Camera Theft

[CraigVM62 0]

This is the first time I have had to deal with this, but then I do a fraction of the installs that many do here. The business had one camera that overlooked it's entrance and front windows. This camera "box camera in EMI housing / bracket" was stolen last night.

They knew to come at the camera from behind and tossed a rope around the bracket "as the video showed". Must have hooked it to a car bumper as it was anchored well into the concrete wall. The housing was tied into the the alarm system which went off instantly.

This was attempted a few months ago, but they must have just tried to pull the camera down by hand with no results. I had tried to convince the business owner to invest in a second camera so they cross fire, with each camera being in the frame of the other. Thinking this would be a great deterrent.

 

Has anyone else here had issues with camera theft. Any suggestions to prevent this from happening again would be greatly appreciated.

[Lolo Wolf 0]

Hello, in that situation you do camera looking at camera, install the second camera covert. Very often a cam is removed or tampered with prior to tresspass or just vandalism. It is very important to let the client know that he tells no one else about the secondary cam.

[zmxtech 0]

yes I agree, another one hidden or overlooking the other.

 

Another trick is to hide the cables and add a "fake" loop of cable under a camera for the bad guys to cut. [connected to the alarm]

 

A fake easy to get to camera can be done to -if you have problems.

with pin hole cams inside looking left and right.

 

my 2c

 

z

[scorpion 0]

Hey CraigVM62

 

Sounds like you had a bad day!

 

Sorry to hear that! I am glad that the camera was part of the alarm system! I wish more installers did this in our area.

 

I never had a camera ripped from the wall. I did have someone take a pipe cutter, and cut the conduit.

 

I am still laughing about the guy who stole a camera right out of my shop!

He needed the wireless camera more than I did!

[CraigVM62 0]

I appreciate the replies.

 

My only concern about adding a concealed camera to view the existing camera location is that it does not provide a deterrent factor.

The nearest location for the second camera is around 30 feet away. I would have to find a covert camera with a higher magnification lens to provide a good clear image.

 

I guess this is one of those double edge sword problems.

 

If can install a covert camera, they may not try to hide their faces if they try to steal the main camera again. I could only hope the recorded image provides what is need to catch them and maybe get some stolen items back. There is a good chance that won't happen.

 

If I install cross firing cameras with both in clear view, they may just make it a point to hide their faces and steal both cameras.

 

Though the original mount was strong enough to easily support my weight, I will step it up a bit. I am getting a couple of Pelco HSWM12 mounts that, with bolts running clear though the wall, should be a match for the bumpers of many small cars.

[scorpion 0]

I like the idea of putting the 2nd camera back farther away, and then using a high millimeter lens to zoom back up on the 1st camera.

 

I use 220X camera to watch a CVS pharmacy from catty corner across a 4 lane intersection, and turning lanes.

 

The store is 300 feet from the camera. I can zoom in on the telephone pole on the back of the property, and I can tell you if it is a boy, or a girl squirrel!!

[CraigVM62 0]

Hey Scorp.

 

Like most of my CCTV installations, this one is somewhat budget oriented. So I can't go high tech looking for a solution. There are buildings near by "within 60 feet" but we don't have the means of getting conductors to the customers building. So both cameras will be on the same wall. Both will be viewing the desired "protected" area, and the area below the other camera.

 

This is the best idea I could come up with to keep them from tossing a rope over the camera and trying to yank it down.

 

The cabling along with alarm trip wire is routed through the bracket and exits near it's top, just below the camera. There is a small loop exposed before it goes into the camera housing.

I installed a contact switch inside the housing incase someone decided to get a tall ladder and try to open the housing to steal the camera. I came back out of the housing with a 2 conductor wire that cloths lines directly to the top of the bracket mount and is attached. If someone should decide to toss a rope and give even a slight tug. It will break that wires connection point and trigger an instant zone on the alarm. The outdoor horn and strobe is near by. With it going off, I hope they won't stick around long enough to try and continue the tug-a-war to pull the camera / housing down.

 

[501 0]

Why not use 2 good vandal proof Dome cameras (with IR's), and throw some silicon on the back when you mount them to "glue" them to the wall. They would be harder to steal and harder to tell what direction they are looking. I've had a lot of people think that "dome" cameras see 360 degrees so maybe some criminals think that too. Just a suggestion.

[rory 0]

Why not use 2 good vandal proof Dome cameras (with IR's)

 

Good Dome Cameras with IRs .. thats like a oxymoron

[scorpion 0]

How do you attach the wire that comes out of the housing, and attaches to the mount?

 

It sound like you have a "quick disconnect" connection at mount? The rope pulls the wire, and the "loop" is broken causing the alarm.

 

I like this idea! I have never thought of that!

 

Anyone have any cameras that have been shot?

[sinbad 0]

I like the idea of the alarm on the cam. pretty smart

[CraigVM62 0]

Why not use 2 good vandal proof Dome cameras (with IR's), and throw some silicon on the back when you mount them to "glue" them to the wall. They would be harder to steal and harder to tell what direction they are looking. I've had a lot of people think that "dome" cameras see 360 degrees so maybe some criminals think that too. Just a suggestion.

 

A couple of reasons. If you mount a dome camera flush to an exposed outdoor wall, you now have major issues with water beading up on the dome distorting the image. Here in the Pacific North West we get plenty of rain. If you use a wall bracket to mount a dome facing down, your right back to giving them something to toss a rope around.

 

Short of some commercial strength epoxy, I don't think glue is going to add much strength to the bracket.

 

The new brackets are made of 1/4" steel angle iron / plate. They will be attached with 3/8" bolts going clear though the concrete walls and washers / bolts in the inside. I am guessing it will take a good 1000 lbs of downward pull to take this one down with some very strong rope.

