What's wrong with this picture?

[kenquad 0]

Hi all:

 

New to the forum, almost new to CCTV here, please bear with me

 

I'm working on an exterior camera installation. The camera is an Arm C420 with an auto-iris Vari-Focal lens set at about 4mm, mounted in a weatherproof case on a metal wall and facing due west and slightly down (see attached picture of the camera setup). Even at good times, the picture is fuzzy and poor - nothing like my eastern-facing cameras of the same specs on the same building. But when, as now, the sun is high in the western sky, the situation deteriorates into what you see in the snapshot.

 

I'm taking suggestions.

 

What is wrong with this picture? I've focused and focused and focused, using test monitor, and *nothing*. Same problem with 2 other identical cameras on this side of the building, this fuzzy, dim picture that's very susceptible to glare.

 

P.S. This camera shakes atrociously on windy days. Is there some kind of gadget to dampen that effect?

[kensplace 0]

P.S. This camera shakes atrociously on windy days. Is there some kind of gadget to dampen that effect?

 

Looks like you have the exact same camera housing I use on one of my cams, mine does not seem to suffer from shake, so Im guessing where its mounted is flexing in the wind.

 

Is it mounted to panels that may flex? Maybe try mounting it to something very solid instead, if possible.

[CameraGenius 0]

try positioning the camera at a different angle, sometimes depending on what angle the camera is pointed the picture can appear to be blurry or even rigid at some straight points

[marzsit 0]

are all the cameras on one power supply? i had a problem once with low voltage on siamesed cable that caused a blurry image.. rewired and powered the camera from a wall wart 20 feet away, solved the problem.

 

sheet metal buildings buckle something fierce in the wind.. if you can move the camera mount from the flat area to one of the "peaks" you'll have a bit more ridgidity, you'll probably need to customize the mount to do this however.

[survtech 0]

Have you checked the image at the source? I'm wondering if this is a problem with image transmission and not the camera itself. It looks like you are running a siamese cable. Perhaps you have the wrong termination or no termination.

 

Also try a different lens. I've seen brand new lenses that would not focus properly.

 

And yes, those types of buildings are not the most stable mounting platforms. Try to get the mount attached to the frame for the siding. Look where the screws that attach the siding are and mount your camera on the same plane. That should be much more stable. Or get a mount that spreads the weight over a larger area.

[CSG 0]

maybe screw a 2'x2' 3/4 exterior plywood "plate" to the building, painted to match, and screw the mount to that. That will spread the load over a larger area and reduce flexing. Will also help insulate the camera from lightning shocks. metal building zap.

[rory 0]

Looks perty ..

what type of cable is that? (just curious)

 

What the others said, it will or should shake a little with that mounting location, but not enough to make it stay out of whack, ive worked on some mounted on those before. Make sure the lens is tightned on good so that when it shakes its not shaking it out of focus .. if thats even possible

[kenquad 0]

Wow, six helpful replies in one night!

 

Looks like you have the exact same camera housing I use on one of my cams, mine does not seem to suffer from shake, so Im guessing where its mounted is flexing in the wind.

 

Is it mounted to panels that may flex? Maybe try mounting it to something very solid instead, if possible.

 

Yes, the panel flexes. I thought that might be it, but drilling more holes....

 

try positioning the camera at a different angle, sometimes depending on what angle the camera is pointed the picture can appear to be blurry or even rigid at some straight points

 

Thanks, I'll try that. But "rigid"? What does that mean?

 

 

are all the cameras on one power supply? i had a problem once with low voltage on siamesed cable that caused a blurry image.. rewired and powered the camera from a wall wart 20 feet away, solved the problem.

 

Yeah, the whole setup is split between three power supplies, and siamesed cable runs to everything. You know, I made a slight change in cable types and most all the troublesome cameras are on the new kind of cable. A good thought.

 

Have you checked the image at the source?

 

Yes, I've checked the image with a 3' test cable and a small monitor. No joy. If there's a problem with the siamese it must be on the power transmission side.

 

maybe screw a 2'x2' 3/4 exterior plywood "plate" to the building, painted to match, and screw the mount to that. That will spread the load over a larger area and reduce flexing. Will also help insulate the camera from lightning shocks. metal building zap.

