1st DVR. Need some help.

[kmb997 0]

Hi, I'm new to cctv, but have been reading and trying to learn as much as I can. I want to install my first home setup and would appreciate some advice before I waste money on bad products.

 

I'm looking for an 8 channel standalone. I want it to have all the features that most DVR's I've seen have. Web viewable, usb port, vga monitor and tv outputs, audio, cd or dvd burner, motion detection, search by date, time, good quality compression, etc. I 'm not sure about the recording options. I would like it to be able to record real time in good quality and would like there to be good quality video on my tv and computer monitor. If someone could explain more about this? I've seen recommendations for Avermedia, GE, Panasonic, Bosch, there are so many different brands I don't even really know what I'm looking for. I'm looking for something around $1000 and would like some suggestions of what I should look into.

 

Thanks

[scorpion 0]

Welcome to my world! Just as I get to know the products out there here come more products on the market.

 

When talking to individuals about DVRs I would say it is like talking about cars. Some people are die hard "Chevy" people, and some people are die hard "ford" people. Some people will rant about the quality of Foreign brands.

 

I ask what product did they start their career on? What they trained on is usually what they tend to stick with.

 

Others will have amassed a life time of experience base on bad products with bad tech support all the way to good products with super exellant tech support! Others stick with a brand based on dealer pricing. Others will stick with a DVR as this is what is in the catalog of their Distribution Chain.

 

What I am saying is that you will not get the same answer from different people. Although everyone will chip in with a known, and really bad product.

 

All I can say is dont believe what you read, and dont believe what people tell you! I would tell you not to trust me, and that would be the best thing.

 

My specialty is entry level market, and entry level price products. These products may not be for you.

 

Here is how to buy a DVR.

 

Know how you are going to use it. Is this for daytime use only? Is this for Nighttime use only? Will this be used 24 hours a day?

 

What is the "threat level". Are you guarding a few home electronics, or are you guarding one million dollars in cash? (what is your address again)? LOL!

 

The quality of the DVR is going to be effected by what kind of cameras you hook up to it. If you buy a million dollar DVR, and hook up 99 cent cameras to it then the video is going to be very disapointing!

 

I have seen mediocre DVRs with some very high end cameras attached, and even I would have to say that I never expected such good video from a cheap DVR, but then again with excellant cameras come excellant video.

 

As for the $1000 price tag you will see a lot of variety. You may get the product cheap, but then you will not be able to get any tech support to save your life!!

 

You may pay to much for a DVR, but then when you have major problems they may come to your rescue so fast that it will make your head spin!!

 

Take your homework on the DVRs that you have "investigated". Look at the features that you like. Make a list. Now go around looking for DVRs base on a set of "specs". If everyone has the same specs then you should get a better level of pricing. You will know who is gouging you, and who is so cheap that it it may be a remanufactured product. (nothing wrong with that, but I do not like people who sell remanufactured stuff as if it was brand new. That really makes me mad)!

 

Before you buy:

 

Call the company with a "fake complaint". Do they answer the phone? Do they respond to your emails?

 

Small companies such as MOM, and POP business may be overworked, and may not respond right away. They will respond, and they will take care of you. You may need to be patient.

 

Then there is the big internet site that can sell stuff all day long, and they do not need to tend to the "little" people. You almost have to beg for help!

 

I am exaggerating, but you get the point.

 

Go to my website, and compare other websites. I do not have much time to work on my website, so it tends to look a little "sloppy". I cannot afford to pay someone $5000.00 to put a glossy site together for me. I would have to raise my prices, and then I would have to get out of the entry level market, and then I would have to sell the $3000.00 and higher DVRs.

 

Now lets wait around for another member of this forum by the name of Rory who will make fun of me as I tend to write "novels" as he would say!

 

CCTV_Suppliers has a lot of good advice about buying DVRs! He will tell you to look for the products with 3 year warrantys, and that $1000 is kind of pushing it, but then you are not to far from the price point that you have asked for.

[scorpion 0]

I love AVTech Products, and I am recommending the AVC 785.

 

You can download the manual from my site, and read it before you buy.

[RickA 0]

I will agree with the novel writer, but I will say there are alot of very good stand alone DVR's that will work for your requirements. Including our own PDVR-8CD-600N, or even Nuvico's NVDV4-8750, or the NVDV3. You will have to check the DVR's out and decide on your own though. Everyone of us have our own preferences, but the one thing we do agree on, is that if you use one of any of our systems and we can help, we will.

