gyung 0 Posted September 8, 2007 Hello All, Firstly, I don't know anything about DVRs other than what I have read on this forum... Our company needs a new DVR to replace a 16-Channel VHS one... I Hear people recommend DVRs by AVTech but I don't know a reliable source source to purchase them from. I understand you cannot post store names, so please PM me =) What I think we need: 16 Channels Remotely accessible through a web browser if possible 250GB HDD(?) May use a standard PC Monitor Able to simultaneously view all 16 channels is preferred Standalone or PC-Based is ok $1000~$2500 is our Budget The DVR doesn't have to be AVTech, just read about it here. Any recommendations for a easy-to-use and reliable DVR is ok. Thanks guys =) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted September 8, 2007 I have sent you a PM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VST_Man 1 Posted September 8, 2007 PC Based....Video Insight Standalone........Avermedia.....................Hybrid your HD is too small.......go minium 500Gb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DDSC2060 0 Posted September 8, 2007 Hey, Depending on the application there are a lot of questions to be asked. 1)Are you ever planning on going more than 16 cameras? 2)Do you want to take a look at a pc-based DVR or standalone? 3)Do you need real-time recording on all channels? 4)Is 250 gig going to be enough, depending on the nature of your business you may need to think about a 500 gig total for 16 channels. Since most people want real time. Using a mpeg4 dvr. You are looking at 6gig per camera per day. so 6 times 16 divided by 250 and that is how many days you can get per 250gig. PC-based tend to have a better gui, but the standalones are coming avaliable in mouse control with decent gui... When it comes to this you need to think it over and make the right choice the first time or you will spend more money in the end... I sent you a pm....hope this helps... -chad b- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCTV_Suppliers 0 Posted September 9, 2007 Hello All, Firstly, I don't know anything about DVRs other than what I have read on this forum... Our company needs a new DVR to replace a 16-Channel VHS one... I Hear people recommend DVRs by AVTech but I don't know a reliable source source to purchase them from. I understand you cannot post store names, so please PM me =) What I think we need: 16 Channels Remotely accessible through a web browser if possible 250GB HDD(?) May use a standard PC Monitor Able to simultaneously view all 16 channels is preferred Standalone or PC-Based is ok $1000~$2500 is our Budget The DVR doesn't have to be AVTech, just read about it here. Any recommendations for a easy-to-use and reliable DVR is ok. Thanks guys =) gyung, you have many options available in the world of CCTV DVRs... The easiest and the simplest systems are embedded system that do not contain basic and inherent Windows problems effecting not only the functionality of such system, but how long will it really last... Most embedded system operate from internally based flash memory and do not depend its content on hard drives... the purpose of the hard drives are nothing more than a storage device and that is all... If any of such hard drives go bad, your basic approach will be to just replace them, but your main system, including application that is running on the flash memory, will retain its integrity... Such system are cost effective and MUST COME WITH AT LEAST (3) THREE YEARS WARRANTY... anything less than such warranty period should be rendered as either poor quality (that someone just wants you to waste your money) or the company may not be there tomorrow... Every major CCTV manufacturer has an embedded system and the pricing always is more cost effective than higher end Windows, Linux, and system based on other operating systems (I guess not paying Bill Gates and peope like him will keep your equipment cost lower)... The only drawback for such systems is its upgradablity.. very rare that you need to update or upgrade either the OS that it is based on or the application... which is a good thing for most, as they work right out of the box and do not require constant maintenance on software, drivers, etc.. Common systems that I will recommend are from CBC (3 years warranty), Mitsubishi (5 years warranty), American Dynamics (3) years warranty EDVR series, Sanyo (3) years warranty and few others... These companies have been around too long and they are major performers for our industry and the quality always top class and that is why anyone can invest in their hardware without any worry... warranty varies between 3 years to 5 years (in case of Mitsubishi)... If you have specific requirements, then we can recommend a very specific model from a specific manufacturer, otherwise, anyone of them will perform... I will suggest to shop and purchase anyone of such DVRs from a reputable reseller, so that at least you will have the support first hand... Just in case, you will also have such support from the Manufacturer directly - just keep your receipts and who or where you bought it... and most will honor such warranty... Price range that you are estimating is very reasonable and it does cover the actual pricing of over 90% of the Embedded models that are available from above manufacturers... At least my two cents on the topic... