25 fps realtime recording across 6-8 cameras ?

[paranoid 0]

Hi all,

 

I am considering a geovision card or something similar.

I will install between 6-8 day/night cameras and wish to achieve a realtime recording rate of 25 fps pal or higher.

 

I am a bit confused with geovisions quoted recording rates and wondering if someone can point me in the right direction ?

 

Cheers

 

Mick

[Thomas 0]

Can I ask why you need 25 frames a camera?

[paranoid 0]

Thanks for your reply,

 

I need very high quality recording, as close to real time as possible on all camera feeds.

I have used lower frame rates in the past and they are not suitable for my requirements. I have always had the impression that 25 fps is the minimum for realtime recording with no timelapse effect.

 

Unless im wrong ?

 

Cheers

 

Mick

[Cooperman 0]

Hi paranoid,

 

You're quite right, 25 frames per second is 'real time' here in the U.K.

 

15 plus is normally taken as 'virtual' real time, although you obviously already know what you want.

 

DVR Expert Australia will probably be able to advise you on the subtleties of 'GEO' systems.

[dusan 0]

rule of tumb is 1 video ic is 25/30 fps so 4 ic is 120 fps

so if you go with geovision you need model gv900 minimum as it have 8 ic

http://www.geovision.com.tw/002/en/product-gv900.asp

 

dusan

[AliB 0]

To be exact on the 25 or 30 frames for real time. The UK PAL system needs 25fps for realtime. NTSC needs 30fps.

Geovision is not the only option. Surelabs have a real time capture card and associated software. If you are planning remote surveillance the Surelabs have several additions over Geo, the biggest is the way the licencing works. With Surelabs you can install a full second copy on a second PC. Geo only allows the second copy to have view-only function not access to the setup modes. Just PM me if you want full details of the Surelabs products.

[cctv_down_under 0]

I dont know where you got that Info from Ali, but is wrong, you can have full access to setup as many times as you like without licensing.. as for 30/25FPS this is only achievable with todays architecture...unless using hardware compression.. at smaller resolutions.. depending on hardware you lose about 25% at large resolutions

[rory 0]

I thought I read somewhere, 30pps is real time as the human eye sees it, but 60pps is true real time??

[paranoid 0]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

The bottom line is that I need a maximum of 8 cams all recording at a minimum of 25 fps pal each and also at the highest possible resolution, 320 x 240 will simply not do.

 

The software will need to be installed on up to 4 pc,s and give access to live / recorded feed.

 

Am I still looking at GEO cards ?

 

Cheers

 

Mick

[knightvision 0]

Rory,

This is where pps, f(rames) per second, and f(ields) per second get a little confusing, as people tend to use the 3 interchangeably. When using an interlaced system, the camera is actually taking 2 "pictures" or "fields" a split second apart, and then the DVR weaves these together to create one "FRAME." 30 FRAMES per second is true real time, but the human eye loses the ability to distinguish between lapse and real-time at about 12-13 FRAMES per second. To calculate your pics or fields per second, simply multiply by two.

[Thomas 0]

Movies use a simular techinque. They show 24 fps but then use a device (maltase cross) that moves in front of the film to make it more like 48 fps, just duplicating each frame.

[cctv_down_under 0]

Be wary too because some manufactorers count fileds instead of frames and it has the same abbreviation FPS

[dusan 0]

this video ic can do ~704 x 576 video at 25fps or 30 fps

so if software and rest of a board ic's and pci bus and speed of your computer can handle it

geovision gv900 or gv1000 will do video at ~640x480 at 30/25fps on 8ch channels or more depends on compresion level of mpeg4 or geo mpeg4

 

win xp,asus p4c800e delux or better,p4 3.2ghz or up cpu,2gb ram,hitachi 250gb - 400gb sata hd as data drive,and a separate boot drive hitachi 36gb scsi Ultrastar 10K300 or sata wd raptor 74gb

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=65

and 1gb network switch on cat5e cable

 

and you have a system that can hanle it

 

dusan

[pinecomputer 0]

You can use two Kodicom 4400R card and atack them up to connet 8 cameras, recording FPS will be 30 FPS per camera

Alex

[k_manNZ 0]

I just had this exact request from a client.

He wanted to use the footage for swimming performace evaluations.

 

The nitigritty

the PCI bus has a pratical maximum of ~125 Mb/sec

 

A full frame stream of uncompressed video is 30Mb/s

As you can guess, 4 streams adds up the to the limit very quickly.

 

Your options are

Use full field (Haven't got an eight port realtime card to test out)

Get a system with multiple PCI Buses (PCI-X is backward compatible)

Track down a hardware based solution.

 

[Thomas 0]

Actully it's closer to 18 Mb/s for uncompressived video. CCTV doesn't need to use the closed captioning section of the signal, ect. And keep in mind that communcation types work in powers of ten rather then binary.

[dusan 0]

this 25fps mpeg4 is not at 30mb sec uncompresed video it is compress (6-20) to mpeg4 on fly at 25fps on all 8ch by super fast cpu and ms win xp mpeg4 sw

 

that is why i only say that gv900 or gv1000 can handle this video in ic's on the pci board and fastest computer you can have for mpeg4 compresion procesing at best kvality you can get out of pci computer bandwith ~90mb if you have

many pci boards in system that have nany irq , intel chipset's limit

and you still need to record all that on hd so more irq on pci bus , 1gb network

so intel 875 or 925 chipset asus mbord and 3ghz and up cpu and 2 hd 1 boot 1 for video

 

new mpeg4 ic's silicon is comming soon so all this will happen in hardware ic's

not on the computer pci or x bus

 

dusan

[dimitri 0]

About Surelabs, it has one of the best products out there.

I know them because the are in the same building with us.

But since the real Surelabs Software Engineers left ( they resigned end of 2004),

everything is terrible.

All the development is unprofessional (crappy/buggy software) and

zero support.

How can they sell a Security Product,

when it crushes and freezes on Windows OS every time?

You just have to buy/try it to believe me,

but then it will be to late!!!.

[cctv_down_under 0]

Actually I thought Surelabs was developed here in Australia, used to know the guy, was going to look to employ him???

 

As for speed of recordings, the limit is still the PCI bus, and most manufactorers rate their speeds on 320x240 and forget to emntion that once a certain number of cams is reached, thats it the PCI bus is full and thats your limit... the only way to get around this is hardware based compression, but this is still alittle expensive these days

[qman 0]

Well, let's see what the PCIE spec will bring us now, it has more pipelines and much faster bus speed.

[steve6690 0]

So, out of interest, is there such a beast as a cctv capture card with full onboard compression, what is the recorded video quality like, and how do they compare price-wise to, say, a Geo. If your main goal was image quality would you still be better off going for a good standalone ?

Our police station has just changed its two analogue systems to DM Digital Sprite 2 using JVC monitors and the displayed video, compared to any PC based system I have seen, is in another league completely. Could any PC card match that ?

[qman 0]

Steve, if you wait till around September, we will have something available that will knock you of your shoes. I can't talk about it, but I know that it will be much much better than GEO and much better priced.

[steve6690 0]

sounds very interesting herm ..

[rory 0]

geo has a 4 channel card with hardware compresion. Dont know what it is like. But if you use the DSP card, or the new combo cards, you get the standalone quality for live display on a TV or CCTV monitor, in real time (480fps). Many PC DVRS now have the DSP card as well.

 

Actually after working with several DMs the GE DVR kicks its butt in stablity, ease of use, display speeds, and ofcourse, quality.