biometrica

[ayalas 0]

Hello,has anyone try out biometrica Facial Recognition Software???

we at a casino in puerto rico are looking into this software and i would like some feed back on it if any one has it or knows anything about it or any other Facial Recognition Software that we can look into.Thanks for your help.

[scorpion 0]

I have never worked with that software.

 

I am not familiar with anyother facial recognition software.

 

There is a facial recognition system called Bio Bouncer.

 

www.biobouncer.com They provide the camera, software, and the recording equipment as a system.

[survtech 0]

Facial recognition is a hit-or-miss (mostly miss) proposition. This is especially true in a casino where it is difficult to get a face shot from directly in front of the subject. Usually the angles are poor (cameras in high ceilings, etc.) and there are often lighting problems (backlighting or very dark areas).

 

Accurate facial recognition requires that the subject be at the same angle to and approximate distance from the camera, with similar lighting, etc. as the original image was taken and looking directly at the camera. This is nearly impossible unless you can totally control the subject's location, like in a waiting line or a narrow doorway.

 

Also, the wearing of sunglasses or anything else that prevents the camera from measuring the distance between the pupils of the eyes will prevent facial recognition software from working.

 

We have been looking at this field for years and have come to the conclusion that it is not a viable technology at this time.

 

That said, the Biometrica databases and SIN are worthwhile for casinos.

[ayalas 0]

wow. survtech you got a point on that one it is almost imposible for a person to stand still inside of a casino especialy if his hidden something or nervous.here is there web-page but after i just read from you guys maybe we should think about it twice. Thanks....

 

http://www.biometrica.com/visualcasino.html#frs

[G-MEN 0]

My boss wanted us to look into facial recognition as well. The only useful application in a casino environment would be the customer views at the cage windows. Then you run into your problems A. Most thieves wear pulled down baseball caps and sunglasses. B. Their head is on a swivel and they constantly look down; making it impossible to map their facial features. I agree with Survtech, the technology is a little ways off, and it is easy to defeat. I convinced my boss that facial recognition is not feasible for us at this time.

[scorpion 0]

If you placed cameras at the entry ways would that not give you the facial shot as they are coming in? This would exclude masked bandits, ect.

 

If masked bandits were to burst in, would a security team go in to action?

[ayalas 0]

as they come into the casino most of the time they are looking around to see were they want to play so you have to be quick and zoom in so the system can take a diccent picture.If masked bandits were to burst in. The surveilance department will triger alarms and not only will casino security jump into action but so will the hotel and local police.

[survtech 0]

If you placed cameras at the entry ways would that not give you the facial shot as they are coming in? This would exclude masked bandits, ect.

 

If masked bandits were to burst in, would a security team go in to action?

We tried that.

 

The only place that had a chance was our main entrances. Unfortunately, we have wide entrance doors and a fairly dark, narrow vestibule between the inner and outer doors. That makes the backlighting a killer. We've tried every WDR camera on the market and we can't get a useable image during the day.

 

Even if we could solve the backlighting problems, our experiments have shown that we would only get useable images of a small fraction of the customers entering the casino.

 

Elsewhere, the high ceilings make the camera angles too acute to be useable.

 

Yes, masked bandits would stand out like sore thumbs, but they are not the problem - sunglasses, hats and backlighting are.

 

Megapixel cameras show some promise and we plan to experiment with them in the future but we don't have the IP infrastructure and the entrances are too far away from Surveillance to run straight CAT-5 so we will have to install a switch somewhere in between.

 

Also, our DVR system will only transcode Axis and Arecont IP cameras. If we can't record the cameras, they are useless to us.

 

But all of that is moot with the Biometrica system. It uses a Euresys Picolo frame grabber card to capture analog video. The capture must be manually triggered by an operator. It will not analyze streaming video, either analog or digital. Even when an operator is using the system, he/she must watch the subject live until they are facing the camera, then initiate a capture. This is somewhat useful at table games but totally useless at entrances.

[scorpion 0]

I have the same problem with what I call gift card casinos. We actually had an owner build a floor planter with a lattice backing in front of the door, (on the outside). Flowering vines were put into the planter.

 

Made a big difference for the camera!

 

Why can't I find more level headed customers like him?

[ayalas 0]

Well at our front entrance the closes cam is about 25 feet away in the ceilling.Now in the cage area we do have lower cams ill say about 6 feet or just behind the cashiers.But they are fix cams with fix lens.So we cant take a close-up.Where it would be helpfull it would be in the tables to indentified card counters and cheats but again the ptz are too high and as you zoom in the picture comes in an angal.If it was up to me i would put a ptz right on the pit eye level with the tables.But then again the supervisors would get in the way of its view. I guess it would take a little more investing for this to work.

