Camera Suggestions

[kmb997 0]

Hi, I want to start installing my first cctv system, but could use alot of help before I waste my money on cameras that will not work. I plan on getting a 8 channel DVR, but only setting up a couple of cameras for now. I want one camera on the front right of house, one by the front door, one facing down the left side of house, one facing across back yard, one facing down right side of house.

 

I know there are different fields of view and different kinds of cameras. This is where I need help. One camera needs to see across the entire front yard about 75'L x 35'D or should I put two cameras criss crossing the front yard? One camera by the front door to see who is there. One camera facing down the side of house with an area around 85'L x 15'W. One across the back yard around 70'L x 50'D or should I put two cameras criss crossing the back yard? One down side of house around 40'L x 15'W.

 

I would like the cameras to be true day/night color cameras. I also don't want big noticeable cameras or ir if I don't have to. The front right of house has halogen motion lights. The left front of house has street lighting. The left side of house has some street lighting. The back yard has halogen motion lights and street lighting, and the right side of house has some street lighting and halogen motion lighting. I want these cameras for security purposes. To be able to identify someone who is not supposed to be on my property. I'm not that interested on what's going on next door, pretty much just the perimeter of my property and within. Could use some suggestions on brand names, bullet vs dome vs ir vs varifocal or fixed, what types of lens, what types of cameras, just any help I can get is really appreciated.

 

Thanks

[scorpion 0]

What you really need to do is to hire a local company to come out, and do a site survey, have them select the cameras, and have them do the installation.

 

Trying to save some money, and do it yourself? Oh boy! I get to start a new novel!!

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=48

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=42

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=41

 

If you are selecting bullet cameras then here is what I recommend. This is not scientific, and it is only for reference, and the environment is going to dictate the equipment more so than the camera product.

 

For night time use, and you are using inexpensive bullet cameras then you will need to measure from where you think you are going to mount the camera, and measure the distance to where you want to capture video. Take this measurement, and double it for the IR distance.

 

If I measure from the camera out to 15 feet then a 30 foot IR camera should work.

 

You do not want someone standing at the 30 foot mark as the IR level goes down with distance. If you stand in front of the camera then your face is going to be washed out from the IR illuminators. If you stand at 30 feet I doubt that you will see anything. At 15 feet this should give you decent (not perfect nighttime video). If you measured 60 feet from the camera then you need a serious camera! You will need something like 120 feet of IR.

 

There are several different kinds of IR LEDs. Some throw the IR wide, but not very far. Some throw the IR very far, and it is in a narrow beam, but you cannot see anything on the sides of the video, (think of a bright flashlight). What you will really want is to have a combination of the two. Now you can see to the left, and the right of your video, and you can see deep into the picture.

 

Lots of overhanging limbs, and bush to the left, and to the right is going to make the IR work better, as it has something to bounce off of. Just think about going to get the family picture. See how they have all of those "umbrellas" with lights in them? This is to bounce the light in to multiple directions, and if give a more realistic quality to the picture, and not like the crappy shot from the diposable camera with a flash!

 

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Before you do an installation buy yourself a camera that is varifocal from 4mm to whatever you can afford, (12mm is fine). Take a 13 color TV that has the yellow video input on the front, or the back (composite video), and hook up your camera to the TV. Now stand on a ladder, and hold the camera about where you want to mount it. Look at the TV. Are you happy??? Try various areas for mounting, you may surprise yourself! Do not forget to do this in the dark, and compare night time video with IR. You will want to start at the 4mm, or at a wide angle setting. You can see alot to the left, and to the right. Here is a problem that you may need to know. You cannot watch anything past 20 feet from the camera. At 4mm lens anything that is at 20 feet will actually appear farther away in the video then in reality!! To gain the peripheral vision we are "bowing" the video, and that is where things at a distance look even further. So much for facial recognition!!

 

Now zoom in to the 12 mm setting. You can see someone at the street side of your house, but you cannot see to the right of your yard, or to the left of your yard. Now you have tunnel vision!!

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! Now what do you do??