 

 

Scorp,

 

Yes, the idea came from those pull apart disconnects that some use for overhead roll up doors and gates. In this case the wire is very small 28 gage 2 conductor wire. My only fear is if a pigeon or crow doesn't notice the wire and comes in for a landing on the bracket arm ......

whistles and bells

 

I was called in to replace another companies camera that was shot at one of those commercial gas stations that don't have attendants and pumps require issued cards. I found a couple of BB's rolling around in the housing. The story was that a month before an individual came in and used his employers card to fill his own personal vehicle up with gas. They used footage from their cameras to prove what he had done and he was fired from his job. Soon after, new footage showed him walking up to one of the cameras and shooting it several times with a single pump, Daisy Red Rider type BB gun.

I replaced the broken glass window of the housing with a piece of 3/16" Daisy proof Lexan.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Guest

[rory 0]

put the camera inside an iron bar cage .. seen it done around here in the ghetto a few times. Same thing we do with our AC Wall units

[rory 0]

If you use a wall bracket to mount a dome facing down, your right back to giving them something to toss a rope around.

 

put razor blades all over the top of it .. rope goes over, they pull on rope and rope gets cut ..

[CraigVM62 0]

If you use a wall bracket to mount a dome facing down, your right back to giving them something to toss a rope around.

 

put razor blades all over the top of it .. rope goes over, they pull on rope and rope gets cut ..

 

Your starting to scare me Rory

 

Here is one for you... Last week I was visiting my Dad who lives in a little BFE town a hundred miles outside of Las Vegas. While there, a neighbor of his came over and started asking me questions. I guess my Dad told him I was coming and might be able to help him with a recent problem.

He owns a small junk yard where he has been dealing with local vandals. He was wanting to find someway to prove which of the local hoodlums was coming in at night stealing parts. A dog is not an option, and his budget eliminates any CCTV or Security System as a solution.

 

Here was my brainstorm .....:

 

I asked him if you have to walk through any rather narrow paths to get from A-B in his small junk yard. He said yes. about a 10 foot path between stacked cars.

I remember seeing that they make these wire trip land mines for paintball games. They use a small Co2 cylinder for pressure and state to cover an area of 700+ square feet.

I suggested that He try one and instead of filling it with the instructed paint ball paint fill, perhaps a stout mixture of Red Ritz dye along with something of strong odor. He loved the idea. I guess in a little community of 60 people, if someone comes home "colored funny and stinkin" it doesn't take long for everyone to hear about it

[rory 0]

Good idea

[scorpion 0]

I love that IDEA!

 

How about some pepper spray to boot?

[CraigVM62 0]

Here is a video of one of the nicer ones in action. They make one that shoots horizontally and is triggered by a trip line. Like a Claymore

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4002359331537176904&q=Paintball+Landmine&total=12&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

[Deluxecctv.com 0]

All I can say is vandal proof dome. This would fix that problem.

[CraigVM62 0]

All I can say is vandal proof dome. This would fix that problem.

 

Feel free to read earler in this thread where the problems regarding domes are addressed .... unless you know of one with built in wind shield wipers

 

Again the cameras MUST be mounted on an exterior wall in one of the rainiest states on the US.

[rory 0]

http://www.extremecctv.com/product_detail.php?product_id=191

 

 

PS. maybe get a normal vandal dome and use RAINEX and caulking to seal?

http://www.clean-image.co.uk/products/rainx.htm

[CraigVM62 0]

http://www.extremecctv.com/product_detail.php?product_id=191

 

 

 

Rory .... You truely are the "King of Links" .... I sould have known you would have come up with something. " title="Applause" />

 

I have a feeling that would surpass the budget by a few too many zerro's

but ya still got me

 

 

Also, I have tried Rain-X on some of the first domes I tried mounting on exposed walls years ago. it does help a bit, but still had customers complain about the blurry image during and right after rain storms. So now I only consider them if mounted well under eves or other cover

[rory 0]

yeah I think it will cost quite a tad more than most others ...

 

Mount the cameras where they can clean them regularly

 

But yeah domes are worst in that regard. .. so yeah I hear yah. They are actually easy to clean, but just get dirty quicker.

 

What you need to do is make your own mini wipers for vandal domes (blades that can be manually bent/adjusted per camera type) and market them

 

make them also for Bullet cams and you got a huge market right there!

[CraigVM62 0]

Rory,

 

Since I only wish I had the IQ and mechanical ability to come up with a universal wiper system for domes... This is the best I could come up with.

 

 

A simple metal mounting plate and perhaps 1" pipe cut at a 45 degree angle and welded to that plate. It would be mounted just above the dome and almost touching. I am guessing if a rope or chain was tossed over the dome wall bracket, they would just slip off ???

Maybe I could call it the "Dome Slipper"

 

 

Still, even with a dome via a bracket / wall mount, there is the problem with water that is bouncing off the wall, splattering onto the lens. The lenses within would need to be pointed running along the wall. Right where the dome lens would get much of that splatter.

 

The camera locations are around 14' off the ground so a bit higher off of the ground than the customers would want to ladder up to for cleaning.

Heck, I hate having to go that high if I don't have to.

[rory 0]

ahhh ..well cheap $50 bullet then replacing it wont bother their wallet

 

Maybe you can find a wiper system for some RC cars or planes .. hook them up with 12VDC and bend them to fit on the dome ..

 

Otherwise the Dome slipper may work ..

 

Had some people pull down bullets before, though they were captured on the other bullet cameras as they did it .. Vandal domes, not yet, though I havent put many outdoors yet, the ones I did are either ceiling mounted or near a security booth, or in areas where they have to go through many other cameras first.