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DDSC2060 0 Posted September 9, 2007 Man that is not true, just b/c a company offers a one year warrenty with option to purchase an extended warrenty does not mean that the product is low quality. It is all the same man. I have been selling discount security cctv systems for over three years when they were more expensive and I worked for ADT Tyco for 4 years. Low price does not mean poor quality. These manufactures get good price because they buy in bigger bulk. You need to learn the business before giving someone bad advice. In the end it is still going to be how much you buy from someone and that relationship you have with them for years that dictate the price of a system. Besides people are getting tired of the monitoring as the only means of security and as that demand grows the supply will be there and prices are cheaper. I have a high ranking website on google (although I cannot link it in this forum) we have been selling post 9/11 and we do just fine. Sorry to sound mad, but comments like that I really take offense to. Not every company out there is bad, although I have heard horror stories. Just keep it simple, these embeddeds are becoming just as good as Pc based dvrs and more stable. Not having to deal with that operating system is great and most of the new embeddeds are coming avaliable with mouse control for more user-friendly gui. Just look for the real-time recording on all channels, and the playback resolution, one-two year warrenty, and free tech support. Laters -chad b- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCTV_Suppliers 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Man that is not true, just b/c a company offers a one year warrenty with option to purchase an extended warrenty does not mean that the product is low quality. Where does my comments above make any notation for "extended warranty" or anything of that nature? I think you should read very carefully what the comments are before responding... If anything, every manufacturer that I referred, offers these DVRs with full 3 years warranty... and nothing to do with "extended warranty" It is all the same man. My friend, it is not all the same... If you are comparing major manufacturer products with offshore crap, then you have some serious learning that you should consider... You are trying to compare apples to oranges... I have been selling discount security cctv systems for over three years when they were more expensive and I worked for ADT Tyco for 4 years. Low price does not mean poor quality. We are very happy that you worked for this company, but do not ever underestimate who your audiences are... I am sure there are people in this forum that have more experience than probably your age, so when you are mentioning your credential, be very polite and always think what you say... These manufactures get good price because they buy in bigger bulk. Sorry my friend, they do not.... These manufacturers realized that by pushing high end product, they are missing the boat (most of them did) on lower end products for most users... Therefore, each and everyone of the came up with newer line of low end product without sacrificing quality and they back their products with FULL 3 YEARS WARRANTY! You need to learn the business before giving someone bad advice. In the end it is still going to be how much you buy from someone and that relationship you have with them for years that dictate the price of a system. You are totally wrong my friend... relationships do go far, but for new business, specially for larger masses, the price dictates what they do and how they buy... Relationships do matter, but are you going to build a relationship with someone who purchases one DVR for his or her store or home or from what I can understand from your comments, that you may have very large customers that you may be referring to.. Grow up my friend and smell the roses... majority of the industry is not based on major customer or end users, rather home owners, small mom and pop operators etc.. who need the help for such basic and cost effective systems... Besides people are getting tired of the monitoring as the only means of security and as that demand grows the supply will be there and prices are cheaper. I have a high ranking website on google (although I cannot link it in this forum) we have been selling post 9/11 and we do just fine. Sorry to sound mad, but comments like that I really take offense to. Not every company out there is bad, although I have heard horror stories. We are very happy that you have a high ranking website and that you are doing well. Just because you have them does not consitute that you have a full knowledge on what you are talking about. Remember my friend, being polite and calm does address your comments much more clear rather your style of writing. You also contradict on your statement above... Just keep it simple, these embeddeds are becoming just as good as Pc based dvrs and more stable. Not having to deal with that operating system is great and most of the new embeddeds are coming