Sanyo VCB-3524 can this be adjusted to see better at night?

[Tim 0]

I have a Sanyo B/W CCD camera VCB-3524, is there an ajustment I can made to make it see any better at night, I don't much care what it looks like in the day, I'm mostly interested in seeing well at night. Heres a link to the manual.

http://www.sanyo.com/industrial/security/cameras/half_black_white/downloads/VCB-3524_prod.pdf

[AVCONSULTING 0]

First you will need to get an aspherical lens which lets in more light than a normal lens. Here is a link to a series of lenses.

 

http://www.cbcamerica.com/cctvprod/computar/aspher/index.html

[Cooperman 0]

Tim

What lens are you using (auto iris? type?), what are you looking at, and what lighting is available at night. Are you getting a reasonable picture during the day?

I've used the VCB 3512 (12v version) here in the U.K. and it's a fairly solid camera in terms of overall performance.

[rory 0]

try a F:0.95 Lens.

 

Also, its not a very low light camera, especially for BW, but then thats why its cheap

 

However, it should see fine at night time, in fairly lit up areas, to dim areas. I have plently 0.1 lux cameras out there, but they dont compare to a 0.01 lux Exview. Sanyo has some good cameras though, I use them in a couple day/night apps.

[Tim 0]

Tim

What lens are you using (auto iris? type?), what are you looking at, and what lighting is available at night. Are you getting a reasonable picture during the day?

I've used the VCB 3512 (12v version) here in the U.K. and it's a fairly solid camera in terms of overall performance.

 

My lens is a computar VARI FOCAL 2x3.5 ~ 8.0 mm F1.4 for a 1/3 " format camera auto iris. I'm using IR led's for lighting. I'm getting a great picture during the day. I'm looking down my driveway

[Tim 0]

try a F:0.95 Lens.

 

Also, its not a very low light camera, especially for BW, but then thats why its cheap

 

However, it should see fine at night time, in fairly lit up areas, to dim areas. I have plently 0.1 lux cameras out there, but they dont compare to a 0.01 lux Exview. Sanyo has some good cameras though, I use them in a couple day/night apps.

 

It states 0.07 lux with F 1.2 and 0.09 lux with F 1.4 in the specs I have now. You say try F0.095 lens, will this work for me?

[Cooperman 0]

I don't really know the lens you're using, I've always stuck to Cosmicar / Pentax myself, but if you are getting away with using a 1/3" varifocal on a 1/2" camera, without the corners of the picture gone awol, then lady luck is really starting to smile on you.

Rory is absolutely correct that an f0.95 will increase sensitivity slightly, but as you've already said, the quoted sensitivity figures aren't exactly embarassing for your unit.

I haven't used a VCB 3512 for quite a while, simply because when I first bench tested it against the 1/3" VCB 3372 (24v is VCB 3374), I actually found the lower performance 1/3" camera to produce a slightly more pleasing image than the significantly more expensive 1/2", under very low light conditions.

The fact that you are getting a very nice image during the day, seems to point towards improving the lighting on the driveway, rather than spending a lot on trying to uprate the cameras performance.

 

What IR illuminator are you using (bulb, LED, wattage, 830nM?), and how long is the driveway?

[Tim 0]

I don't really know the lens you're using, I've always stuck to Cosmicar / Pentax myself, but if you are getting away with using a 1/3" varifocal on a 1/2" camera, without the corners of the picture gone awol, then lady luck is really starting to smile on you.

Rory is absolutely correct that an f0.95 will increase sensitivity slightly, but as you've already said, the quoted sensitivity figures aren't exactly embarassing for your unit.

I haven't used a VCB 3512 for quite a while, simply because when I first bench tested it against the 1/3" VCB 3372 (24v is VCB 3374), I actually found the lower performance 1/3" camera to produce a slightly more pleasing image than the significantly more expensive 1/2", under very low light conditions.

The fact that you are getting a very nice image during the day, seems to point towards improving the lighting on the driveway, rather than spending a lot on trying to uprate the cameras performance.

 

What IR illuminator are you using (bulb, LED, wattage, 830nM?), and how long is the driveway?