 

Is there a big risk of lightning damage to security cameras mounted less than 20' up on a 2-story building? What's building zap?

 

what type of cable is that? (just curious)

Just a plain old siamesed coax run. Maybe that's my problem

 

Thanks for the input, one and all. I test out these ideas and re-post with results.

[rory 0]

cool, yeah i asked cause i thought it was siamese, but i never saw that in blue before

[CollinR 0]

maybe screw a 2'x2' 3/4 exterior plywood "plate" to the building, painted to match, and screw the mount to that. That will spread the load over a larger area and reduce flexing. Will also help insulate the camera from lightning shocks. metal building zap.

 

Works. I'll add, if you put the plate on the inside your customers won't care. On the outside it will swell and warp and eventually fall apart, it'll last a good long while outside though.

[kenquad 0]

Hi all:

 

No joy.

 

I tried wiring the cam directly into a 12v power supply. Absolutely no change, so we can rule out power transmission as the issue.

 

I tried changing the angle. Again, no great change.

 

Only thing I found out was what I dimly knew before: the signal coming from the camera is much better than the one I see on the DVR. Testing with a monitor out in the sun is tricky, so I tried bringing the monitor inside and got the real picture. I tried turning the DVR brightness setting down to -103, and that helped mitigate the wash-out effect a little bit, but the grainy and out-of-focus problem remained.

 

I'm kind of stuck.

 

The DVR (an Arm MPEG-4 16-channel model running embedded Linux) renders other channels, even the east-facing outdoor ones, OK. Yet it seems to be the culprit here.

 

Again, I'm soliciting opinions.

 

Thanks!

 

[survtech 0]

If the picture looks better at the camera, you must have a cabling or termination issue. What is the length of cable between the camera and the DVR? Is that twisted-pair or coax? Is the DVR input properly terminated?

[kenquad 0]

If the picture looks better at the camera, you must have a cabling or termination issue. What is the length of cable between the camera and the DVR? Is that twisted-pair or coax? Is the DVR input properly terminated?

 

Well, I wasn't clear on that. I tried a test monitor at the DVR, using the same cable, and it was still better than the DVR's output. The cable's only about 30' long. I have the same problem with a run about 200' long.

 

Duh, uh, what's termination?

[survtech 0]

Termination is a load equal to the impedance of the cable. The DVR should terminate coax (or a balun converting twisted pair to coax) with 75 ohms. By the way, what type of cable is that? Is it twisted pair? If it is twisted pair and not coaxial cable, do you have a balun at each end (or at the DVR end if the camera has direct hookup for twisted pair cable).

 

Most DVR's will automatically terminate their BNC inputs with 75 ohm. But some may have a switch at each input or a control in software that would remove the termination so that the camera signal can be "looped" through to another piece of equipment.

 

The last piece of equipment in a loop has to have proper termination or the picture may looked washed out and blurry.

[CSG 0]

[is there a big risk of lightning damage to security cameras mounted less than 20' up on a 2-story building? What's building zap?

 

well, sensitive electronics (camera) bolted to a metal housing bolted to a metal mount screwed to a metal building with metal framing into the ground.....

 

summer thunderstorm comes by and strikes the building, or even nearby,, a tree, the ground, camera might get tickled by stray voltages, might blow the cam.

 

a insulator (plywood) will make your mount more ridgid, and provide some protection at the same time.

[phred 0]

[is there a big risk of lightning damage to security cameras mounted less than 20' up on a 2-story building? What's building zap?

 

well, sensitive electronics (camera) bolted to a metal housing bolted to a metal mount screwed to a metal building with metal framing into the ground.....

 

summer thunderstorm comes by and strikes the building, or even nearby,, a tree, the ground, camera might get tickled by stray voltages, might blow the cam.

 

a insulator (plywood) will make your mount more ridgid, and provide some protection at the same time.

 

 

 

Two of the safest places to be in an electrical storm

Inside a metal clad building or a motor vehicle.

 

The metalwork acts as an efficient conductor allowing the energy to

discharge to ground.

