Need advice - repeated targeted burglaries

[Scruit 0]

A friend of mine lives in a home that she is renting from a relative, and has told me that over the last year items have been disappearing from her home - small ornaments, money and even furniture that was in storage in the attic. She recently discovered that an estranged family member who used ot live in the home had stated that the furniture in the attic belonged to him and had tried to remove it many years ago but had been turned away.

 

This lady now believes that the same person has been entering her house while she is away and removing property bit by bit. The police were called and said they could do nothing about her suspicions unless someone saw him at the house.

 

 

She knows I have a camera system so she asked me for advice on installing cameras to catch him in the act. In th elast year she believes he's been in the house 4 or 5 times.

 

 

My advice to her was to start with rekeying all the locks and making sure all doors and windows have substantial locks, then motion lights and all the other basic security doodads. Secondly, I told her that she needs to get a monitored alarm system installed by a professional.

 

I told her that she should consider cameras only AFTER she has the basics of home security in place.

 

 

Well, she still wants cameras and has up to $1,200 to spend.

 

 

I'm thinking a basic 4-channel standalone DVR (Avermedia?) and 4 wired cameras. The labor would be done by me and I wouldn't charge for it. She would like to cover the front and rear doors close enough for good facial recognition of people who come to the door. A longer range camera to cover two cars parked side-by-side approx 40' from the house, and a 4th view that would be wider angle to give an overall view of the back of the house.

 

What 4ch DVR and cameras would be good for that money. I know that more $$ = better cameras, but 1200 is all she has to spend.

[survtech 0]

There is a simple solution to her problem. Change the locks and lock all doors and windows. Then it is breaking and entering!

[rory 0]

^^ what he said ..

 

and get a dog ..

[Scruit 0]

^^ what he said ..

 

and get a dog ..

 

She has 3 dogs - neither apparently do any good.

 

I've told her best bang for the buck is just new locks and a monitored alarm system. We'll see if she takes that advice.

[galen 0]

I don't think she will be happy until she "see's" who is coming in. Give her what she wants. Even though the alarm system would be less money up front. She probably doesn't want the recurring monthly charge for monitoring.

[kensplace 0]

It could take a long time for her to notice something is missing, how often does she check the contents of the attic? If it takes a long time for her to notice, then chances are any evidence will have been long since lost, unless you religiously either .

 

a: Daily review all the footage from when she leaves the house.

b: Archives ALL footage, and is prepared to spend ages reviewing it, after something is noticed missing.

c: have a system that reliably notifies her of movement detected within the house (via phone or email), and she always checks the footage

Does she check ALL her possessions on a regular basis, I know that if someone gained 'peaceful' access to my house, and I did not review the footage of the time it occured, then there are probably LOTS of items I would not notice had gone missing for a long time. Even if I could not find them, I would probably think I had mislaid them...

 

An alarm would help to indicate if someone had been in the house, so she could check the footage over.

 

Changing the locks is a must, as if thats not done, the person would have unrestricted access to the whole house, without arousing suspicion to anyone in the area, and could spend as long as they want searching for and then removing the recording device.

[scorpion 0]

Ha! Ha! Ha!

 

It is not going to happen!!!!!!!!!!

 

OK! I will give it a shot!

 

Video sytem under $1200.00?

 

You will have video of the "action", but you may not have facial recognition! Facial recognition is the only way "beyond all reasonable doubt" to catch this guy!

 

A SYSTEM UNDER $1200.00. HERE GOES!

 

This is not directed to kensplace. This is directed to all of those who read this and have a need to pick and choose from what I post. Please do not be offended with anything I have said. These are just in general and not for any individual.

 

There are various ways to go about this. Ask 10 installers and you will get 10 different answers. I will only describe in simple terms and you will have to modify to your needs/price for your system.

 

1. Come up with a travel path that this individual is walking. Where does he park. I assume he parks in the driveway so that he can load up the goods. Does he walk through an open garage and enter through the house through here? Does he enter the front door with a key? Does he go around the back and enter through a door with a key? Does he shake a "locked" sliding glass till he gains entry?

 

Please do not answer back " no he can't go around back because of fence/row of vicious thorn rose bushes/backyard dog/locked screen porch". I am being general and I do not have pictures to give you a better idea. Once on the inside of the house what is his travel path?

 

2 The travel path is important. I want to use the least amount of cameras than the situation calls for. If I know the travel path than I can place a very good camera at a "cross roads". A living room, or a hallway is what I am trying to describe. Does he enter on the left side of the house and travel to the right side of the house? Put a high quality camera here and use less than desirable cameras else where to document the action. The key location, and a good camera should get you facial recognition.

 

3 If you have some idea what he is prone to take this will help. I ask is he (or she) going after family heirloom items? Why did they live there? Are they family, or married into the family? Are they acting in the interest of someone else because they have knowledge, or entrance? If you can create a "profile" than you can leave out some bait! Put a camera on this!