avaliable with mouse control for more user-friendly gui. Just look for the real-time recording on all channels, and the playback resolution, one-two year warrenty, and free tech support. Laters I reserve the right to confirm my statement about the warranty - ANY DVR, EMBEDDED OR NOT, THAT COMES WITH LESS THAN THREE (3) YEARS WARRANTY SHOULD RAISE QUESTIONS IN THE END USERS MIND EITHER IT IS NOT A DECENT SYSTEM OR THE SELLERS/PRODUCERS ARE FLY-BY-NIGHT OPERATORS -chad b- wow, I must of hit a nerve by having my first post and that is great:D ... someone is actually trying tell someone else to learn a business before giving an advise when such person can not justify his or her position... With your credentials working for ADT/Tyco/Sensormatic already does tell me a lot and I will not go to further on this as it shows level of knowledge... Please find above an answer to each and every comment that you made and please do not accuse anyone because of your limitation of knowledge in CCTV business and specially the DVRs... Good luck to you my friend and hope that eventually you will learn how to conduct business or address comments... It is called EXPERIENCE.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DDSC2060 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Umm no I was a resale rep at the nmc and downline-load tech. I re-activated existing alarm systems and sold contracts for people they needed to have monitoring. I actually never did the "dog" sales you want to get into and that is why I am also not working for that company anymore (God that was years ago) and that is where I got my feet wet. I just want to make it clear that compaines that sell discount price does not mean cheap or a rip off. I think any "common sense" person would know what or who not to buy from. -chad b- I mean what did you expect to say that and make such a stero-type about discount solution providers without expecting heat, c'mon man..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gyung 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Haha thanks guys =) The info was helpful... I think we will just keep looking for now, and thanks for the advise - I'll keep it in mind! And it's always good to hear both sides of the story, it's so much more useful. It seems the big-brand ones might be the best choice for now - you're right that they won't be gone tomorrow. Even if it's just the name, it's a little more comforting to know that they will try to keep making money off us Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCTV_Suppliers 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Umm no I was a resale rep at the nmc and downline-load tech. I re-activated existing alarm systems and sold contracts for people they needed to have monitoring. I actually never did the "dog" sales you want to get into and that is why I am also not working for that company anymore (God that was years ago) and that is where I got my feet wet. I just want to make it clear that compaines that sell discount price does not mean cheap or a rip off. I think any "common sense" person would know what or who not to buy from. -chad b- I mean what did you expect to say that and make such a stero-type about discount solution providers without expecting heat, c'mon man..... Chad, you points are misleading.. first you say one thing and then change the story... Majority of end users, including myself, have been effected by such companies that have no mercy what so ever... and they will sell whatever they have without any remorse... At the end, end users hold the bag and that is why I state that when someone offers full (3) years warranty and is a major CCTV manufacturer, you have nothing to fear and can proceed without any problems... Where do you find or see any of the stereo type of response in my comments, my friend?... My observation is based on simple facts about the embedded systems - they are very simple to setup, cost effective and yet functional, thus you may not be getting all the bell and whistles that GEO based or other Windows based systems may provide, you do get however solid performers... and with warranty that is unquestionable... I am not by no means or shape trying to underestimate your position, rather having you to see areas that you may have not been exposed.. I can give you at least a dozen makes and models of such systems from major manufacturers that will conform not only what gyung requested (price, functionality, etc.) but also can put you directly in touch with such manufacturers who I am sure will confirm my statements... So, do you want this information or not? Can you produce any information from your end that can challenge my observations above? Can you meet or beat any of the criteria that I have described which I can back it up 100%? Can you produce any makes and models that will give you basic embedded system that gyung has asked and with 3 years warranty?? I challenge you to do it and then we will see who is in the right track and who is not... