How do you guys get over the 300' Cat5 restriction?

[rory 0]

Didnt realize it only goes to 300' (or 295'). Whats up with that, when we can use baluns and go over 1000' for video. Is this just a restriction with the IP technology, or is it a cat5 restriction? Is there other type of UTP cable that goes longer, or is that the limit with the switches etc anyway?

 

Thanks

Rory

[Kiwi 0]

Analog use of Cat5 twisted-pair like with baluns is really not comparable with digital use such as Ethernet. Chances are you could go over 300' with Ethernet but you need to set very strict standards for networking equipment.

 

I would imagine the capacitance of the cable is the factor limiting the length in digital use and analog color video. Possibly voltage drop limits b+w analog video length.

[rory 0]

Yeah but its still all just data .. analog, digital, still data, granted different technology .. though look at what they do with DSL on smaller telco lines ..

 

In any event .. im frustrated .. I was hoping what I read so far about this 300' limit was not so. Im only doing this for a basic network for a PC, and in this case Im just going to split the cable in between now with an extra switch .. but so does this mean if you have large buildings and you are doing IP cams over a network, you either have to spend the $$ on fiber, or use switches every 290' odd feet?

[Kiwi 0]

Yep, it seems that if you want to stick to wire and adhere to the standards you need the switches.

 

My basic understanding of DSL is that there is a carrier which is modulated and the extraction of the signal is dependent on high-tech algorithms.

 

100BaseT is a more primitive technology regarding use of the wire, instead depending on a very restricted control of the electrical media hence the tight standards on wire type and length. Digital data under the 100/1000baseT standard should conservatively have zero loss of data.

 

DSL is designed to work on a wide variety of legacy phone wire and will tolerate a substantial loss or variation of signal.

 

IP cameras are only using 100baseT to take advantage of cheap wire and hardware. So in a sense it should be "cheap" to add those switches!

 

Hope that helps...

[rory 0]

Down here though, cat5 is about the same price as RG59 coax .. and Switches are $50 each, not to mention the extra weatherproof housing or location for them

 

I guess with short runs it would be worth it though.

Seems that Wifi is where the IP technology really shines.

[survtech 0]

Digital data over ethernet is at a much higher frequency than analog video. That's why CAT-5 is typically rated for 350MHz. Analog only needs less than 10MHz.

[jeromephone 6]

The DSL from the service provider probably comes in over cat 3 or less. You can put your DSL router wherever you want as that can connect to your switch so you could have the switch on one end of the building and the dsl router located anywhere withing 300 feet.

[rory 0]

I must have been just under the 300' mark, as it worked for me after all, the person that did the connectors originally did the wiring wrong!! LOL

[313-313 0]

Rory,

I hear you LOL. Probably he got the color codes wrong while crimping. I had this guy who I had sent out for a 10 drop network job, This guy instead of doing either A or B, he went and did A one end and B on the other ( that becomes a cross over). He spent the whole day trying to get it working right. I had to finally go down there and see the problem.

[rory 0]

thing is, the electrician who originally did the connectors, used an analog tester which said all was okay, but when the other guy tested it today with his digital tester, he knew right away there was a problem with one of the wires .. so dont know exactly what was what, he just redid the furthest end .. and all was okay.

[Ddane 0]

If you do use repeaters of anykind (hubs, switches, etc...) you should make sure to use POE compliant ones if your running the power for your cameras over the same lines.

 

You also should make it a point to put your repeater BEFORE you get close to the 300 foot point mark.

[Daryl733 0]

Most ppl think network straight cables are just crimping the cables in their respective color on both side.

e.g. OrangeWhite, Orange, GreenWhite, Green, BlueWhite, Blue, Brown White, Brown.

 

In actual fact, you'll have to twist the cable.

i.e. OrangeWhite, Orange, GreenWhite, BLUE, BLUEWHITE, GREEN, BrownWhite, Brown.

 

Some contractors I worked with doesn't know this, they just crimp it in the same order. For short distance, it'll work. Even simple cable tester will not identify the problem as the wire are connected properly.

But for long distance, interference start to play a large factor, and the transmission of the network signal will not clear. The way the wire are twisted and used play a very important part in eliminating these external interference.

So most likely your prob is the original guy who did ur cabling just crimp it wrongly.

 

For more information, http://www.zytrax.com/tech/layer_1/cables/tech_lan.htm

[Daryl733 0]

What I am more interested to know is....

does 1000base-T support POE ?

 

What I know of most equipments are, since 100base-T does not utilised all the 8 wire in the cat5 cable, they utlised the unused cables to send power over to the equipments.

From what I know, 1000base-T uses all 8 wires in the cables for information.

