how much for installation

[texasdyme 0]

HOw much do you guys thing I should charge for this installation (labor and equipment)

 

customer wants 4 b/w indoor cameras with monitor and dvr and wanting to access it via the internet.

[VST_Man 1]

charge less than your competition OR provide better equipment/support at the same price.

 

or do it for free............

[scorpion 0]

If you are a licensed, and insured company then I recommend:

 

$100.00 per camera, $100.00 for the DVR, and $200 for the network setup.

 

If it is a difficult install then charge $100.00 per hour.

[imcclendon 0]

How much do you normally charge?

[photys 0]

How much do you normally charge?

 

This is his first job.

He mentioned this is his "New business" in another post.

[scorpion 0]

I am curious as to how much you planned on charging as well.

 

I charge those rates so that I can cover the following:

 

This includes tech support (24/7 phone number), and anything that I can do to help beyond manufacture warranty ect.

 

I have had to show up to people's houses to help them off load video to give to the police dept. I try not to keep the police waiting for very long!

 

My product charges are higher to some degree compared to others on this forum. I tend to lose more customers out the showroom doors as they go to big box clubs, or off the internet. I tend to see these same people later down the road as they "get burned" by poor products, or ripped off from the internet, and then they wish the "ebay guy/store" would have the same "tech support" that we provide.

 

I have stand by cameras, and I have stand by DVRs for those once in a blue equipment failures, or malfuction. (Here in Florida we are know as the lightning capitol of the world, and you have to deal with the flicker, and flash problems from the power company).

 

One camera, and one DVR with an hour drive: How much does it cost me?

Ouch!

[imcclendon 0]

How much do you normally charge?

 

This is his first job.

He mentioned this is his "New business" in another post.

 

In that case, do you know what your competitors are charging? A Competitor Analysis is a neccesarry step in your business plan if you have not already done one.

 

Scorpion makes a good point. You have to incorporate your overhead costs and allow for incidentals that you may incur into your price structure.

[scorpion 0]

I tend to loose a few bids here, and there. Then again I rarely have to deal with a low budget install where the customer does not want to spend any money then they come back on me to complain that the system does not do what they expected it to do. I want to read a license plate in complete darkness at 60 feet from my house, and I want it in color! This is why I hired you in the first place. Now I want you to take back all of this equipment, and I want my money back.

 

I could install a 16 camera system with true day night cameras, and the best DVR for $300.00 equiment, and installation, and these kind of customers would still find a way to complain about something!

 

I try to spend more time prequalifying people. They have to have a need to protect something. I am not going to sell a system for the sake of selling equipment to make money. If I do not sense any urgency, or importance to their needs I would rather walk away from the project.

 

Expecting moms: Done Deal!

Contractors with tools/trailers: Done Deal!

Business people who work out of their home, and they deal with the public: That is a done deal.

Someone who has already been ripped off, and has lost "faith", and "trust" in their privacy, or protection: Done Deal!

Someone who has a large income, who could be a target of theft/breakin: Done Deal!

I want to see who is stealing my newspaper, and I want to spend $50.00: Prequalify to upgrade or walk away!

I want to see who is scratching my car, and I want to put a cheap camera in the inside of my window for night time video capture: It is not going to work, I suggest....blah blah...and Have a nice day!

 

If you need a cheap system, and you have a need then I can help someone! There are some good tricks to get a cheap system installed, and you can make the system flexible to meet future needs, and unexpected "events".

You are prequalified, and I will now bust my butt to make it happen!

 

You would be suprised at how many cameras I sell to someone, and then I recommend that they buy a $50.00 VCR. People on a tight budget have the right to protect their property just like any one else.

 

This is why in the article section, I put the "How to fix your video Problems". You would be suprised at the difficulty in bringing up video with a VCR, and a composite input on a TV!

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=41

 

 

For the true do it yourself! "How to run wire in a Florida attic"!

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=48

 

 

When the gremlins creep their heads up after a DIY (do it yourself) Installation, and then give this advice!