 

4 Do not go based on this persons idea of what is going on. Be a detective and assume nothing and ask the worst questions to yourself and eliminate these issues one by one.

 

Is this person a little out of touch? Are they suffering dementia? Are they falsly accusing someone for some reason? I have installed a lot of systems and I have become "jaded" after finding out the truth to some of my installs. When I deal with those with dementia, I just cannot take their money! It is not right. OK if they are indendently wealthy and this gives them a peace of mind then there is value to this install.

 

Are they trying to just get something on someone. You better not deal with this person, they may turn on you when they do not get what they want. This person can also be the type to say your system does not meet the standard that you were supposed to install from the forefront! Now make it right or I want my money back. You messed it up now you order the high resolution, long throw IR, with XXmm lens with vari focal, with electronic iris, with IP66 rated, with impact resistance with a silver platter, with a velvet pillow or I will tell everybody what a worthless company/individual/installer that you are!!!!!!!!

 

Sorry! Maybe I am the one with issues! If you are a first time installer expect this. It may happen once and it will change how you do business for ever there after. If you are a "buddy" doing a favor it may be possible to disapoint the one you were really trying to help!

 

5 PARTS SELECTION

 

Cable: Premade cable with ends allready attached are ok. Do not use this for outside installs that are wrapped around the house. Through the attic and down a wall is ok! If you are mounting the camera 30 feet from the recording device, go ahead and order the 100 foot cable. Six months down the road they may have a new issue to resolve and you can move the camera to a new location. A 25 foot cable is going to leave you stuck!

 

If you use wire outside use a good quality wire that can handle the outside environment.

 

Just because you friend has an obcene amount of "wire" in his garage and you can help yourself to as much as you want DONT!!!!!!!! Use the correct wire for the correct job. Stick to good copper r59 with good two conductor for power. Please do not use the 6 conductor wire even though he has a mile of it for the taking! Sorry I know it is for free.

 

Power Supply: I use 12 volt 400 ma power supplies for each camera, but make sure the power supply matches what the cameras needs. Do not skimp with a 200ma for outdoor IR. You will have a failure and you will have to go back and order another and replace it. May as well get the best you can get up front. Also anticipate a future upgrade! Start with a good power supply and you are good to go!

 

CAMERAS:

 

I do not know what to tell you. You need the rigtht camera for the right job! Read the prior posts and you hear "HAD", EXVIEW, LOR, AGC, BACKLIGHT COMPENSATION, etc, etc. Fail to follow everyones advice posted here and you will leave those individuals the right to say I TOLD YOU SO.

 

Tip: In nightclub and bars businesses, there are always those owners who want everything for nothing and wanted it installed for free! Great! These clubs are dark and no camera is going to work! BUT! I have used a minicamera that is B/W , retails for $100.00 or so, and it works real good! Believe it or not! It is not a perfect video, but what do you expect for cheap! I do not know if this camera will work for kensplace, but test it and give it a try. Do not use this for the main facial recognition camera!

 

If I am installing a one or two camera job on the inside I try to sell an outdoor IR, 66 rated camera. Vari focal if I can. I know this sounds like over kill for this kind of a job, but what about 6 months down the road and they have a new issue? You can move this camera outside to solve a new issue, and when it is over you can move it back inside. Baby cribs come to mind. If all of a sudden there is a peeping tom in the news and everyone is freaked out you can move this camera outside to the 14 year old daughters window and then later move it back to the crib on the inside. When they get a new bank account and receive a new debit card in the mail you can put this camera outside to watch the mail box until the card comes in, and you can move it back to the crib. Now the system is flexable and can meet future needs. Yes you spend more money up front but you never have to buy another camera for each freaked out moment that comes along!

 

RECORDING

 

This is a variable!!!!! I would suggest going to a thrift store and buy a couple of VCRs. Get a multiplexor for multiple cameras. DO NOT USE A SWITCHER! Switchers will show your cameras one at a time. First camera one then camera two, then camera 3, the cam..... HEY wait! What is going on at camera 1?????? Now I see camera 4! GRRRRRR! OK now I see camera 1! Hey what is going on at camera 3? GRRRRR!

A multiplexor will show 4 cameras in a quad view all at the same time and you can record them all at the same time with a vcr.

 

THRIFT STORE / PAWN SHOP VCR TIP:

 

Ha! Ha! You got what you paid for!! OK! Make sure you can bring it back. At least for a trade in if they will not give your money back. HERE IS WHAT TO LOOK FOR! Plug it in. Push the channel select down. Channel 6, 5, 4, 3, then 2, it then should go to L1 or AUX. IF this happens you are in luck! This activates the composite video input on the back (or in the front), instead of the screw in part for the cable feed, or the coax connection. The composite connection is the yellow rca video input.