[kmb997 0]

I will be using the DVR 24hrs. I would like it to record motion detect only but viewable 24hrs. over the internet. Not a big threat level. Definitely not a million dollars. If I had that I would have just paid someone to come and set it up for me. This is just an extra layer of precaution that I can afford right now. I would rather pay a little more for service. Scorpion, I found a local guy who has a DVR similar to the one you suggested on your site. I'm pretty sure it has all the same features yours has. I'm going to go talk with him more, he's knowledgable about his products, but he's more expensive than internet prices. Can you explain more about IPS/FPS and 8 channels of cameras? I would like to record at 30FPS, I don't know if this is possible with 8 cameras? I guess my next step is to find cameras. Like you said, I don't want cheap cameras with crap video. I started another thread under cameras, but haven't had any responses. I don't know if you would be able to help me?

 

Thank You Scorpion and Rick. I appreciate your help.

[RickA 0]

Images per second-IPS/Frames per second-FPS usually indicates record or capture rates per camera per second, with 8 cameras at 30 FPS you would need a DVR that is capable of 240 FPS. Hope this helps.

[scorpion 0]

30 frames per second is great if you are watching a mechanical assembly line, and you need to verify the activity. This video may not have a very impressive quality to the video.

 

On the other hand you can have a video that is so impressive that you can count every leaf on a tree. The video may appear more of a series of snap shots than a moving picture.

 

The budget will dictate in which direction you will go. Now if you are demanding excellant video quality, and 30fps then you will have to buy a high end DVR.

 

At the bottom of the market is where you have to make those trade offs.

 

Another is the size of the hard disk drive that will be installed.

 

What you will need to do is decide how long you will want to store your video before it overwrites its self. The minimum that I recommend is 4 days!!!

 

Imagine that you own a business, and something happens on a Friday, and they report to you on a Monday! There is 4 days before you can even try!!

 

Here is a simple forumula that I use. It is not scientific, and it is not perfect, but it is great for refernce.

 

On a 4 camera system you will use about 5 gigabytes of information per camera a day. With 4 cameras then we are talking about 20 giga bytes of information a day!! 20 times 5 equals 100 gigabyte hard drive.

 

16 channel DVR times 5 equals 80 gigabytes a day times 5 days that equals 400 gigabytes. You may as well buy a 500 gigabyte drive.

 

When you go on vacation you can change the settings on your dvr to 3 frames per second, and you can take it off of excellant quality image, and take it down to the lowest quality image, now you can get long term of recording without eating up the hard drive.

 

Another factor about DVRs is if you are going to be viewing over internet. The fps, and the quality of the video is going to dictate the kind of DVR.

 

Cheap DVRs will have slow processors, and will suffer from lots of heat.

 

Brutally expensive DVRs have extremely fast processors with no video lag, and you can bake them in an oven, and they still keep crunching video data with no loss!

 

The environment in which it will be installed will make or break a DVR.

 

I have customers that think they can stack all of the TV gear on TOP of the DVR in a cramped entertainment unit, and that will be fine! Ya! Go ahead and throw some more nails in to the DVRs coffin while you are at it!

 

LOL!

[iamiam 0]

I will be using the DVR 24hrs. I would like it to record motion detect only but viewable 24hrs. over the internet. Not a big threat level. Definitely not a million dollars. If I had that I would have just paid someone to come and set it up for me. This is just an extra layer of precaution that I can afford right now. I would rather pay a little more for service. Scorpion, I found a local guy who has a DVR similar to the one you suggested on your site. I'm pretty sure it has all the same features yours has. I'm going to go talk with him more, he's knowledgable about his products, but he's more expensive than internet prices. Can you explain more about IPS/FPS and 8 channels of cameras? I would like to record at 30FPS, I don't know if this is possible with 8 cameras? I guess my next step is to find cameras. Like you said, I don't want cheap cameras with crap video. I started another thread under cameras, but haven't had any responses. I don't know if you would be able to help me?

 

Thank You Scorpion and Rick. I appreciate your help.

240 FPS DVRs are going to be more than your budget. I would look for 120 FPS models where you can allocate frame rates among different cameras. This way you can set some cameras at 30, and lower rate on less crucial areas.

[kmb997 0]

A DVR that is capable of 240FPS is what I would need to record in real time without video lag? Are most DVR's capable of allocating frame rates to different cameras?

 

What are some brands that I should look into that have good video quality and can be baked in an oven? Or some brands that can't be baked, but not suffer from heat? Maybe something between cheap and high end? Also, is the processor speed listed in the specs of most DVRs?

