issues with Axis 221

[metafizx 0]

Hi folks,

 

Anyone out there have experience with Axis 221 ?

 

I got this camera hoping it would be a good choice for day/night use, giving me a reasonably clear picture. However I have run into a number of frustrating issues with it, and wonder what is wrong.

 

First of all I have a Axis 207w, which is super clear and a great camera BTW. Even though it doesnt have a CS mount, its a really nice camera with clear image.

 

I expected the 221 to have as clear an image, but it is actually kinda pixelated and has some problems with the DC Iris, and auto white balance/exposure which is causing various problems (unclear picture, and dim image). Perhaps it's not fair to expect the same, because the 207w is indoor, with a fixed focus lens. The 221 is outdoor (day/night conditions) bright sun to total darkness, and telephoto of around 12mm/ f1.4 with auto iris.

 

The problems I am having are these:

1. The image is not clear when the DC Iris closes in bright conditions. I

think it is due to the lens quality. It's not the stock Pentax, as I needed

more telephoto range (using a Xavee 6-15mm Auto Iris).

When I turn off the DC Iris, the image is clear, but I have to keep it

enabled otherwise the image goes completely white-out.

 

Perhaps I can use a manual iris lens ? The lens has to also work in IR.

Would the Computar be a better quality lens ?

 

2. Sometimes the auto white balance gets confused when the IR is on, and the image comes out dark. I am not sure if this is because the lens I am using is not really for IR, although I can see the area well under IR except for this problem that sometimes occurs.

 

My thoughts are that the auto white balance/exposure functions are getting out of whack because of the IR. Also the lens is just junk when the Iris closes, it gets all blurry. I am thinking that I should find a better IR lens. But running out of ideas...

 

Any suggestions would be welcomed. cuz I am not happy with the image quality of the 221...for $900 I am disappointed.

[chad_cooper 0]

I can give you few ideas.

 

First is picture quality starts at the lens. Junk in, Junk out. so I think you will get this point, go change that lens to computar.

 

Second, IR has a shifted focal point do to the light wave length. Focus the Camera at night or go get a #4 Neutral density lens from a welding supply shop to put over the lens to create a "night scene". I am not sure if this camera has back focus, but it should. ( you can look that up on computars site to understand how to do it). Once focus correctly it will stay in focus during low light scenes too.

 

Third, see if you can go to Manual white balance and use a priece of white paper infront of the camera when setting it.

 

A manual Iris lens is not a good idea here. IR lenses for what you are doing will work the best as the aspherical lens is MUCH better and more optically correct.

 

Hope it helps.

[rory 0]

I agree with everything Chad said, though the ND filters never worked for us down here .. good advise though ..

[chad_cooper 0]

All that ND filters do is trick the camera to open the auto Iris to the full open position by cutting down the amount of light input. You live in a place that has intense light and maybe trying a high number filter would work better. This allows you to focus on the IR spectrum more perfect, or if like working at night, just do it then.

[rory 0]

I just end up doing it indoors with the lights on dim

[metafizx 0]

thanks guys for the help.

 

I was looking at the Computar lens and wondered if it was a good one.

Sounds like it is.

 

Yeah, I am going nuts with the IR part. I will try Chad's suggestions.

 

Initially when I tested the stock setup for the Axis 221, it was a good image, but got really degraded with the xavee lens and the IR lamp.

 

thanks again !!!

[rory 0]

There will still be a focus shift though, unless you use a Day Night IR lens.

Not sure if they make lenses for these cameras or not, but check out Computar and Fujinon. Depending on the camera though you may still need to adjust the focus with the IR on full and in pitch dark. Day Night app and a Day Night with Infrared App, are 2 different things. But the cameras vary so that will make the difference in the end on how you set it up.

 

Whatever you do, a day night setup will always require day and night time adjustments to be done properly, especially when dealing with Infrared. So expect the extra work hours and if it is for a client, charge accordingly.

[metafizx 0]

thanks rory for your info.

 

since the Axis 221 has the IR Cut Filter, it seems like they intended this camera to work under IR illumination, but they have only 1 lens.