 

If it does not do this be ADVISED! YOU will need the remote control to activate the yellow composite input. If it does not have a remote control stop! Do not buy the VCR! If it has a remote test it with batteries! You will have to press "GAME" or "SOURCE", or "INPUT". Make sure you can activate the video in with the remote control. Test it with a dvd player and a tv!

 

Now buy an 8 hour tape. I recommend at least 7 tapes. Mark them Sunday, Monday, etc. etc all the way to Saturday. Now put todays tape in for recording. Down the road when you need to look at past history you have at least one weeks worth of history.

If you need 24 hour recording you need to have three 8 hour tapes for each day and someone has to push record three times a day!!!!!!!!

 

You are better off getting a DVR. IF you get an entry level one make sure it has networking!

 

DVR:

 

Get a DVR with networking even though you do not need this. This is for future use down the road. Entry level DVR will most likely use Jpeg or J2000, or wavelet compression. It is a bit grainy but it should do the trick!

 

Buy the DVR yourself and rent it out for the price you paid for it, and continue to rent it out and make some money from it. Yes you can rent to various other people who are in need! You can trade your services for something you need in return!

 

I hope this helps someone out there! Good Luck!

[Scruit 0]

I've already explained to her that there's a difference between a image good enough to recognize someone you know, versus a 'wanted poster' image (a pic so good you could put it on a wanted poster).

 

I spoke with her again on friday, and this is turning out to be a scary story. She no longer has even one piece of jewelry as it is all missing. This person she suspects has stated that he owns the furniture, but is not going to admit to taking it. I told her to get a safe for her valuables and her response was; "I've nothing left to put in a safe!"

 

 

A Camera system won't help her unless she can tell very quickly when someone's been in the house. She's changed all the locks and she's also going through an exercise of replacing the hardware ont he windows to ensure they can all lock. I'm heading up there in a couple weeks to take a closer look.

 

I've notice that Lowes and HD don't carry RG59 any more so I've been doing all my cameras with RG6. My lonegst run is about 150' and I've not seen any obvious issues with the video.

 

 

I think what she wants more than anything is peace of mind knowing WHO is doing it. If it is this guy then she can filoe a tresspass order on him, but only if she can prove it was him. That's why the camera is so important to her.

 

 

BTW, this lady is my child's Godmother, so I'm not out to make money from her.

[scorpion 0]

Scruit,

 

It looks like you have all of the hatches batten down and ready to go!

 

Rather than purchase from HD (I shop there alot for tools, low voltage retro rings, wall plates with holes (I enlarge them with a dremel sander attached to my Dewalt for larger cable counts) ) can you work with a distributor in your area? Watch everyone chime back in about using rg6.

Everyone will want you to use the R59. The RG6 does not have a good copper shield. For your short runs if it works I say go for it.

 

You only need one good camera, the rest can be as cheap as you can get them. Would you use those 1"X1" mini cameras for the other cameras?

Here is where I get flamed by everyone for using mini cams. OK GUYS I CAN TAKE IT! Now all you need is one really good camera!

 

It looks like you have studied pretty good! It looks like you are dotting your I's and crossing your T's.

 

My apologies to your child's Godmother for saying she may be suffering from dementia or the like. It was not directed at her, and I was giving advice to all of those silent members of the forum who are trying to resolve their own problems, or they are trying to absorb as much information as they start their own business.

 

I truely hope their was a nugget of information in my post that you can use. What can I do to help you get this system in and running so we can catch this person?

[marzsit 0]

not all rg6 is aluminum, sometimes it can be copper but i doubt any of the home depot/lowes stuff is...

[Rooney 0]

Another way you may be able to go for cheaper than $1200 is motion activated cameras. They take a picture when motion appears in its field of view and stores to a sc card. They arent that expensive and if the person is moving around the house the system can be relatively hidden. Cameras may stand out to whomever is doing it. All they would have to do is trace back the wires to the recorder and steal it. If it is the person that used to live there it would not be hard for them to figure out where the recorder is.

Just a thought.

[scorpion 0]

Yes, those are great! You should be able to find it in any spystore.

It is an MPEG recorder. I have seen them listed under various names and know them as the lynx recorder. I wish I could post a picture to show you what to look for. Another brand is called the cybereye. I am not to familiar with it and cannot give any advice on this.

 

You can hang it on a wall. It almost looks like an a/c thermostat. You could put it on a shelf as well. The video is great off the one i am familiar with. In real time motion the storage time is short. For long periods you can set it to take "snapshots". You will have to find the right setting for the snapshots verses the storage time. If you go to far you can have snapshots spread out real far and you may miss the shot you need.

 

When you want to view the recorded history you grab the device, plug it in to the yellow connector of your tv (composite) and the rca plug on the device. It is that simple!