I would go for the Kalatel as it is (untill today) the best standalone I have ever seen.

 

agreed, but when you say faster, do you mean in pps? the new Kalatel DVMRe-PRO has a DVDRW and 120pps. As for the fan, I havent even seen one in the DVMRe, it is so thin and strong, its more of a machine than the StoreSafe, its as thin as a standard mux.

 

I still agree DM is a nice unit, I personally dont like their software, though it does look pretier, thats what originally had me leaning their way, but went with the Kalatel for the more power and features.

[steve6690 0]

i sell a 100FPS 16 Ch without HDD Satandlaone for $2000 AUD if you are interested but the Kalatel kills it for ease of use. Mind you for $2650 AUD I can give you a geovision 100FPS DVR 16 CH and that kills all three with features!

 

That's very cheap for a complete system (or expensive if it's just the Geo card)

[cctv_down_under 0]

that is a complete System,, My apologies to Rory, I have not tested fully the DVRMe only the store safe and my recommendations above pertain to that product.

 

How did I crash it rory.... well lets see the third time I connected the remote view it froze... and had the perfect systems of an access violation in memory.. you know why Rory bercause it is a PC, it has ram sticks and they can fail... You know I used to put up with you saying standalone was more stable and to some extent I agree but you got to far... You must have crashed a Kalatel as It IS a PC.. it is people like yo that put the fear into PC users of DVR ad this is ill informed information and very incorrect.

 

It alos crashed when one of the buttons got stuck in the on position and also crashed while backing up to some blank disk, lastly I made it crash by rapidly turning it on and off.. but that is a little unfair!

[maquilina 0]

Thank you all for your input.

 

Thank you rory for giving me access to your Kalatel installations so that I

can try out the remote software.

 

Thanks DVD_Expert for the link to your site. Mighty impressive DVR's! I am

not looking into a PC because I want to put the unit in a cupboard and network it to my PC I have in the study. I don't have the space to have

another PC running with a monitor, keyboard and mouse.

 

I had the DM and Kalatel remote software running side-by-side and they

both look good. To me it looks like the Kalatel remote software has many

more features and its layout is in a more familiar Windows style look and feel.

 

I have visited DAS in Melbourne and they gave me a demonstration of the

Kalatel DVMRe-16CT (with only about 6 cameras connected) and the

remote software.

 

I just found out that upgrading from the 80GByte unit to 160GBytes is $570 AUD. That is pretty expensive given that they are just IDE drives that I

can purchase for a fraction of the price.

 

Given your feedback and opinions in other threads that I have read the

Kalatel unit now my preferred choice.

 

Thans again,

Michael

[rory 0]

that is a complete System,, My apologies to Rory, I have not tested fully the DVRMe only the store safe and my recommendations above pertain to that product.

 

How did I crash it rory.... well lets see the third time I connected the remote view it froze... and had the perfect systems of an access violation in memory.. you know why Rory bercause it is a PC, it has ram sticks and they can fail... You know I used to put up with you saying standalone was more stable and to some extent I agree but you got to far... You must have crashed a Kalatel as It IS a PC.. it is people like yo that put the fear into PC users of DVR ad this is ill informed information and very incorrect.

 

It alos crashed when one of the buttons got stuck in the on position and also crashed while backing up to some blank disk, lastly I made it crash by rapidly turning it on and off.. but that is a little unfair!

 

The Remote Software Crashed, thats just WaveReader. Its a machine, or to please you, a microelectronic device/computer, NOT A PERSONAL COMPUTER which ALways runs Windows OS, that is what it is called by the manufacturer or Power PC parts, which make up the DVRs.

 

If the actual local device crashed, then you have a bad DVR, none of mind have done that. Sure any electronic (not just PC) device can crash, alarm controls do it also, and they are not PCs.

[rory 0]

Thank you all for your input.

 

Thank you rory for giving me access to your Kalatel installations so that I

can try out the remote software.

 

Thanks DVD_Expert for the link to your site. Mighty impressive DVR's! I am

not looking into a PC because I want to put the unit in a cupboard and network it to my PC I have in the study. I don't have the space to have

another PC running with a monitor, keyboard and mouse.

 

I had the DM and Kalatel remote software running side-by-side and they

both look good. To me it looks like the Kalatel remote software has many

more features and its layout is in a more familiar Windows style look and feel.

 

I have visited DAS in Melbourne and they gave me a demonstration of the

Kalatel DVMRe-16CT (with only about 6 cameras connected) and the

remote software.