 

The pentax lens they ship apparently is not compensated for IR, so that is confusing to me. That would seem to indicate they made it work good in low light conditions, but not necessarily IR conditions.

 

If I buy a IR compensated lens, then does that mean it is optimized for IR and not normal light wavelengths ?

 

it seems that ideally you would need 2 lenses, or two independent settings, one for day and one for night to make it work perfect...right ?

 

[rory 0]

Dont know about Axis, but an IR Optimized lens is made for day and night. In the day time, we also have alot of natural infrared. Basically they just work around the focus shift issue. You can also somewhat get around that by focusing the lens off by around 10%+-, but this can take many man hours/nights to get it right. If you can get an aspherical lens (non Day Night IR Optimized) this will also be better than a typical lens, for Day Night Infrared apps.

 

Unfortunately if you want a really decent infrared camera you will need to go to a company that makes them, such as Extreme CCTV. Everything else will be WYSIWYG.

 

Also, the best Infrared Day Night setup is where there are 2 separate cameras; no Optimized lens or IR Cut Filter can give you the same results as a separate Color camera for day time and a seperate BW camera for nighttime. Extreme CCTV makes these, but they are ofcourse CCTV cameras, not IP, though you can also get versions of them that work with IP. Arcont (spelling?) has a version of this also, and they are IP cameras.

 

Also, if you can force the camera to switch to BW mode, do that when focusing so it is being focused in that mode. This ofcourse depends on the camera itself, but the added chroma it seems degrades the quality somewhat, and hence in BW mode you are focusing it to the fullest. In other words if you focus in color mode, when it switches to BW mode it will not always be as focused as it could be.

 

Although not related to IP, see this for links to threads on Day Night and Infrared apps.

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6122

 

Lastly, we ARE talking about Axis cameras, if you want higher performance for day night apps, you should check out something like the Panasonic IP cameras or Extreme CCTV.

 

Rory

[metafizx 0]

thanks rory, I will read those threads and see what I can figure out.

 

I'll post anything worth reporting...

[metafizx 0]

I reproduced 1 of the problems with IR, I suspected that there was reflected IR getting back into the camera and messing with the auto white balance.

 

I mounted a camera and turned off the lights and then angled an illuminator to get IR slightly washed into the camera lens, and it totally screwed up the image. any reflected IR will cause the camera to be "blinded". solution is easy, just get rid of the reflections.

 

The IR is reflecting off part of the roof overhang. the IR LEDs in the housing are wide dispersion, and so I am going to mount an external illuminator and that should solve that particular issue.

 

probably I can mess around with the internal illuminator and get that working too, but right now I just have to make this system work.

[metafizx 0]

update:

 

I got 2 Computar lenses, 2.8-12mm and 8.5-40mm. both are AI and IR compensated.

 

The image is much better. I think it is the best I can do with this camera and a higher res camera is required to get better quality image.

 

Perhaps I can make the camera perform better in different lighting conditions by messing around with the settings, but the problem is there really needs to be separate settings for different kinds of lighting. (the "auto" comes to mind haha) but if these cameras had manual settings for "bright" conditions and perhaps 1 or 2 other conditions, that would be great.

 

the outdoor lighting is challenging. very bright sun with moving shadows (palm trees) causes difficult scenario for the auto white balance and auto exposure. I can set the contrast and brightness low and the image is quite good, but if I leave it at that, the image is not optimal for when the lighting is off the peak of the day (morning and evening ). what works in lower light doesnt work in harsh light (bright sun).

 

if I park a car with a license plate in the view of the camera, about 40 feet away, I have trouble reading it with the camera in bright sunlight. it gets washed out easily, unless I manually set it to low contrast and brightness.

also strangely if I take off the auto Iris, it is much clearer. something I dont understand. I would think the depth of field is longer when the AI closes due to the bright conditions.

 

unless this particular camera's firmware is really not all that good with figuring out these lighting conditions (which is possible) then I am not sure what else I can do. it's pretty good, but not great.