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=42

_________________________________________________________

 

So here I sit giving away all this information for free, and loosing money on "lost" business!!!!!

 

Yet these people are my biggest marketing campainers!! I get more jobs from these people then any advertising in the Yellow Pages, newspaper, or magazine!! It is usually a family member (son/daughter brother/ sister family friend ect).

 

I get jobs off of a "marketing campain" that does not cost me any money (per se).

___________________________________________________________

 

If you came in to the show room you would actually laugh! Do you know how many pieces of cheap alarm gear I have?? I have loads of it!

 

I have simple motion detectors that chime, or alarm, I have motion detectors that dial out and repeat the message that you recorded in to the device. Imagine getting a cell phone call, and you hear your voice saying there is a breakin ......., or what ever you set this device up to trigger, such as your daughter has just jumped out the window (late night).

 

I have a telephone for beautiful single females! If you are hot, and single then you need this!!!!!! Your cell phone will ring, and you can hear what is going on in your apt, or house!!! Is it the maitenance person installing a new air filter, or letting the bug spray person in, or his he rifleing through your drawers??????? I can solve that issue for you!!

 

I have a device that will call you on your cell phone, and you can listen in on your home!!! Who is that with your boyfriend/girlfriend???? Are they cheating, or are you just paranoid???? I can solve that for you too!!

 

I have hidden safes!! I have hairspray that is hollow! I have water bottles that are hollow. You can store jewelry, or you can store cash!! I use a desenex can in my luggage in case some hotel person decides they want to enter my room, and take my cash!! Would you touch a can of desenex?? Gross!!

 

I have devices that will record both sides of a telephone call, or you can record both sides of YOUR own cell phone calls.

 

LADIES!! Do you go to tanning salons? I can help you find hidden cameras in 5 seconds flat. The camera does not have to be plugged in, the camera does not have to be operational, but you can still find it!

 

I am not trying to make a sale here. I am saying, people protect yourself at all times!!!!! To dealers, think like a thief when you install equipment. If you do not know how a thief does his job, how are you supposed to do yours????

 

Be a security "specialist". Watch shows like "to catch a thief", figure a way to provide a security solution for every budget. I love a challenge, and this is why I enjoy this work so much.

Edited October 31, 2007 by Guest

[rory 0]

$75 per camera, $150 for the 4 channel DVR. This does not include running any cable.

[scorpion 0]

How much do you charge to replace a hard drive for an upgrade?

Edited October 21, 2007 by Guest

[rory 0]

what about it?

[rory 0]

indoor bullet/dome - $75

vandal dome - $150

Outdoor Box camera - $150

difficult camera - $250

PTZ - $450

Infrared LED - $150 (requires night time adjustments etc)

Infrared Camera - $250 (the real gear)

 

(none of the above includes wiring except a 4 channel budget job like drop ceiling/attic)

 

service min $75

4chDVR - $150, 8/10CH - $250, 16ch -$450

 

-----------------------------------

average install (done properly)

-----------------------------------

indoor bullet/dome - 1 hour

vandal dome - 2 hours

Outdoor Box camera - 2 hours

difficult camera - 3-4 hours

PTZ - 4-6 hours

Infrared LED - 2 hours

Infrared Camera - 2-4 hours

[jisaac 0]

the way we charge for installation has changed over the years. I first tried to bill per hour at $65 an hour. So I left the labor off of the total price on the proposals and then after the install billed them for time spent out there. People did not like that and had issues with some people.

So I changed it to taking my best guess at the time to install the system when doing a proposal. And if it takes us longer then we just eat the labor cost. People like that alot better.

If you want to be in business you have to charge for your labor. If your licensed, insured, and possible even bonded then you have a large amount of cost to be in business. And you have to pay your installers.

After being in business for a short time I realized all the cost in installation for us dealers/installers. So I raised our labor rate to 80 per tech/installer.

****Charging for labor is a must.******

On average if we installed a "typical" system with runs from 0-150ft max then a 8 camera system would be installed for around $1,500-$2,500.