 

I just found out that upgrading from the 80GByte unit to 160GBytes is $570 AUD. That is pretty expensive given that they are just IDE drives that I

can purchase for a fraction of the price.

 

Given your feedback and opinions in other threads that I have read the

Kalatel unit now my preferred choice.

 

Thans again,

Michael

 

Hi, you can actually change the hard drive yourself using the same type (maxtor same model), but the warranty is void if returned as is, as the Serial number of the DVR is the same as the DVR's serial number. Way around it, by a 40GB DVMRE-CT, add the hard drive you want, then just keep the original hard drive that came with it incase you have to return it for warranty, just place the original hard drive in it! You will save yourself alot of $$. I too am amazed that they charge so much for an upgrade of hard drive sizes, seems they are all keeping in competition with each other, DM, Phillips, etc. all do the same when it comes to hard drive upgrades.

[AVCONSULTING 0]

You are very devious Rory but I like that idea. I will remember that trick in case I ever need to upgrade an embedded DVR. BTW, Oz, it isn't Rory that destroyed the PC based image, at least here in the U.S. (or in SoCal which for most part is the U.S. - I'll get bashed for that one). It is the proliferation of backyard low quality DVR boiler rooms that are pumping out substandard cheap PC based DVRs, having them all crash, and then closing shop and running out on everyone. Dealers who have been burned, and there are many of them, now refuse to use a PC based DVR and Rory never even visited L.A. This area is so embedded in embedded that I can't even carry my PC based line of DVRs into some accounts or they will throw me out.

[rory 0]

Thats not even real the reason in my case; windows is windows, it has a higher chance of failure/crash, whether its from the DVR's software or hardware drivers, or corupt windows files, not too mention all the security risks involved with the more recent XP. Windows runs multiple processes where an embedded system only runs the video process.

 

Getting totally away from stability for now, the fact that I prefer a smaller compact unit that I can stick in a closet and never have to touch for years, no monitor, keyboard, or mouse required, plug it into the LAN or WAN and just connect remotely when you need to.

 

PC's have their place, but its not in my professional security installations. I want in and out, no building or testing, easy use without need for a PC if not required, and high quality local video. I could build a PC based Alarm Control, with many more features than the normal panels, but they would never be allowed to be installed, under UL especially. Most PCs (personal computers) would never survive in the conditions that I have my embedded systems located, high heat, dust, etc. without a ton of fans that would eventually burn out and require replacement.

[cctv_down_under 0]

I agree but you have to admit that Rory sees it different to everyone else.. and it is this kind of mentality and constant negative feedback that drives the mood against WELL BUILT pc products, I mean if Rory said " cheaply built PC's are not stable" then he would get a thumbs up from me.. but that is not what he is saying and making statements that windows is not stable form someone that is still using ME.. come on!!!

 

The fact is that ONLY in the US is embedded more popular at the moment and yes it is increasing as they begin to come close with features, but if I blanketed every standalone as ...SLOW for instance it would be wrong.. because some do 400FPS, I could easily say Standalones are cheaply made, but some aren't!! My point is that he refuses to admit his products come from Asia.. and you and I both know they do!!

 

Made in the US of A is hardly a term for assembling a board that was really MADE in Asia and to state that the Kaltel is not a PC is a Joke.. cmon you can stick a cat in a microwave but it sure isn't a biscuit!!!

 

It has Ram sticks, CPU, Motherboard, Video display chip, CDRW.. for gods sake a CDRW can ONLY work on a PC Based OS!!.. Calling it micro pc power parts is a joke and I am so fed up with it that I am prepared to make 95 run on it just to prove a point!

 

I dont mind people voicing their opinions and god knows I voice mine.. but to be so single minded in the approach is ridiculas.. the POLL I raised showed that many more people use PC than Standalone and god knows how many people have told Rory they have a perfectly stable PC but he refuses to accept it and that in its self is his choice.. but the problem is that he posts the most, 500% above most others so everyone reads how unstable PC's are and they arent!! I mean who puts on a clipboard the put down for PC and then saves time for posting it by cutting and pasting!

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but to be so narrow minded about it is absurd!

 

I admit with AV that their are lots of cowboys around, but there are loads of good ones out there too. For every person that wants to install a plug and play.. fire and forget.. DVr there is another that is happy to get the upgrade install new options and load new software.. Look a PC is a PC and will never be as stable as a VCR but paying for a good one works very well,, but my main argument is this!!