 

Try to find a happy medium. Try 6mm. You will not have the wide angle distortion, and you will not have tunnel vision either.

 

If you are going to have a 4 camera installation then remember that there are going to be "holes" in your surveillance system. Install the cameras to your advantage. Do you have a wall that has no windows, such as along the garage, or on the side of your house?? You may want to sacrifice putting a camera here so that you can use it somewhere else where it is needed. You will want to have two cameras for the front yard, and one in the back, and now you have to pick which side of the house you will put the fourth one!

 

Here is a trick that I do.

 

Imagine a house with a garage to one side (right), and the front door is in the center of the house. I will mount the camera just to the left of the front door, and I will aim it at the driveway. What I have is the view of the cars in the driveway, and I can see who approaches the front door. I cannot see who is standing AT the front door only who walked up to it. Some burglars will ring the front door to see if someone is home, then they go around back, and they break in. Do not mount past the IR distance of the camera, or you will not have video of someone around your cars at night!

 

 

 

On the side of the house that has a gate this is where you will want to put your camera. You have a great place to catch a facial shot! There is only one way in!!

 

If you do not have a fence then plant some trees, and some bushes to create a "choke" point where they have to walk along a certain path so that you can catch a facial shot. If you are in to wood working then make a "garden trellis" ( I call it a short fence) with some 2X4s, and some lattice. Now you can make a choke point.

 

If you feel that you have to hide the cameras then make a birdhouse, and hide the cameras inside! If someone is scouting your property then they will just think that you are a bird lover! You can hide cameras in a dog house also.

 

Another trick is to hide cameras behind screen material. You can paint the front side, but do not fill in the holes with the paint. You can make a frame for the screen, and you can mount it on the aframe of your house in the attic area. Now you can mount the camera behind the screen, and no one will be able to see it. Becareful as you do not rain water getting inside your attic. You may want to create louvers for the frame.

[kmb997 0]

I think I'm leaning towards some kind of camera with a varifocal lens. Do dome and bullet cameras come with varifocal lenses? Is the lens adjusted manually on the camera itself or can it be done by the DVR? I really don't want big cameras, preferably some that aren't noticeable. There is one side of my house that is darker than the rest. Is the IR with 940nm the only one that is not visible to the human eye? How long do IR leds last?

 

Thanks

[scorpion 0]

Yes Bullets, and Dome cameras come with vari focal lenses.

 

Vari focal lenses are great for down the road when your surveillance needs may change. With vari focal lenses then the camera can adjust to your new requirments, which makes your system very flexible, and adaptable.

 

In the cheaper models you will have to get up on a ladder, and you will have to manually change the settings.

 

Others can be controlled by Pelco protocall, but they are more expensive.

 

There are some cameras that can be controlled with a hand held "remote" that is wired back to the camera.

 

If you want to controll the camera with a DVR, then you want a DVR that can control a PTZ (Pan, Tilt, and Zoom) camera. The Camera will need to have Pelco protocall.

 

Now you can control the camera with the DVR, and you can control the camera remotely over the internet.

 

 

I would not worry about the time frame of how long IR LEDs will last. They last pretty long depending on the quality. There are some that may last over 10,000 hours.

 

All infrared is going to be invisible as it is out of our visible spectrum for our eyes to see.

 

The IR LEDs will put off a slight red glow. Not enough to notice, but you can see it on the cameras.

 

All you have to do is put on night vision goggles, and you can find every IR camera without even trying! Why even bother to hide them?

 

I would be more concerned about having vandal proof, then I would be about hiding them.

 

You can always hide the cameras in a birdhouse if you need too.

[kmb997 0]

Scorpion, I'm in New Orleans and our weather is pretty much the same as yours, in regards to humidity. What kind of cameras do you usually install?

[scorpion 0]

http://avssys.net/?s=product&sub=camera&cat=ir&p=vnd49ir

 

Also I install these:

 

http://eclipsecctv.com/ECL-599_security_camera.html

 

This is what I use on entry level residential installs. It is not a fantastic camera, but for the price it does what it needs to do.