 

I'm using 120 + leds total current draw 1.2 amps with 12vdc power supply, 920 nM led, Heres a link to the LED I'm using http://www.andale.com/stores/sf_itemHome.jsp?foo=bar&sid=132121&cid=8103641&lid=48858267&mode=1&catId=1168740&parentCatId=

driveway is 25 ft long. THANKS

[rory 0]

Only certain cameras will work with 920nm as it depends on the cameras spectral response. 840nm is recommended unless you are certain the IR will work with the selected camera.

 

Rory

[Cooperman 0]

Looks like Rory has hit the nail on the head.

 

As far as I can recall, the chip in the 3512 / 3524 is very poor for any frequencies above 850nM; I think the spectral sensitivity was something like 10% ish.

Sanyo actually introduced the VCB 3574IRP as a highly Infra Red sensitive equivalent to the 3524, but that doesn't help with this problem.

The bottom line is the IR illuminator is not really the correct one for the camera. So, either change your lighting or .... no, just the lighting.

 

The driveway is fairly short, so could you consider using very low level visible light? PIR activated? If you have to change the IR unit, go for something below 850nM.

[Tim 0]

940 nm LED's are totally invisible to the eye. The 840's die glows a dim red when powered, visible in the dark if you are within 10 or 15 feet, thats why I went with 920 nm. No heat very very low current and low voltage. I'm going to be looking into Sanyo's IR camera and a better lens. THANKS EVERYBODY

[Cooperman 0]

The 940's are almost (but not quite) invisible to the camera as well!

Just a couple of final points.

 

The frequency output quoted for IR sources, actually spreads above and below the quoted figure; so for example the 840nM you mentioned, may actually output light between 790 and 880nM. It would then be the lower frequencies that are 'visible'. IR LEDS have a much tighter emission than bulb based illuminators.

 

On balance, if you can try out the 3574 IR camera (seems to have around 30% response at 950nM, 50% at 850nM, with a 0.02 lux rating @ f1.2), you'd probably be happy with it.

Only thing I might suggest though, is see if you can use a fixed focal length lens (perhaps [for example], a 6mm 1/2"), rather than a varifocal. It'll generally produce a better quality image.

Best of luck.

[rory 0]

http://www.sanyo.com/industrial/security/cameras/special/index.cfm?productID=147

 

Im using this camera, its color in day, with a mechanical switch over to BW at night, with an ExtremeCCTV.com UF500 840nm IR Bulb, and it works great. I have a 12 mm auto iris lens on it. Proper Direction of the LED makes a huge difference also. In this picture it is not as good a it can be. I dont have any clips of when I DID have both 2 of the Bulbs positioned properly (cleaning staff moved it and 1 bulb 3 years later went dead), but thanks to a new IR job coming up, using multiple of these IR Bulbs, I will definately have a few, looking up 200' streets. This driveway is around 150'+. The IR Bulbs are supposed to do 500', when positioned properly.

 

This is with one of the Bulbs, I just got a second, but I have no clips right now. it uses the Extreme Housing also, with a dual mount for the 2 bulbs and the housing. I originally used an extreme camera but it got fried so went with the Sanyo.

 

Bascially the client has been away for a month. The IR bulb needs to be moved slightly up so to get the glow off of the ground, that will give a further distance. Though it is not such a deal, as they are seeing what they need to in this instance. These are 10 degree bulbs, they come in 60, 30, 10, and spot. 30 or 60 would give a much wider IR view.

Edited October 6, 2005 by Guest

[Cooperman 0]

Nice pictures Rory,

What price does the camera sell at locally and in the States? It's currently around the £ 300 mark (equivalent US$ 500) in the U.K.

[rory 0]

in the US around $350 dealer.

 

Thats why Im considering using all the Sanyo Day Night cameras and fixed domes instead of GE's and others, they are simply cheaper, and do a good job. Ive used the Sanyo Day/Night vandal resistant dome also, works good, not as neat looking as the GE's but if it works and is $100+ cheaper, its worth it.

Im still carrying GE's other cameras, like color & BW exviews, wide dynamic, etc. I have to look and see if Sanyo has a cheaper Wide Dynamic, not sure.