 

THE ONLY DIFFERECE BETWEEN THE KALATEL AND A PCI DVR IS THE O/S.. thats it!!! INFACT IT IS MADE WITH CHEAPER COMPONENTS THAN I WOULD EVER DREAM OF USING!

 

This argument will never die but I hate the justified price hike for something that is cheaper to make.. and they only justify it by people like RORY that are brainwashed into believing the bull****!

 

Anyone who reads this please do not think that I am having a go at RORY, I respect him fully, he is singularly the MOST helpfull person on this forum and has a great wealth of knowledge, not to mention an ace sense of humour, I am upset with the mindset not the person as I realy appreciate RORY and I have learnt a considerable amount from him indeed.

[Thomas 0]

Um, not to take sides in this debate but there are some facts by both of you that are wrong.

 

1. Power PC chips are what powers Macs. Currently they are made by IBM and Motorola. IBM uses chips from that family in some of thier high end bits of big iron. Power PC boards accept the same standard parts that the x86 family does (PCI, AGP, DDR, ect). The major differance between the two is that the power pc stuff is big Endian and the x86 is little endian. (Big Endian reads binary from left to right, little endian reads binary from right to left.) The Power PC's have a smaller instruction set, but that only matters to assembly coders.

 

2. Embeded devices do run more then one proccess. A proccess isn't the same is a program, it's closer to the thread of a program. At least one of those proccesses is an OS of some kind, Another is going to be the writing to the drive, the third will be encoding/decoding the video and the GUI will be a fourth.

 

3. CD-RW does not require a PC. Back in the early 90's the first consumer grade CD burners were released by Phillips and were A/V units that one added to one's home sound system. It didn't take very long for them to move to PC's (since you could have the OS do what the circuts did and more cheaply).

 

4. Embeded units do not have to use standard PC parts. I'm sure many do, but there is no requirement for them to. Many embeded units have embeded ram, OS's stored on CF, ect.

 

5. There are other chip makers then Intel and AMD making x86 CPU's. VIA, Cyrix, and Transmeta all make low power very low heat, high enviromental tolerance CPU's. All three of those comanies all make chips for the home, laptop and embeded markets.

 

Now a thought for people to ponder. Embeded XP can be run on a standard PC. Linux can be set up like the embeded flavors of it (Tivo uses a stock linux 2.4 kernal in thier boxes, they just load things into CF and do some other tricks for speed). The line between appilance and PC is starting to blur in this area.

[rory 0]

Well everyone has a right to their own opinion, so i wont burn on your parade DVR.

 

[cctv_down_under 0]

So Thomas, if The kalatel has this CPU two sticks of non embedded ram and a standard Video chip.. do you consider it a standalone or a PC?

[Thomas 0]

I generally define embeded by the processor. If I can swap it I call it a full PC. Other factors are if it follows the ATX, Mini-ATX, Micro-ATX form factors.

[cctv_down_under 0]

Its a micro atx board and a socket processor

[rory 0]

Thomas, its an IBM Power PC powered micro computer board.

http://www-1.ibm.com/technology/power/about.html

 

and it runs this RTOS:

http://www.acceleratedtechnology.com/

[maquilina 0]

The classic definition of an embedded system is this that I got from

 

http://www.netrino.com/Publications/Glossary/E.html#embedded_system

 

"A combination of computer hardware and software, and perhaps additional mechanical or other parts, designed to perform a dedicated function."

 

These sytems are purpose built to the requirements for the device, the OS, protocols and software has been customised to perform the desired task.

 

A PC is a general purpose machine designed to do a number of tasks.

 

However, we are seeing a bluring of the lines when embedded systems are now using general purpose processors, operating systems and general purpose hardware to perform specific tasks.

 

I personally don't call a PC running Windows, Linux or whatever with some extra hardware and software added an embedded system.

[Sure 0]

To Manquilina,

My personal choice is definatley the Kalatel. It comes witha 3 year warranty and is extremely user friendly. It is the type of unit you can leave alone.

As for pricing DAs Australia was doing some units on special though that was end of financial year stuff. GE (the suppliers of Kalatel have now bought out some extremely competative pricing, worth getting a couple of quotes.

Hard drives can be upgraded but not recommended by supplier therefor losing warranty.

Do you need to go for the CT versions I would presume the Ez version would suffice.

[Thomas 0]

Do you have a picture of the board for that DVR?

[rory 0]

not yet, will get one this weekend