 

I prefer the VND49IR camera as it is waterproof, vandal resistant, and it is varifocal 4mm - 9 mm. I like this one very much as it has 50 feet of IR.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Guest

[kmb997 0]

Do you have any problems with cameras fogging up?

[jeffpack1957 0]

Want the camera's visible as a deterent, or hidden?

Box camera's and enclosure's are very visible.

 

I have Samsung SDC-415's (day Night) and with just abit of

area lighting (and sens up) they are a very good day night camera

covering easily areas larger than yours for not big money.

 

Contrary to the group opinion here, installing a system isnt a big deal.

System selection is.

 

To the plus side, if you have a system installed, you have technical support. If you can wing it on your own, then save the money.

 

Do you want really good motion detection, or so so.

 

I've found most DVR's covering a field of view as big as yours and larger, have poor motion detection. I had to go with external motion sensors

(and they arent cheap), but they'll really tell you if someone is around.

 

There's alot to learn here on this site if you take the time to read it.

[kmb997 0]

I don't mind the cameras being visible, but I just don't want something huge and noticeable from 20' away. From what I've been reading, box cameras with lens seem to be the best, but I don't like the look of them and I don't want to have to buy an enclosure for it. I will need one camera to be vandal proof and that is on the side of my house with the least amount of light. I'm still trying to decide if I need IR cameras. I read somewhere earlier that I can buy a lux meter, but then I also read that most camera manufacturers specs are BS. I haven't installed a system yet, but I've done other wiring projects around the house without too much trouble. I agree with you that system selection is harder than installing with all the different products out and not many places locally to test them out. Do you have any recommendations for a DVR? I will look into the Samsung you suggested.

 

Thanks

[kmb997 0]

Jeffpack, I looked into the SDC-415 and they have pretty good specs for a good price. Are these cameras that good? Everyone keeps saying you get what you pay for. What housing would you suggest for this camera for outdoor and weatherproof?

[rory 0]

Jeffpack, I looked into the SDC-415 and they have pretty good specs for a good price. Are these cameras that good? Everyone keeps saying you get what you pay for. What housing would you suggest for this camera for outdoor and weatherproof?

 

Looks like they use Sens Up and DSS meaning to get low lux the video will probably need to be slowed down. Doesnt look like its a True Day Night camera either .. meaning no IR Cut Filter, least going by the specs .. but then again, you get what you pay for. . its cheap, but gotta be better than neverfocus

 

Note though, if you just want plug and play, do not buy a Box camera. Box cameras require more elaborate setup in most cases. And yes, they require larger housings which will be noticeable. If the area is very dark, you will also require additional IR or artificial light.

[kmb997 0]

Nevermind about the Samsung. I've seen alot of threads about day/night cameras around here, so I will look into brands to look at. Do you have any suggestions on vandal proof domes?

[rory 0]

Vandal Proof Domes, most are not that weatherproof, so must be placed under an eave, or sealed very well. Sanyo, Panasonic, GE (Color or BW only), Nuvico (havent used but specs are good), Personally never really found a Day Night Vandal Dome that impressed me, I like the GE Color and BW vandal Domes, but when it comes to day night I would try anything buy a dome personally. Note that domes wont see as much in low light as a decent day/night box camera either, even with IR cut filters and lower lux night modes.

 

Honestly you will pay double the cost of a decent Day Night IR Bullet, for a Decent Day Night Vandal Dome. If you dont mind the cost, then look at Panosonic and Sanyo, otherwise just take a look at a True Day Night IR bullet, the specs are typically the same from one manufacturer to the next and they are all OEMs. Eg. Nuvico, Eclipse, etc.

 

If the area doesnt particularly need color in the day, just get an exview BW bullet camera, KT&C have one, it will see decent in low light, if its pitch dark though you will need IR. Just use color where there is alot of light, will save you a bundle, then put the Day Night bullets where you need both color and BW. There are also Color/IR bullets (no IR Cut filter) for almost half the cost of the True Day Nights, can place them in areas of lower importance also, and still get IR.

