gar32 0 Posted November 24, 2007 Hi all, Got to do a quote fo 2 pubs local to me. The light levels inside the bar is a little bit dim. I'm not sure what spec of colour dome to get. I've narrowed it down to 2 cams. Which would you pick ? CAMERA 1 Colour SONY Super HAD HQ1 high resolution 3.7-12mm lens dome 12v-24v High resolution colour dome camera with a SONY Super HAD CCD and a Hitachi HQ1 DSP, fitted with a 3.7 - 12mm auto iris varifocal lens. CAMERA 2 Day / Night SONY Super HAD HQ1 high resolution 3.7-12mm lens dome 12v-24v High resolution day / night switching dome camera with a SONY Super HAD CCD and a Hitachi HQ1 DSP. Fitted with a 3.7 - 12mm auto iris varifocal lens using a built in IR cut filter to switch between monochrome and colour. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted November 24, 2007 BW typically works best in low lit bars and nightclubs, though if you only have the choice of the 2 mentioned then it would be number 2. Color wont work at all in a low lit environment like that, in most cases. Even so the day night's BW mode may still not be low enough, and a Day Night camera is not as sensitive in low light as a BW only camera is. See if you can post the Brand Name, and Minimum Lux Levels so we can take a look at that also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gar32 0 Posted November 24, 2007 Camera 1 Camera Type Colour Pick Up Device 1/3 “ SONY Super HAD CCD Picture Elements 752 x 582 pixels Digital Signal Processor Hitachi HQ1 DSP Horizontal Resolution 550 TV lines Minimum Illumination 0.15 Lux DSS off Minimum Illumination 0.005 Lux DSS on Scanning System 2 : 1 Interlace Scanning System Internal Video output 1Vp-p composite video 75ohm S/N Ratio 50dB min Gamma 0.45 Auto Gain Control +18dB max Audio output N/A Lens Type 3.7-12.0mm varifocal auto iris lens Iris Control Auto Iris DC drive Electronic Shutter N/A White Balance Auto tracing Back Light Compensation On/Off switchable Gain Control Auto Digital slow Shutter N/A Horizontal Mirror On/Off switchable Power Supply DC12v - AC24v Power Consumption 150mA max. (DC12v) / 60mA max. (AC24v) Camera 2 Camera Type Day / Night (switching) Pick Up Device 1/3 “ SONY Super HAD CCD Picture Elements 752 x 582 pixels Digital Signal Processor Hitachi HQ1 DSP Horizontal Resolution 550 TV lines Minimum Illumination 0.15 Lux DSS off Scanning System 2 : 1 Interlace Synchronisation Internal Video output 1Vp-p composite video 75ohm S/N Ratio 50dB min Gamma 0.45 Auto Gain Control +18dB max Audio output N/A Lens Type 3.7-12.0mm varifocal auto iris lens Iris Control Auto Iris DC drive Electronic Shutter N/A White Balance Auto tracing Back Light Compensation On/Off switchable Gain Control Auto Digital slow Shutter N/A Horizontal Mirror On/Off switchable Power Supply DC12v - AC24v Power Consumption 180mA max. (DC12v) / 60mA max. (AC24v) Dimension 136(D) x 100(H) mm That was quick !! The customer wants colour cameras and high resolution. Its a fairly rough bar s that why I want discrete domes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted November 24, 2007 I doubt either of those will do the job, though I do not know the lighting level at the location. Minimum Illumination on the color camera using DSS is below that of the lowest lux BW Chip, the Sony Exview - so I would ignore all specs regarding lux levels on those cameras. Also, DSS is pretty useless IMO as it slows down the video to see in lower light, and when using a DVR that will mean the video will be even slower. Its still a neat idea, but personally I am not fond of it. Both use a much lower power consumption than any high quality camera I have seen so far, especially the day night model, those are typically over 350ma easy. Basically specs from most manufacturers are typically incorrect and just sales pitches, even moreso from OEM products. Only way to tell is to buy one and test it out unfortunately, unless someone else has used it and is prepared to let you see their system, under the same or similar lighting conditions. Be sure to also check out the threads in this post for more information and other views. http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6122 BTW, the customer may want alot of things they will never be able to get. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gar32 0 Posted November 25, 2007 Black and white may be the way to go ! I might visit the bar at nite to see what its like then. Thanks for your quick advice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RealSec 0 Posted November 29, 2007 Dynamic cctv in the UK have some very good day/night domes. I have used these on a few jobs. The postage to ireland is reasonable Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kao 0 Posted November 29, 2007 I set up some KT&C WDR domes in a bar/pub. The bar has good lighting during the day because of large windows allowing a lot of sunshine in. After installing the domes, the color rarely ever kicked in. Even with the sunlight, the cameras stayed in B/W mode 90% of the time. If I pulled the dome cover off (which is clear and not smoked) the color would kick in more often...so it is probably on the border of sensitivity for color/B&W. I forced one of the cameras to stay in color mode to see if the customer likes that better. To be honest, I'm not happy with color or B&W mode. I have changed about every setting on the camera and on the DVR and the images just dont impress me. I think in the future I will automatically do Hi-res B&W cameras for any bars/pubs/nightclubs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gar32 0 Posted December 1, 2007 Many thanks for the replys everyone. I might buy a WDR dome to test it anyway to see what they are like. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Safe Tech USA 0 Posted December 21, 2007 you might want to try a camera with a Day & Night Capability up to 0.002Lux with DSS Function (Digital Slow Shutter). ive used cameras like that with amazing results in bars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted December 21, 2007 you might want to try a camera with a Day & Night Capability up to 0.002Lux with DSS Function (Digital Slow Shutter). ive used cameras like that with amazing results in bars. DSS will not be any good for a bar/club environment, the video will be too slow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Safe Tech USA 0 Posted December 21, 2007 you might want to try a camera with a Day & Night Capability up to 0.002Lux with DSS Function (Digital Slow Shutter). ive used cameras like that with amazing results in bars. DSS will not be any good for a bar/club environment, the video will be too slow. i disagree. yes it slows it down but the recorded quality accepted by most owners is slower than real time anyway. i guess it depends on your given situation. if speed is a needed your right... if image quailty is needed and possible even color dss is your answer... of course as mentioned before a high res b/w cam with low lux solves everything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CollinR 0 Posted December 21, 2007 DSS sucks bad, if your subject moves. Makes for great static demo shots though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted December 21, 2007 i disagree. yes it slows it down but the recorded quality accepted by most owners is slower than real time anyway. i guess it depends on your given situation. if speed is a needed your right... if image quailty is needed and possible even color dss is your answer... of course as mentioned before a high res b/w cam with low lux solves everything. And its then going to be twice as slow, slow frames already from the DVR, then the additional slow frames from the DSS .. so double (or much more) the slowness .. wont be any use to most owners IMO, at least in this country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMANOFNVS 0 Posted December 21, 2007 The best color cameras I have used in a bar with various lighting conditions from hardly any light to crazy neon bar signage is Bosch Flexidome VDC455 series(The Copper Rhino in Modesto have a few) or the LTC0495 box version. These wil give you awesome video and if you just decide to go with black and white Extreme makes a good one in the WZ series thats not to expensive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zmxtech 0 Posted December 22, 2007 Do it right , A day night cam with separate IR illumination anything else is just doing half the job... Slow shutters should be banned ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeAreNotAlone 0 Posted May 16, 2008 Do it right , A day night cam with separate IR illumination anything else is just doing half the job... Slow shutters should be banned ! On that separate IR Illumination- in regards to it being used in closed in spaces, long term exposure in occupied spaces... I read a post or something somewhere saying that the Human Eye does not sense IR light properly and there is a potential for damaging the retina ? If that is the case I would think that wouldn't be a good idea in a pub/bar for obvious reasons, compared to being used IR outside and the bad guy is only going to be exposed to IR for a short time... . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