 

Attempting to isolate a camera from a metal building is a waste of time.

There is no insulator that will hold back 100,000,000 volts. Even if you

could do it you would then create a situation where, if lightning struck the

camera, the path of least resistance would now be the cable from the

camera. Not a good idea to put 100,000,000 volts into a DVR.

 

There is nothing you can do that will 100% protect sensitive outdoor

equipment from the effects of lightning – the best you can do is provide

an efficient earth conductor.

 

Suggesting that a plywood sheet is protection from lightning is simply

nonsense. By all means use it to stabilise the camera but please, drop the pseudo science crap.

 

CSG calls himself a professional licensed installer, I can only assume that

they hand licenses out in New York in exchange for a couple of cereal

packet tops.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Guest

[jisaac 0]

I have had the same issue before. Go to your local hardware store and get some nylon screws with the nylon wing nut. tighten it until they the really tight. You will be able to stop the shaking in the wind significantly.

[CollinR 0]

Is it twisted pair? If it is twisted pair and not coaxial cable, do you have a balun at each end (or at the DVR end if the camera has direct hookup for twisted pair cable).

 

I kept quite since so many said it looked like siamese... It doesn't look like siamese to me at all, composite maybe.

 

It looks just like riser rated Cat5 to me, I thought that was the problem. Not really with the picture but riser Cat5 outside.

Edited April 6, 2007 by Guest

[kenquad 0]

Termination is a load equal to the impedance of the cable. The DVR should terminate coax (or a balun converting twisted pair to coax) with 75 ohms. By the way, what type of cable is that? Is it twisted pair? If it is twisted pair and not coaxial cable, do you have a balun at each end (or at the DVR end if the camera has direct hookup for twisted pair cable).

 

Most DVR's will automatically terminate their BNC inputs with 75 ohm. But some may have a switch at each input or a control in software that would remove the termination so that the camera signal can be "looped" through to another piece of equipment.

 

The last piece of equipment in a loop has to have proper termination or the picture may looked washed out and blurry.

 

No joy. Everything's properly terminated in the software. Un-terminating it will clobber the signal, but that doesn't prove much.

[kenquad 0]

Is it twisted pair? If it is twisted pair and not coaxial cable, do you have a balun at each end (or at the DVR end if the camera has direct hookup for twisted pair cable).

 

I kept quite since so many said it looked like siamese... It doesn't look like siamese to me at all, composite maybe.

 

It looks just like riser rated Cat5 to me, I thought that was the problem. Not really with the picture but riser Cat5 outside.

 

Well, it's not twisted pair, that's for sure. What's riser Cat5?

[kenquad 0]

I have had the same issue before. Go to your local hardware store and get some nylon screws with the nylon wing nut. tighten it until they the really tight. You will be able to stop the shaking in the wind significantly.

 

Good idea. Sounds easy!!!

[CollinR 0]

Well, it's not twisted pair, that's for sure. What's riser Cat5?

 

 

If it's not twisted pair it's not Cat5, no worries.

 

Riser is a specification for cabling just like plenum, it's VERY common with ethernet.

 

 

Have you tried plugging that camera into a known good port on the DVR?

 

What happens?

[jisaac 0]

oh ya I left out one more part in the steps with nylon screws and nuts.

be sure to get like three or four nylon washers for each screw and put them behind the mounting bracket in between the aluminum and the bracket.

this will give it complete isolation from the building to the camera housing. (no ground)

[phred 0]

oh ya I left out one more part in the steps with nylon screws and nuts.

be sure to get like three or four nylon washers for each screw and put them behind the mounting bracket in between the aluminum and the bracket.

this will give it complete isolation from the building to the camera housing. (no ground)

 

no ground - apart from the cable

 

 

http://www.lightning.org/?page=faq

[phred 0]

oh ya I left out one more part in the steps with nylon screws and nuts.

be sure to get like three or four nylon washers for each screw and put them behind the mounting bracket in between the aluminum and the bracket.

this will give it complete isolation from the building to the camera housing. (no ground)

 

 

OK, you got me, that was a wind up just to get me on my soapbox