[kmb997 0]

Thanks Rory. I would like all cameras to be color and true day/night. Most of the outside of my house is lit by streetlights and halogen motion lighting. I don't know if the sides with only street lighting is enough light for decent cameras? Are there any box cameras and housing with heaters that aren't really big? Do you think a day/night weatherproof bullet would work better? The weather here is crazy. One day it's hot, the next it's cold. One day all the windows are fogged up on my car and the next it's not. I don't know what affect this would have on the cameras. I want high end cameras but I don't think they are necessary for a residential setup. I don't mean to keep this going, but I don't want to make bad purchases and be disappointed.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

Thanks Rory. I would like all cameras to be color and true day/night. Most of the outside of my house is lit by streetlights and halogen motion lighting. I don't know if the sides with only street lighting is enough light for decent cameras? Are there any box cameras and housing with heaters that aren't really big? Do you think a day/night weatherproof bullet would work better? The weather here is crazy. One day it's hot, the next it's cold. One day all the windows are fogged up on my car and the next it's not. I don't know what affect this would have on the cameras. I want high end cameras but I don't think they are necessary for a residential setup. I don't mean to keep this going, but I don't want to make bad purchases and be disappointed.

 

Looks like you have plenty of light for decent Day/Night cameras to work... IR based bullets will not give you more of anything, unless if you are pushing high end versions, which will cost you a fortune...

 

You can have 10" outdoor housing with wall mount, heater and blower that will do this trick... and it is small enough yet ecstatically pleasing...

 

As for camera and lens combination.. few suggestions at my end...

 

Look at Sanyo D/N camera model #VCC-4794 that is very cost effective and delivers the goods... and IR lens, and I will recommend either Computar or Tokina... Combined with this camera and the lens, you will have very good picture quality...

 

If you want one of the best in the market, instead of using this Sanyo model, go with Panasonic WV-CP484.. it will cost you roughly $200 more, but now you have the best of the best... well at least that is what I know.

 

Besides having excellent picture quality, what DVR do you have in mind for this setup? If your DVR can not take advantage of such camera equipment, the whole point will be mute...

 

Another option to keep under consideration - make sure whatever equipment that you select at the end, they all come with three years warranty - PERIOD. This way not only you are getting excellent hardware, but also very good warranty just in case.. After all, it is electronics and it is never if such hardware will fail, rather when...

 

Let us know what you think.. and if need more info, either we can place it in this post or PM...

[kmb997 0]

I will look into the Sanyo you suggested. Does it have a mechanical cut filter? I really don't want IR cameras, but just wasn't sure if one was needed. Do you have any suggestions on weatherproof bullets that compare to the Sanyo or the Panasonic, or are they just that much better than bullets? I haven't decided on a DVR. The nvdv4 was suggested in another thread, but I'm still looking. Any suggestions?

Thanks

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

I will look into the Sanyo you suggested. Does it have a mechanical cut filter? I really don't want IR cameras, but just wasn't sure if one was needed. Do you have any suggestions on weatherproof bullets that compare to the Sanyo or the Panasonic, or are they just that much better than bullets? I haven't decided on a DVR. The nvdv4 was suggested in another thread, but I'm still looking. Any suggestions?

Thanks

 

Generally speaking, I do not like bullet cameras..

 

Without going into all the specs of this Sanyo's camera, this pup works very well... I know we can analyze specs until we turn blue, does not really mean anything unless if you used it before... and I and others used it in numerous times.. sometime experience pays some sort of dividends

 

Here is a url for Computar IR day/night lenses that will do the trick for this camera - http://www.cbcamerica.com/cctvprod/computar/vari/index.html

 

Decide which lens could work for you and that is it..

 

As for the DVR, go embedded or stand alone systems, non-windows or non-linux based... simple to use, easy to program and it very cost effective without all the bells and whistles, which most of the users do not even use.

[kmb997 0]

What is the best vandal-proof dome camera? Doesn't have to be IR, but true day/night, good low light level, and varifocal lens that is able to be controlled by a DVR would be nice to have?

Thanks