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DDSC2060 0 Posted September 12, 2007 Yo CCTV supplier....I am very busy. I am writing this from my i-phone. But when I get back to my office, I will duke this battle out. All will see my rational. Cannot player hate on me for being a total ass. I am reasonable with my feelings on the matter, just no time right now. I have to go....More to come on this topic. Laters -chad b- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCTV_Suppliers 0 Posted September 12, 2007 DDSC2060, I look forward to it my friend... Anytime and any place, as long as you can come back with facts and not a fiction... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted September 13, 2007 http://www.analog.com/processors/blackfin/overview/blackfinCoreBasics.html ICrealtime Pro series DVR Rack mountable in a server room! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 13, 2007 for that budget, you can either get a stand alone, mid range, or if you can support the PC based, a decent PC based system. The PC based system, at least in most cases, will give you many more features. BUT, you need to get a decent PC and set up the OS and software properly (or buy one setup already), otherwise stick with a stand alone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CollinR 0 Posted September 13, 2007 I currently only provide 2 years however... I do provide remote config, remote training and remote troubleshooting (including client systems) for the full 2 years. Thats something you can't get in any dedicated system I have seen. I'm also not in the budget though. I do think your budget is reasonable, and if you requirements are low enough you can get something on the bottom end. If your requirements are very high you'll probably need another $500-1000 depending on what functions are required. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daryl733 0 Posted September 13, 2007 Such system are cost effective and MUST COME WITH AT LEAST (3) THREE YEARS WARRANTY... anything less than such warranty period should be rendered as either poor quality (that someone just wants you to waste your money) or the company may not be there tomorrow... Not going to debate your other pts, but think what u say about warranty is not quite valid. It depends on each market and industry standard for warranty. Long warranty doesn't mean it is better product as well. Over here, seagate harddisk give 5 years warranty, hitachi, maxtor, wd give 3. I've done more seagate harddisk replacement than other brand. So longer warranty = better products ? I begged to differ. Nowadays, most product give just 1 year warranty. E.g. all your electronics basically give just 1 yr, sony, panasonic, toshiba, etc. So are they render as poor quality ? It depends on the local market and industry practise. Not so much on the quality of product. E.g.Some product give 3 years warranty, but basically is abt 3-5 times more expensive than those tat give 1 year warranty. Does it make them a better product ? Basically, i would like to think, the cost of replacement/repaired had been factored into the price already. Sometimes.. if it's not hard to replace.. it's better to get those 1 year warranty devices at 1/3 or 1/5 the price of those 3 years warranty one.. and get them replaced every year or so. Even good quality equipments come with wear and tear. Good cameras will get dirty, oily, greasly, dusty. Same as good quality DVRs, harddisk. Replacing them at 1/3 the cost every year before the MTBF IMHO, is better than getting something 3-5 times the price and keep them there for 5 years. Electronics nowadays... just really are not build to last. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCTV_Suppliers 0 Posted September 13, 2007 I currently only provide 2 years however... I do provide remote config, remote training and remote troubleshooting (including client systems) for the full 2 years. Thats something you can't get in any dedicated system I have seen. I'm also not in the budget though. I do think your budget is reasonable, and if you requirements are low enough you can get something on the bottom end. If your requirements are very high you'll probably need another $500-1000 depending on what functions are required. This is a very good approach in handling equipment problems... very few that I know actually provide this type of service... this is worth a lot and with (2) years warranty, well it is a solid value... If lets say you want to take the warranty to 3 years, how much more will it really cost? Since you are providing online support, training, etc... which itself is a major value that I am sure your customers appreciate, did you ever look at possible (3) years warranty? I know that cost will be higher, but not much more... Excellent approach in handling equipment related problems... We provide similar service for our high end product lines, but could not cost justify the same for recorders sold that are less than $1,000... May be we should all revisit this formula and maintain our customers loyalty... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 14, 2007 You're lucky if you get 1 year warranty down here, on any product. Heck I got a limited 9 month warranty on a brand new $31,000 jeep ($22K in the US). There are just so many other factors involved though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCTV_Suppliers 0 Posted September 14, 2007 Not going to debate your other pts, but think what u say about warranty is not quite valid. It depends on each market and industry standard for warranty. Long warranty doesn't mean it is better product as well. Over here, seagate harddisk give 5 years warranty, hitachi, maxtor, wd give 3. I've done more seagate harddisk replacement than other brand. So longer warranty = better products ? I begged to differ. Nowadays, most product give just 1 year warranty. E.g. all your electronics basically give just 1 yr, sony, panasonic, toshiba, etc. So are they render as poor quality ? It depends on the local market and industry practise. Not so much on the quality of product. E.g.Some product give 3 years warranty, but basically is abt 3-5 times more expensive than those tat give 1 year warranty. Does it make them a better product ? Basically, i would like to think, the cost of replacement/repaired had been factored into the price already. Sometimes.. if it's not hard to replace.. it's better to get those 1 year warranty devices at 1/3 or 1/5 the price of those 3 years warranty one.. and get them replaced every year or so. Even good quality equipments come with wear and tear. Good cameras will get dirty, oily, greasly, dusty. Same as good quality DVRs, harddisk. Replacing them at 1/3 the cost every year before the MTBF IMHO, is better than getting something 3-5 times the price and keep them there for 5 years. Electronics nowadays... just really are not build to last. Some of your points are well taken and some I will debate... Longer warranty provide more confidence for the end users and makes them even more loyal for such brands... You are right when you say that for the item that comes with more warranty may be more expensive and "may be" is the key operative word... compared to products that come with lesser warranty that may qualify to purchase another unit just to replace the defective. However, if someone is reaching their neck out for a longer period of warranty and can deliver the goods for a reasonable price and then give you extended warranty of 3 years, then I will vote for such product, regardless what happens during such warranty. It is a risk to offer such warranty periods... Everyone knows, electronics fail and it is not IF, rather than WHEN... However, if a company is using better components and is willing to take that risk, then I rather take the chance with them rather than with someone for a year warranty... Case and point - Mitsubishi DVRs come with (5) years warranty.. They are priced well and provide exceptional performance.. Coupled with advanced replacement program during this warranty period, they captured more business than most, just because they were willing to go that extra mile.. and guess what, their failure rate for their DVR is lower than anything else out there that we have seen... I will not say that they "built" additional cost to cover such warranty period, rather they were very smart using top components that come with the same warranty periods... This is if their product fails, it really does not cost them much, as all internal components warranty are covered.. Sometimes I wander when someone sells a DVR with (1) years warranty that comes with Seagate drives that come with 5 years warranty, why not meet somewhere in the middle for such warranty for the end users? After all what really goes bad with DVRs anyway? Anything with moving components and if so, the only items that can ever fail are hard drives, the fans and possibly CD or DVD burners... and considering the fact that most motherboard for such systems rarely fail, then chances are excellent that such system will survive at least (3) years or more... Lets say the hard drive does fail... and it requires your attention... Well your cost for such repair is only labor, as your hard drives are already covered under warranty.. The same applies with most CD or DVD burners... not the fans, but as long as you use decent cooling fans with ball bearings, then that fan will last at least (3) years... I am not sure where are you located and chances are very good that each geographical location could impose a different warranty periods and I can give you that... As for the CCTV product line, well I focus on majors only and I wish one of these days I can find time to learn about the others, include Geo..... If you think that the manufacturers factor in the warranty costs just to cover costs, that is not entirely true either... If that is true, why is nowadays you can get major brand name equipment that is either the same cost or sometimes even lower than other lower end brands (example, you can get Sanyo 6 channel DVR with 80GB drive under $500.00)? I can tell you that you are right about the higher end equipment that they make, but not necessarily true about their lower end products... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted September 18, 2007 Hey Rory! Did you know the BC 4 comes with a 5 year warranty?? SWEEEEEET! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 18, 2007 Hey Rory! Did you know the BC 4 comes with a 5 year warranty?? SWEEEEEET! BC4? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted September 18, 2007 nubix 4 bc i am holding a sandwich, and typing with my pinky. sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
