Covert Camera Install

[gar32 0]

Hi all,

 

I have been given the job of putting in a 6 camera covert system. The cameras I chose to use will be Pinhole Sony cameras mounted in and looking down from a suspended ceiling. This is the only I am alowed to ut the cameras due to the nature of the room the cameras are observing ( a lab )

 

The cameras are going back to this DVR a DVR 9060 9ch 250Gb from RF concepts

 

or something very similar.

 

The customer wants to be able to observe the footage without going near the DVR so I was going to put it on a wireless LAN . Has anybody every used a wireless LAN ( Buffalo 125MBsec) to view a DVR if so what is the quality like?

 

Any ideas welcome.

[gar32 0]

I forgot to mention the reason for the wireless lan is because the management dont want to let the IT department of the company know what is going on, so I cant use there network.

 

Also does anyone have any knowledge of the DVR from RF concepts?

[photys 0]

I know people who have bought from RF Concepts for past 3 years without hassle.

 

Regarding the DVR, My only gripe with RF is they carry very few brandnamed goods.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would buy 2 of their 4 channel brandname DVR´s and view them with their CMS softwear (Central Monitoring System).

Means less cabling on the camera side, and one more cat5 / wireless access point.

Their brandname DVR has no fan so it's covert in a sense, no noise.

 

I have done 15km wireless installs, but I only use it as a last resort.

Use their false roof or existing cable conduits to get a cat5 to the directors office.

Run the DVR or DVR's into a switch and plug into a second nic card in the directors computer. Using a seperate IP subnet.

Quick and cheap local viewing.

Any IT guy would soon discover the remote traffic (internet viewing), so keep it local.

 

Please excuse the kinda choppy answer, toothace and painkillers :/

[gar32 0]

Good idea using the different subnet, to be honest I was worried about the wireless link. There is a patch panel close to where the DVR will be located above the labs but we are not allowed to use it for fear of disrupting the existing network and alerting the in house IT.

 

Thanks again.

[CollinR 0]

Wifi has been fine for me, I would sell the guy a laptop too. Then he can tell IT it is his personal laptop and they are hands off.

 

I would broadcast ID and make it something that sounds like a nothing business in close proximity. Then lock it down to his laptop and your service laptop so you can service from the parking lot after the install.

[zmxtech 0]

hiding the SSID would be the best, and use 5ghz

 

z

[scorpion 0]

I do not know what kind of cameras you are using.

 

Here are some notes I can give you.

 

I use clay to hold cone pinholes/mini's with lens cameras. This lets me get the right angle with out them tipping over. Tape will usually undo itself, and I end up loosing my camera angle.

 

I would run the cameras on a table over night, and see how hot they are the next day prior to installation. If they are buried within insullation, they may over heat, and burn out. Not right away, but you are putting some nails in its coffin, and the life span will be shorten.

 

You can mount them in A/C ducts. Make sure you tape up the hole where you puctured in to run your wires.

 

If you have to hide the DVR in the ceiling PM me, and I will give you some notes.

[SureVeillance 0]

Just so you know, any good IT department, especially in a financial institution or technology company which is concerned with intrusion detection, would detect and be able to locate a wireless lan even with SSID broadcast turned off - but I'm not sure how sophisticated the group is - and you probably don't want to say too much about the business to preserve confidentiality.

[UMDRanger 0]

What about running cat5e from the dvr to the client's office? Providing of course that there is a easy path and relatively short distance.

 

Have the cat5e from the dvr run into a wired only router located in the client's office. He can then plug his laptop into the router.

 

That way IT will be very unlikely to find it, unless they search his office for the router.

[gar32 0]

Just got confirmation of the job yesterday. Thanks all fo rthe great tips.

 

So far the plan is to put 2 Avermedia 1304 Net DVR's in the roof space and put 4 Hi res Pinholes in the suspended ceiling and 2 in the some emergency exit signs for a different angle.

I'm going to wire the DVR back to a secure office over Cat 5 instead of wireless because of a concern over the loss in video quality and a concern of an over eager IT dept.

Hopefully this will be good enough to gather evidence for them.

I like the idea of using clay to mount the cameras I'll test that. We intend to have the system fully tested before the install to avoid any hickups !!

 

 

Any more ideas or thoughts welcome!!

[photys 0]

We intend to have the system fully tested before the install

Good move. Doing this gives great confidence on-site when dealing with the inevitable issues that arise.

 

Have you done a site survey to work out your lens sizes?

