Home CCTV law in the UK?

[callme jock 0]

Yesterday, I took a quick snap-shot from my CCTV camera of a High School pupil who was blatantly standing in front of our house with a camera pointing it straight into our front windows, he was obviously in the act of taking photographs to try and prove some kind of point, because he had spotted the new PTZ dome camera on the apex of my house.

 

When I went to the window he gave me the 'V' sign and went away. This morning I confronted him on his way to school and he ignored me. So, like the fine upstanding citizen that I am, I took the evidence to my local Police Station and explained to them that I wasn't happy about this youth pointing a camera towards my windows and taking photgraphs.

 

The camera was installed recently because of trouble we have had from youths who pass our property on their way to and from school. It has had the desired effect as our windows are no longer being struck with stones and various missiles, which were all reported to the police.

 

Later this morning the police arrived at my front door, they proceeded to tell me that apart from this jerk taking photos of my house, they had received a complaint within the last 24 hours from one of my nearby neighbours that they were not happy with my new PTZ dome camera as it was an invasion of their privacy. I have only one neighbour next door to me, as I am on the corner, they had informed me they were quite happy with the cameras. The other neighbour lives on opposite side of the street, I presume it is them who have reported my cameras, although they always appear to be friendly. The police wouldn't disclose who they were but said they had lived here for years and didn't see any requirement for CCTV in this area. It's not their house that's being targeted so they don't care. Anyone with average eyesight can see where the camera is pointing as it has a clear cover and they would soon know if I was peering in their windows all they have to do is look at it, they should be so lucky!

 

The police began to tell me of the various acts which cover CCTV (they were telling me stuff I already new, fore-warned is fore-armed) and said CCTV must be authorised and confirmed by the proper authorities, but only for commercial purposes, the act doesn't cover domestic CCTV and because of this, they couldn't force me to take my cameras down, this would be up to me. the police also remarked that my camera was O.T.T. for this kind of residential area. I told the police if I wanted to spy on them I could stand inside my window with a 200x zoom lens and look into peoples houses and they would never know. I also have a CCTV warning sign on display for all to see.

 

I am concerned about this neighbour as the Police said that they would raise a civilian action to have the camera removed if I didn't take it down. They have refused an invitation from the police to come and view the monitor, which they had recommended, and I was willing to co-operate with this.

 

I am always very careful where the camera is pointing and never move it towards any residential property, the camera is either focused on our driveway or front garden area. I am concerned if I have to take the camera down, the stone throwing will return.

 

If my neighbours do go ahead and raise a civilian action, wouldn't they have to prove it was an invasion of their privacy and have evidence that I was spying on them? (Guilty complex I would say).

 

Oh! one other thing the Police warned me never to have the camera looking onto the pavement/walkway or at the street in front of my house, they said: it is a public area, always ensure the camera is kept on my property only. What about someone throwing a stone at my window from out there on the street, am I not allowed to PTZ the camera towards them so it can be used in evidence?

 

Your knowledge in reply to this subject would be appreciated, you have been of great help in the past.

[survtech 0]

Many PTZ's have what is called "zone blanking" where you can program them not to show video when panned/tilted to certain areas. Would that solve your problem?

 

I don't know about the UK, but in the U.S. the streets and sidewalks appear to be fair game. The thinking is that people have no right to expect privacy in a public place.

 

What the police told you seems to be contrary to both that concept and to the fact that many cities in the UK have cameras installed and monitored by the police themselves in the name of crime detection and prevention.

[callme jock 0]

Thanks for your reply, it just cost me big bucks to purchase and install this camera, so i aint moving it until I get a legal order to do so. I already have two static cameras in place, the ptz dome was an addition with superior capabilities to the static cameras. Can't see how they can say i'm spying on them when i aint, I have no earthly reason to do so and anyway spying on neighbours is not my aim. The Police can't do nothing anyway, so screw them!

[rory 0]

Just ignore them. Hopefully they will loose interest.

 

As for cameras that view the road, they gotta be joking!

[callme jock 0]

Thanks Rory,

 

I think the best course of action is 'do nothing'.

 

I would feel better about the situation if I knew who it was who reported the camera, kinda leaves you wondering... who is it? I would rather they come out into the open, at least then, it could be discussed as I have nothing to hide or feel guilty about.

 

Some old dogs just like to have a bark now and then... the bark is probably worse than the bite.

 

Should the problem escalate, I could always zone blank them as 'survtech' mentioned, but don't have the facilty, I suppose opaque tape could be applied to the inner side of the glass, that should work... what do you think?

[CollinR 0]

Should the problem escalate, I could always zone blank them as 'survtech' mentioned, but don't have the facilty, I suppose opaque tape could be applied to the inner side of the glass, that should work... what do you think?

 

Thats what I was going to suggest, make it so they can see that the camera can't see onto their PRIVATE property. As for the street... Oh well.