So will an Gigabyte switch get damage if u utilised a POE device on it since it is utlising all 8 cables, and the POE device is also pumping power through the now used wire into your Gigabyte Switch ?

[CollinR 0]

So will an Gigabyte switch get damage if u utilised a POE device on it since it is utlising all 8 cables, and the POE device is also pumping power through the now used wire into your Gigabyte Switch ?

 

Assuming you are really talking about POE, no it shouldn't. The devices communitcate before it dumps the full voltage.

 

Many many put 12vdc on the unused pairs, thats not POE and that will fry basically any network device connected to it.

[rory 0]

If you do use repeaters of anykind (hubs, switches, etc...) you should make sure to use POE compliant ones if your running the power for your cameras over the same lines.

 

You also should make it a point to put your repeater BEFORE you get close to the 300 foot point mark.

 

Thanks, no was just a PC network, no cameras on it.

[Daryl733 0]

So will an Gigabyte switch get damage if u utilised a POE device on it since it is utlising all 8 cables, and the POE device is also pumping power through the now used wire into your Gigabyte Switch ?

 

Assuming you are really talking about POE, no it shouldn't. The devices communitcate before it dumps the full voltage.

 

Many many put 12vdc on the unused pairs, thats not POE and that will fry basically any network device connected to it.

 

I know this's a bit irrelevent in this thread... but anyone know of cheap equipents that can pump 12VDC through coax for cameras ? I know of VDS equipments, but those are too expensive for the application i have in mind.

[Javik 0]

Perhaps twisted pair costs the same as RG6 but what kind of cable are we talking about?

 

For me, I work in a school, and there's such a variety of ceiling ventilation methods up in the drop ceilings that I can't know from one room to the next if a plenum air-return is being used. As such I'm forced to use plenum-rated (doesn't give off toxic fumes when it burns) cable for everything whether or not it's really needed.

 

 

Plenum-rated CAT5 is common and therefore not too expensive.

 

Plenum-rated RG6? Good luck finding it, and be ready to pay a high price for it.

 

Plenum-rated siamese cable (RG6 + 2 power wires in a single zip cord) does not appear to exist, and if it does it's going to cost a fortune per foot.

 

 

It appears that if you have to comply with plenum safety rules, twisted pair is going to be the less-expensive route.

[survtech 0]

I know this's a bit irrelevent in this thread... but anyone know of cheap equipents that can pump 12VDC through coax for cameras ? I know of VDS equipments, but those are too expensive for the application i have in mind.

http://www.smarthome.com/7828.html

Not really inexpensive, but there you are.

[woodyads 0]

Rory,

If you are only pumping one or two cameras through that cable, it's unlikely you are using more that 10mb/s. Force that port down to 10mb/s and you will get more distance. Again if your desperate you can force it to half duplex and improve the distance again.

 

Yes you will need a manageable switch to do this. and don't use hubs as they only replicate the analogue signal with all its faults. Switches store and forward so they check the data then resend a fresh signal.

[rory 0]

Rory,

If you are only pumping one or two cameras through that cable, it's unlikely you are using more that 10mb/s. Force that port down to 10mb/s and you will get more distance. Again if your desperate you can force it to half duplex and improve the distance again.

 

Yes you will need a manageable switch to do this. and don't use hubs as they only replicate the analogue signal with all its faults. Switches store and forward so they check the data then resend a fresh signal.

 

Hi, it worked okay in the end, was just a bad connection. But I will remember that for the future, didnt know. thanks

 

Rory

[user1 0]

The rule is 328 feet, but that's for legal mess. They will do 400ft using PoE at 12fps with no problem.

[phil.boorman 0]

You can use Poe Powered ethernet repeaters.

 

It is possible to cascade up to three of these devices, so you could reach up to 400m without the need for any external power along the route.

 

Check out [edit by mod - For advertising options please see this link: http://www.cctvforum.com/advertise.php ] for further information and datasheets etc.

[InNorthernWeTrust 0]

Veracity makes a IP over Coax transmitter that will do 900'.

 

http://www.veracityusa.com/products/highwire/highwire.php

 

It's not outragously priced either.

[mfennell 0]

Veracity makes a IP over Coax transmitter that will do 900'.

 

http://www.veracityusa.com/products/highwire/highwire.php

 

It's not outragously priced either.

Veracity is the way to go, PoE repeaters.. Ip over Coax converters.. PoE switches all sorts of very usefull things

[rory 0]

Just to verify peeps, not a question about POE, just the restriction in general, in fact it had nothing to do with video really, was just a router and access point issue I was having which ended up just being a bad connection. Thanks though.