 

Thanks again

[RickA 0]

Look at the nvdv4 and then compare with others, should give you a good idea on what to look for.

[rory 0]

buyer beware, most DVRs that claim 240fps or 480fps Recording, do that in lowest resolution only (and/or extremely high compression), and will typically be 30-60fps in normal resolution.

[kmb997 0]

Does the nvdv4 record at 30fps at high or medium resolution?

[rory 0]

Does the nvdv4 record at 30fps at high or medium resolution?

 

The DV3 says 30fps in high res, the DV4 claims 120fps.

Haven't used either myself, just going by the specs.

[kmb997 0]

Thanks Rory, I should have read the specs before posting a reply. Sorry.

[kmb997 0]

Does anyone have any suggestions for a DVR where the motion detection works well or is this something I shouldn't worry about?

Edited December 21, 2007 by Guest

[Gesualdo 0]

The nvdv4 does 240pps at 360x240, 120pps at 720x240 res ntsc, and 60pps at 720x 480 res ntsc

 

so that would be 120pps at medium res according to the specs.

 

http:// http://www.amasecurity.com/v/vspfiles/v4_Backup/product%20specs/nvdv4.pdf

[kmb997 0]

I've read that it isn't good to have high quality cameras with a cheap entry level DVR. If I were to use Panasonic WV-CP484 or Extreme CCTV cameras, what DVR's should I be looking into?

Thanks

[RickA 0]

We have used the Panasonic WV-CP484 camera's with good result with the Nuvico NVDV-4 DVR's. The nice thing is that you can always upgrade your DVR with ease, not saying you will have too, but easier to upgrade a DVR than replace camera's.

[kmb997 0]

Thanks RickA. I'm currently looking around for an 8 channel stand alone that will record 240fps at D1 or close to it and that will play back recordings at that high resolution. Have any ideas? I'll keep looking, but hopefully someone can narrow down my search. If this isn't possible with a stand alone, is my only option something like a geo card in a pc?

 

Thanks

[scorpion 0]

http://icrealtime.com/solutions/dvrpage.asp?productid=dvr808fx

[rory 0]

I would go for the Geo Card (if you are good with PC software and hardware) ... check out the GV-2008. If you want H264 though you would need to go with the GV-1240 (PCI-e), then add something like the Quad Core Extreme CPU and 4GB Dual Channel DDR2-800/1066/+. Using one of the Antech Mini Cases you can keep it small and still be able to use a Gigabyte MAtx board with one of the latest Intel Chipsets like the G31 Express, and also still have PCI Express room. Everything is then upgradeable and easy to replace when needed as you are utilizing off the shelf PC parts.

 

Otherwise, check out the Nuvico Stand Alone DVRs, they are suppose to be very good.

[kmb997 0]

Thanks Rory, but that setup seems a little expensive.

 

Scorpion, I looked into the IC Realtime and it seems pretty good. It has good reviews here from you and others. I just need to find out a little more about it.

 

Thanks

[rory 0]

Pretty inexpensive actually, for just 8 channels.

Always cheaper if you build it yourself as well.

 

But, if you have no experience with building PCs then you will want to buy a DVR pre built.

[kmb997 0]

I guess I will need to shop around. Just grabbing a couple of quick prices off the internet, for the parts you suggested, comes to a good bit of money. I probably don't need the quad core or the 4GB of ram so maybe it isn't that much. I'll check into it.

 

Do you think the GV-2008 is any better or worse than the IC Realtime?

[WizCam 0]

I installed a DV3 from Nuvico about 10 months ago and it has excellent video quality in realtime, and pretty good in playback mode. I also have it hooked up to the internet for a client, but he had to order a new T1 line in order to use it. His existing network had firewalls that prevented the DVR from being used on his network. Once that was done it was easy setup. I setup the client's laptop to enable him to view his facility from anywhere. I setup the event logs to email him at certain times of the day after business hours if there was motion detected and if there was power loss or video loss. He has used his verizon wireless card in the mountains to view his office in the middle of no where.

 

The only couple of things about it that I personally found negative was the price, and the complexity for the average person to use. It was a 4 camera port unit and I really had no margin for marking up the price. I made my money mostly on labor. Shipping cost chewed up some of the profit also. I also had to come back and create a cheat sheet and explain each menu, as the client was a brilliant business man, but technically challenged.

 

I find that less expensive entry level consumer models are simple to use and really easy to teach the user how to operate. Maybe the playback quality isn't perfect, but in most applications it is good enough to satisfy the requirements of the end user.