 

Rory

[Tim 0]

Hey rory,

Nice pictures indeed, I like that, maybe I will spend a little more and go that way. GREAT PICTURES

[Cooperman 0]

Rory,

That price differential is a bit of a shocker; maybe we all look like mugs on this side of the pond! You don't have to answer that!!

Having said that, it's still a nice camera (I've got a bit of a soft spot for Sanyo gear). I'm not aware of them having launched a Wide Dynamic yet, but I suppose it's just a matter of time.

The only technical problem I used to come across with Sanyo, was the lack of any short circuit protection on the 12v DC models. Power Supply boards are quite expensive to replace, so I tried to always fit a diode to prevent any damage, resulting from the power supply cable being accidentally damaged.

I've no experience of the GE gear, as they are not a major player in the UK.

[Cooperman 0]

Tim,

If you do go for the Day / NIght camera, make sure you check on the IR spectral sensitivity performance before you buy it; otherwise, it may not be any more sensitive with the 940nM illuminator, than your existing camera.

You'll probably need to go to Sanyo's technical support for the information.

[rory 0]

dont worry, with shipping and duty, it ends up costing me landed in Nassau approx $500.

[Tim 0]

Cooperman & rory,

I think I will go with this one here , says it responses to 1050 nm http://www.sanyo.com/industrial/security/cameras/special/downloads/VCB-3574IR_prod.pdf

 

These are the LED's I'm using boards I have been using http://dalewheat.com/ir.php#Kits

 

This is were I'm getting my LED's 100 for $25.00 for 920nm http://www.andale.com/stores/sf_itemHome.jsp?foo=bar&sid=132121&cid=8103641&lid=48858267&mode=1&catId=1168740&parentCatId=

 

I have made 4 of these, I mounted them in a emergency light all four together only draw 1.2 amps at 12vdc I leave them on 24/7 with no problems.

 

You people are great, thanks for your time, Tim

Edited August 14, 2004 by Guest

[rory 0]

Yes that camera will work with 940nm

 

About the LEDs, you are building it yourself?

 

Are you going to use a Photocell to control them turning on and off? If not they will burn out pretty quick, well, at least not as long as with a control. Most IR cameras turn them on and off depending on the amount of light in the image, or IR bulbs can use photo cells or their power supplies have them. I guess this is a much less expensive way to go, let us know if it works. It seems this is more of a spot light, then a wide degree of light. EG, when you buy IR Bulbs/LEDs from Extreme CCTV, they have 60, 30, 10 degree, and Spot. Spot being the thinner furthest IR, to 60 degree being a 60 degree angle of wide IR. I see they have a NIGHTFLOOD version also though, which would be wide.

 

Let us know and show us some pictures when your done

 

Rory

[Tim 0]

rory,

These are LED's they are used in stop lights green and red everywhere, they do not burn out. Look very closely at the stop light next time your sitting at one, your can see the LED's LED's last for a very very long time, if you ever have one quit they are easy to fix and do not consume much power I leave them on 24/7 right now with no problems.

 

HERES a picture of what I mounted them in http://home.earthlink.net/~midwestmeteor/IR.htm

Edited August 14, 2004 by Guest

[rory 0]

when i say burn out, i mean if their normal life is 10 years, then if left on 24/7, they will last you maybe 5 years if that. Individual LEDs can also burn out quciker than the others on the board.

 

I have used IR LEDs and have had some burn out after 3 years, others lasting longer, and these are on photo cells.

 

Basically, yes, LEDs do burn out after a while, especially if left on 24/7. They are like any other bulb, but last much longer.

 

Rory

[rory 0]

rory,

These are LED's they are used in stop lights green and red everywhere, they do not burn out. Look very closely at the stop light next time your sitting at one, your can see the LED's LED's last for a very very long time, if you ever have one quit they are easy to fix and do not consume much power I leave them on 24/7 right now with no problems.

 

HERES a picture of what I mounted them in http://home.earthlink.net/~midwestmeteor/IR.htm

 

Cool, is that a motor bike lamp fixture? Looks like it will fit well. I may have to look into doing some of this myself, looks interesting

[Tim 0]

rory,

Do you have any IR lights that are not working sitting around, I would like to buy anything you got.

 

The lighting fixture I mounted these in are used in emergency lights you see all over the place in stores hanging around the exit signs