[gar32 0]

We done a survey and found possible locations for the cams. We chose to use the 3.7mm "1/3" EXVIEW HAD DSP Color CCD sensor" 550TVL

We have asked for a sample of the ceiling tile as its a bit different to the normal type to get the mounting correct before we go in.

 

I reckon this lens should be enough as it will be 8-9 feet above the target where we are looking to see what he/she is doing when packing the product.

[CollinR 0]

3.7-9mm maybe but 3.7 is pretty wide, depends on what you are tring to see them do.

[gar32 0]

The camera has to be hidden as much as possible in the roof space and has to be a pinhole so I'm pretty much stuck with this type of camera.

It has to be mounted on a ceiling tile as we are not allowed to put in PIR cams etc in case the unions spot them and cause a fuss.

[CollinR 0]

You can mount them in A/C ducts. Make sure you tape up the hole where you puctured in to run your wires.

 

You might triple check that, I'm pretty sure you can't even run plenum wiring alone inside a duct much less an actual camera.

[gar32 0]

As a precaution I have ordered some mini bullet Pinhole cameras with a 9MM Lens just to have with me.

 

Thanks again.

[gar32 0]

Got the system setup on the bench here, all looks well so far, quite happy with the quality etc.

Someone mentioned using Clay to hold the pinholes in place? Is this modelling clay? Any other ideas on how to mount the pinholes, they do get a bit hot!

 

Thanks again.

[scorpion 0]

These are usually short term situations.

 

I use anything I can get my hands on. It could be child's play doh, or silly putty, or in a pinch chewing gum.

 

For long term situations, I would not know what to recommend due to environmental factors, electrical codes, etc.

 

I do not know the fire capacity of "clay" in a plenum, or an A/C duct.

 

Sometime a self tapping screw that looks like a drywall screw can be used.

 

Then there is always our trusted friend the "100 mile an hour tape" (duct tape).

 

I have used silicone sealant also, but I usually do not have the time to wait for it to dry.

______________________________________________________

For those reading this thread:

 

Play doh can be used in window frames to mount a camera for short term uses.

 

Just do not forget that the glass becomes a mirror at night, and you will be recording the interior instead.

 

IR cams in windows at night will flood itself with IR, and blind itself.

[gar32 0]

Thanks all

I have just setup 2 EB 1304 Net DVRs and can view them over the LAN and NET. I'm pretty happy with the software that comes with them but I have noticed something that I cant understand.

 

When viewing footage over the LAN you only get to view the last 16 motion recorded events ?? There is no option to search by time/event etc?

 

I have noticed that all this is available when viewing footage locally.

 

Am I missing something?

I'm under pressure as this setup has to go live this weekend and remote playback of all footage is needed!

 

Cheers

[gar32 0]

From what I can tell the solution is to be found in finding the remote storage path.

The latest manual I have doesnt seem to be exactly the same as the software version I'm using. The software seems more recent and although the manual shows me how to set it up in the RC1000 software the settings are slightly different in my version.

 

Any ideas?

[rory 0]

Dont know, but be prepared as it is their budget DVR, so it wont have as many features as the others. More features means more code which means more time and money .. hence the more expensive units

 

If you get a chance can you post some screenshots .. thanks

Looks like a decent unit for the price.

[gar32 0]

I'm fairly sure it does it, at least it does in the manual, but I cant find the equivalent setting in my version. As far as I know it will store the files locally in c:\remotedata

I cant find the settings relevent to this file location.

[photys 0]

Aww man, I cant pass up a challenge.

 

Gimme a few minutes and I will set one up and work it out for ya.

[photys 0]

Curious?

It seems to give remote access to 16 events per hour.

Best I could do was to record motion detected clips at minimum of 60 seconds each.

That only guarantees 16 minutes of remote video per hour........

 

So whats all that about "4096 events list"?

Curious.

 

Im upgrading the firmware.

[photys 0]

Ok.

After upgrading the firmware (painless process), It all appears to work well.

 

Those 16 screen dont reflect the start of 16 events.

They are simply snapshots in time.

ie, If there is one 20 second video recorded between 09.00 and 10.00 it will be split into 16 screens

If there are 50 minutes of recording, it will still be split into 16 screens.

Not a great solution, but it works.

 

View your recordings with the above in mind, if your not happy then grab the "firmware" and the "firmware update SOP" (a PDF explaining the update process)

 

http://www.avermedia.com/EN/default.aspx?TYPE=test.htm&PT=downloadD1&tv_TCAT_POS=0&CATNO0=D&IDX=2.1&CNT=1&CATNO1=D2&PID=2323N&UCN=bcb