P.S. I have learned to never put the price your installing it on your proposals by itself. Just include it in the total price. People for some reason hate to see the labor price. I just put "installation included".

[kao 0]

P.S. I have learned to never put the price your installing it on your proposals by itself. Just include it in the total price. People for some reason hate to see the labor price. I just put "installation included".

 

/agree

 

Learned the same thing here...try and guestimate the labor charge and quote the whole thing at one price.

Some customers love to pick apart your itemized quote.

 

Also - just to cover your ass, I recommend either adding a bit of fine print or changing the name of your quote to estimate.

 

There will be times you spec a job and run into unforeseen problems.

Example - walked thru a small university with the maintenance staff and discussed where cameras would be mounted. We poked our heads up through the ceiling tiles every so often just to make sure we had some clearance to run cabling. The maintenance guy assured us that everything was clear above the drop ceiling.

Seemed like a pretty easy job being all on one floor and drop ceiling all around.

Of course when we started pulling cable...we found the HVAC ducts in some spots were so tight we had to re-route the cabling far out of the way...we also found an area where there were cement "firewalls" where we had to get cable through. They were a *** to drill through and once we got through we had to get the cable across an inaccessible ceiling area to another "firewall". Good thing we had a piece of 10ft conduit with to "fish" from one wall to the other.

So the easy job turned into about 8 hours more than it should have. Luckily the school was understanding about the extra labor as their maintenance guy admitted he forgot about those areas.

[rory 0]

Ive found it the other way, more clients down here want to see the labor. Also, personally I would not accept a quote for something else without knowing what the labor is, was very particular with this also when on a board of directors and we had to choose from 3 quotes. After all, we could have been getting ripped off.

[jisaac 0]

there are some government jobs and ALL military jobs that require a breakdown on cost. They require that the job can not have any more than 30% of the total cost be labor

[C7 in CA 0]

30%? ouch. No wonder a toilet seat costs the government $300. We are closer to 50% on our labor to materials cost with cabling. If I had to conform to a requirement like that I would have to jack up the margins on the materials. In

turn that would pump up the sales tax the client had to pay.

 

I show all costs on our bids including a breakdown of materials used. Looks real impressive next to the 1 paragraph bids that mostly only talk about what the contractor wont do. And the bottom line price of course.

 

Like kao our form says Estimate not Bid. It is usually never questioned. And I don't use it as a "gotcha" just a safety net. I still usually always eat some cost on a job. The only times I've really gone back with an addendum is when the guy that was in there before me did something stupid that I end up having to work around.

[scorpion 0]

In my quotes I will put in one column (item description) the amount of labor hour estimated. (this is on the high side).

 

In the next column for product info I put the actual hour charged.

 

If the job goes longer than actual amount charged the customer is happy as they do not get charged for the extra hours. If the job goes longer than the estimated hours then we charge for the extra time.

 

I did have one customer that kept changing his mind, and he had us placing cameras in different places then where we noted that they would be installed at the time of the site survey.

 

He was also a jerk. Every time some issue came up, then the first thing that would come out of his mouth was "do I get a free camera for that?

 

There was one mistake made at the time of the site survey. Hey, mistakes happen with sales people. Oh Well! Win a few, eat a few, it works out in the wash. This guy says that one of the cameras on the house is wrong. One of the cameras is supposed to be out by the street!

 

You guessed it. No bid on the extra wire, no conduit, and no labor figured in. I called the sales guy, and he denied such a request ever came up.

 

As a "favor" we went ahead, and planted a 4X4 pole, and ran the wire in conduit. We did not charge for the extra wire, conduit, or labor.

 

The first thing he says is Yep You Guessed it! Since you messed that up do I get a free camera mounted on the side of the house?

 

This was a wall where no camera was bidded for.

 

I was shocked, then I was pissed! We finally were wrapping up the install, and had everything almost done. This guy is still coming up with a list of complaints. I looked at my watch, then I told all of the guys to get in the van, and I handed the guy a bullet camera, and said congradulations! Here is your free camera, and we left! The DVR was still in the van, and we just finished the interior wiring. All that was left was the hook up to the power supply, and installing the DVR. What was originally a 7 camera, 4 hour job on site turned to a 9 hour job on site plus more to go. The bid said 8 hours estimated, and 5 hours charged.