[scorpion 0]

I wonder if game table manufactures can put hidden cams along the interior edge looking towards the center of the table?

 

Nice fantasy huh?

[ayalas 0]

nice but mucho dinero.

[kao 0]

I have the ultimate solution for casinos concerning cameras and capturing faces:

 

Put a mobile, wireless, covert camera on every dealer, cage person, and ****tail waitress. The camera can be in a pair of glasses, hat or headband...or possibly built into their attire at collar or shoulder level.

 

Now any GOOD software should have a wealth of video data to call upon when making a recognition database.

 

Now there would have to be a way of disabling the camera when the employee went to the restroom!

[scorpion 0]

OOOOOOOOh! I'm telling! You said a bad word!

 

 

 

 

 

WIRELESS!

 

Let put the receivers next to the wireless linksys router so that we can use the linksys battery back up for the camera receivers!

 

 

(if you didnt get the joke read more from the forum)!

[G-MEN 0]

I wonder if game table manufactures can put hidden cams along the interior edge looking towards the center of the table?

We have that. There is a camera located under the rail at each seat. After the bets are placed and before the hand is dealt the dealer presses a button on the table taking a snapshot of the player's bet. If there is a payout discrepency, the pitboss can bring up the bet amount on an LCD screen from the pit. From the overhead table cameras it is nearly impossible to determine the bet amount. You can tell the chip's value (red, green, black) but you cannot tell how many are in the stack.

[survtech 0]

I wonder if game table manufactures can put hidden cams along the interior edge looking towards the center of the table?

We have that. There is a camera located under the rail at each seat. After the bets are placed and before the hand is dealt the dealer presses a button on the table taking a snapshot of the player's bet. If there is a payout discrepency, the pitboss can bring up the bet amount on an LCD screen from the pit. From the overhead table cameras it is nearly impossible to determine the bet amount. You can tell the chip's value (red, green, black) but you cannot tell how many are in the stack.

There is another system for determining the chips in a stack that utilizes RFID devices embedded in the chips.

[scorpion 0]

Nice!

 

I am glad to see the manufactures are proactive!

[ayalas 0]

What would happend if a player drops a drink on the table and the cam gets wet or drunk and passes out.

[G-MEN 0]

We have a raised rail and the cameras are located under the rail. Our compact does not allow players to hold or touch the cards, everything is dealt face up. After the bets are placed, and the players hands are clear the picture is taken. Drinks and ashtrays are not allowed on the felt, the rail has a built in chip holder and plenty of room for drinks and ashtrays. Objects blocking the view of the cameras are not an issue. We also have software that keeps track of who the player is, how much they bought in for, and bet average.

[survtech 0]

What kind of table is that - blackjack? And the players can't touch the cards? Not the case in California, so it wouldn't work here.

[ayalas 0]

How high is the rail from the table are those the lens in the pic. And do you have a cam for each chair? Thats a lot of cams if you got it on all tables.

[scorpion 0]

How do you get the composite signal to the security center?

 

I did not know if you had raised floors where the wire runs are hidden? I did not think you would use wireless analog, but I could see you running WiFi.

[G-MEN 0]

What kind of table is that - blackjack?

 

Yes, kinda hard to play poker when you can't hold the cards and their dealt face up

 

How high is the rail from the table are those the lens in the pic. And do you have a cam for each chair?

 

The rail is about 4 inches high. 1 camera for each chair. We didn't do the work ourselves, the cardroom subbed it out. I can find out more info if you want.

 

How do you get the composite signal to the security center?

 

It is not tied into the surveillance system, it is localized in the blackjack pits. They call surveillance for reviews of everything but the bet amounts, we can't see it from overhead.

[survtech 0]

I can't believe Surveillance isn't tied into the system. Who records it, the pits?

 

The table looks like craps or roulette, not BJ.

[G-MEN 0]

I can't believe Surveillance isn't tied into the system. Who records it, the pits?

 

Yes, they are just images, no video. A review is done by the pit boss faster than they could call up surveillance. This rarely happens.

 

 

 

The table looks like craps or roulette, not BJ.

 

Arizona is a little behind in indian gaming, as far as table games go our compact only allows blackjack and poker. No craps or roulette. Blackjack was just passed in 2002. here is a different picture to show how small the raised rail is.