 

If the cops were right... Then it's illegal for tourists to walk down the public streets with a camera. I'm pretty sure thats not how it is.

[kensplace 0]

Actually, the police got it wrong yet again....

 

If your camera has is capable of being moved/zoomed etc remotely, which a PTZ camera obviously is, then you fall under tha Data Protection Act, and would technically have to register your camera, comply with the scheme, and pay the fees.... Normal domestic cctv usually is exempt, but PTZ's are not... at least as far as I understand what I have read,

 

Ludicrous isnt it...

 

see

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/cctv_system_and_data_protection_act_-_when_the_act_applies.pdf

 

for a bit more of a explanation.

 

You definately cant have your camera pointing at anyone elses property (ie windows, paths etc) as that would be an invasion of their privacy.

 

As for the roads, I would assume you dont have any reasonable expectation of privacy in this area, PLUS I am sure a good lawyer would be

able to make something out of the following judgement

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/showbiz/2939471.stm

where it clearly states there is 'no law of privacy'

 

If you were pointing them at the road side to 'spy' on someone, or to gain information about someone in particulars movements, then that would be wrong, but if they are just recording a crime as it happens, then I would love to hear the police explain why capturing a crime as it happens on cctv is illegal. But Im not a lawyer, so if needbe get legal advice as it could fall under human rights laws etc.

[callme jock 0]

Hi Guys, essentially my cameras are there because in the past it was almost impossible to gather essential evidence to bring before the cops. Have you tried to describe someone! (especially a hoodie), it is very difficult to be accurate without a photograph. Most of the time we weren't around anyway when any incident happened.

 

So, I decided because my property was being damaged by malicious louts, CCTV would provide the evidence I required. It is doing the job for me by keeping watch when I ain't here. It's not looking at anyone's property and only records with motion detection. Hence, the reason it was viewing the kerbside and the roadway at the side and front of my house. This is probably why my neighbours think it is pointing at them, but according to the police when asked to view the images they refused. Still don't know who they are as I get a cheery good morning and a smile from them and not a hint of malice.

 

There still doesn't appear to be enough pointers to clearly define that a PTZ for domestic use has to be licensed or is covered by the Data Protection Act.

 

My cameras are going back onto viewing the kerbside and roadway, because unless I do this, the camera will only pick out the missile and not the culprit who's doing the damage. The cameras will remain focused in that area until the appropriate bodies tells me otherwise. My night camera shows up the area like daytime... so no problem sleeping folks.

 

I'm also making the cops job easier to apprehend the criminals and prevent further damage. One last point... they take away my cameras and the pick axe handle comes out.

 

Extract taken from the ICO website:

 

Q: My neighbour has CCTV cameras overlooking my property. Is this in breach of the Data Protection Act?

 

If your neighbour is a private individual e.g. the cameras are on their residential property, it is unlikely that they will be breaching the Data Protection Act because there is an exemption for domestic/household processing of personal data as long as this does not involve putting personal information on a website or otherwise disclosing it to the world at large without good reason. They may however be breaching other legislation, such as the law about harassment or voyeurism, and so may be referred to another body such as the police to investigate.

[zmxtech 0]

had the same thing,

put a small cam above my door in a condo complex and got told off.

told them to bugger off -they lost interest.

then the house next door got robbed guess who came knocking

the complainers !

 

PTZ might be just to big and obvious -small discreet is the go

 

the police will call -oh did you get that perp running past blah blah....

 

z

[keeps 0]

Stick to your guns Jock!

 

If your CCTV sign lets people in the public area (i.e. on the pavement) know that there is CCTV in operation then you should be fine.

[callme jock 0]

Thanks, I am.

 

I've heard nothing else about it so far.

 

I think some people just like to rattle their cage now and then.

 

PTZ is a bit in your face size wise, but then it also let's the clown's see they are being watched and you mean business.

 

We will have over 170,000 golf fans visiting here soon for the British Open Championship in Carnoustie, Scotland, it won't pass without the usual incidents, although on average the majority are well behaved.

[Scruit 0]

I like the opaque tape idea, as long as it won't damage the dome.

 

If you know which house it is then you might want to do the tape thing then pan the camera up towards their house to prove that the tape is screening their property. Then print out that image and have it ready to hand to the next official who comes asking about it. In fact you could have images from all of your cameras printed out and ready to hand to anyone who asks questions about where they are pointed. The neighbor may have declined to come and see the monitor as a way of avoiding confrontation - but if they were to get their hands on an image from the camera that proves their property if not visible then (if they are reasonable people) they should not have any problem.

 

Dunno about your area, but around here if my neighbors had a problem then I'd just go talk to them. I told my next door neighbor when I installed my cameras because it one of the cameras caught the very end of his driveway (albeit 300' away) and he was fine with that.