 

He says, "Hey! Where are you going? I said your 8 hours are up. Have a nice day! He took one look at the camera, and one look at us as we closed the doors, and drove off!

 

He calls me on my cell phone, and he asks, are you guy coming in tomorrow? I said we sure are! Will you be paying cash, or by check for the installation tomorrow? He got the point, and we showed up the next morning, and had his system up, and running in hour. I said just give me a list of 10 people who can use a system like yours, and there is no charge, and we will mount the extra camera for you too!

 

I already ran a prewire for an upsale down the road. We were already there, and an extra wire was no big deal!

 

One satisfied customer, and a list of 10 more to call!

Edited October 31, 2007 by Guest

[rory 0]

30%? ouch. No wonder a toilet seat costs the government $300. We are closer to 50% on our labor to materials cost with cabling. If I had to conform to a requirement like that I would have to jack up the margins on the materials. In

turn that would pump up the sales tax the client had to pay.

 

I show all costs on our bids including a breakdown of materials used. Looks real impressive next to the 1 paragraph bids that mostly only talk about what the contractor wont do. And the bottom line price of course.

 

Like kao our form says Estimate not Bid. It is usually never questioned. And I don't use it as a "gotcha" just a safety net. I still usually always eat some cost on a job. The only times I've really gone back with an addendum is when the guy that was in there before me did something stupid that I end up having to work around.

 

Down here the government only pays 10% deposit, so someone selling them a $1,000 DVR, quotes it for $10,000!! Actually I was told by a local police division here they paid $17,000 for a DVR, which could not have cost more than $3,000 first cost, and being a PC based DVR, would have been duty free and cost no more than $150 to land it!!

 

Needless to say though, I'm not interested in doing work for the government here, I know a couple people that do and they can take 2 years to get paid the balance in most cases.

[percy 0]

Labor is one of the most difficult items to estimate. Before I got into this business I was a senior manager for a large software company. I was responsible for major project running into the millions of dollars. I had to estimate labor cost for projects that could run for months with vague requirements. I used statistics to estimate my cost and we made money on almost every project. The ones we were over on were never more than 10% over or estimate. The math is not that hard.

 

1. First I developed three estimates for my labor cost. A.is the best case. B. the most likely time and C. the worst case.

 

2. Next to get my initial estimate I take .2 x best + .6 x likely + .2 x worst

 

So if my estimates were 4 hours best case, 7 hours likely and 12 hours worst, my initial estimate would be .2*4+.6*7+.2*12 = 7.4

 

Now this is not your estimate, for those of had statistics you will remember the bell curve. The estimate of 7.4 hours only gives you a 50/50 chance of being right.

 

Next we find an approximation for the standard deviation which would be the difference of the extremes multiplied by their probability;

 

sd = (worst case) x (probability of worst case) - (best case) x (probability of best case)

 

sd = .2*12 - .2*4 = 1.6

 

Using normal distribution tables;

 

+/- one standard deviation 68% confidence interval

+/- two standard deviation 95% confidence interval

+/- three standard deviation 99% confidence interval.

 

So what does all this mean. If we take two times the standard deviation or in our case 1.6 * 2 = 3.2 and add it to our initial estimate of 7.4 which gives us 10.6 hours we can say with a 95% chance that our labor hours will be less than 10.6 hours.

 

This works, you don't stay in your job long losing money on million dollar projects.

[Lolo Wolf 0]

Percy states:", you don't stay in your job long losing money on million dollar projects." Often true in the private sector but In the Military and Congress the more money you lose and waste the more promotions you get.

[CollinR 0]

I use 6 sigma too!

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

You guys are fortunate.

 

In South Africa we couldn't charge that much. We use a daily tariff, and estimate the amount of days required. If we estimate wrong - we carry the penalty.

 

On average we are looking at a daily rate of about $250.00, many installers are charging less than that.