Looking for 16 Channel 480 / 480 DVR System

[gold007eye 0]

Can anyone help me with what system to use? This is going to be for a convienent store w/ 24/7 Day/Night recording.

 

What I need is something that will record 16 channels (Individually at Full Screen, not in Quad Mode, etc.) @ 30 FPS per Camera/Channel. I have been doing a lot of research, but want to make sure I get the right system. I am looking for something between $1,000 - $1,500 w/ 1TB HDD.

 

I would like to have it as a Standalone DVR and Preferrably with the Loop Out feature, and DVD-R/CD-R backup capabilites.

 

These are systems I am contemplating between. Any suggestions, comments, experience with, etc?

 

the (Brackets are the dotcom addresses as I can't post links yet.

 

CCTVDVR16 (WorldEyeCam)

WAVC-AVC787D (WorldEyeCam)

CL-16 (CloseOutCCTV) ---> I am really leaning towards this one.

 

Any help would or other suggestions / sites where I can buy your suggested DVR(s) would be greatly appreciated.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

I think Rory can come up with sold recommendation on this...

[rory 0]

Hopefully someone else might have some recommendations. Thats a pretty low budget for a real time stand alone DVR, especially with 1TB. Honestly cant say I know of any real time DVRs for that range.

 

I take it that the 30fps per camera would need to also be in 640x480/720x480, not just 320x240? Many DVRs that do suggest they do Real time typically do that only in 320x240. There are a few that will do it, but they cost.

[Scruit 0]

The DVR at CloseoutCCTV is 30fps/ch at 720/240. If you're happy with realtime at CIF then go for it.

 

I just ordered a CPCam CPD507 which is realtime in CIF and 120fps (16ch) in D1 - I'll be using D1 mode. When a motion event occurs the max framerate is given to the channels that see motion wile the remaining channles stay at the manual record rate (I'll use 1fps per channel). ie on a 16ch 120fps system, if 4 channels see motion at the same time then they will get 27 fps which is close enough to realtime that it won't make a difference. Although the 507 allocate the 120fps in 4 banks of 30 fps - ie channel 1-4 share 30fps, 5-8 share 30fps etc. You have to be careful to assign any cameras that are likely to see motion at the same time to different banks.

 

Ie I have 4 cams on the front of the house - if they were setup at channels 1-4 then they would share 30fps and get 7.5fps each with the remaining 90fps as wasted capacity. Instead I'll assign those 4 cams as channels 1, 5, 9 and 13 so they get 27fps each assuming the other cameras in each bank stay at the non-motion 1fps rate.

 

Even if all cams see motion, that 's still 7.5fps - good enough for what I'm doing. I'm not gonna see motion on all channels unless my house is surroudned by an angry mob. One or two burglars coming to the house shoudl not have more than 4 cams tripped at any moment.

 

 

 

If your application requires 30fps at D1 24x7 and all channels are going to see motion at the same time all the time then $1k-1.5k is not the price point you are going to wind up with.

 

Additionally, assume $300 for the 1TB hard drive if you can get a DVR that can accept and initialze a new HD itself and you get hte HD from Microcenter or CompUSA etc. Assume even more if the HD must be pre-initialized by the manufacturer. Having said that, 30fps on 16 channels 24x7 will probably chew through a 1TB hard drive in a couple of days so you'd need an external drive array if you need any decent amount of history.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Guest

[rory 0]

Scruit, you mean 320x240 right?

Either way, it uses that generic network software that tends to crash alot.

Its not the AvTech model (CL-16MPEG4) incase you got it mixed up.

 

There are no exact specs to say whether it records in D1 or VGA on all channels at 30fps though I highly doubt it does being a very budget DVR.

 

Im amazed at how the specs for these DVRs really do make them out to be the best thing since the landing on the moon. (whoops, mars)

[Scruit 0]

Scruit, you mean 320x240 right?

Either way, it uses that generic network software that tends to crash alot.

Its not the AvTech model (CL-16MPEG4) incase you got it mixed up.

 

There are no exact specs to say whether it records in D1 or VGA on all channels at 30fps though I highly doubt it does being a very budget DVR.

 

Im amazed at how the specs for these DVRs really do make them out to be the best thing since the landing on the moon. (whoops, mars)

 

No, I mean 720x240. I know that CIF and D1 are not consistent terms between manufacturers, but ???x240 is closer to CIF than D1. I usually assume CIF is ~320x240 and D1 is ~640x480 or 720x480. Of course I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination.

 

CL D16

Compression rate: Basic: 12 KB (720x240 NTSC)

 

Normal: 16 KB (720x240 NTSC)

 

Enhanced: 20 KB (720x240 NTSC)

 

Fine: 24 KB (720x240 NTSC)

 

Super Fine: 28 KB (720x240 NTSC)

 

 

Record speed: Up to 480 fps

 

I'll bet you a dollar that 480 is only in Basic.

[rory 0]

Ok, but check this, it is 240 FPS live viewing.

 

720x240? Perhaps, though its compressed to death at that, and also Im not too quick to believe the specs on these OEM DVRs, most times the specs are incorrect, in other words that may still be in 320x240.

 

Yes I would also say that 720x240 is more like 2 or 3 CIF than D1.

 

I mean, not a bad DVR though for the price, might try one myself

Only thing is that I had bad experiences with that Generic Network software.

Maybe it has changed since then though.

[Scruit 0]

Ok, but check this, it is 240 FPS live viewing.

 

720x240? Perhaps, though its compressed to death at that, and also Im not too quick to believe the specs on these OEM DVRs, most times the specs are incorrect, in other words that may still be in 320x240.

 

 

Yeah, I figure anything x240 might as well be CIF.

 

That 240fps live view was weird also - it can record faster than it can display to screen? Really? So does that mean you can't replay the 16x view to a VCR or capture card at 480fps?

 

I dunno. A little light on the spec sheet. Didn't see anyting about pre-event buffer either - that's something that is kicking my butt right now because you can walk right past one of the closer cameras and be in and out of shot in about a second - and by the time the motion sensing picks up you're already almost out of shot. Same problem with the license plate cam - you can drive right through shot if you are quick enough and you won't be captured. I have a second 4ch on the loop-out of the 3 face cameras and the license plate camera - it's motion sensing is faster to respond and it's got abetter framerate but still not great.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Guest

[rory 0]

I wonder what their Dealer price on that DVR is like

[Scruit 0]

I wonder what their Dealer price on that DVR is like

 

And did they ever sell it for 1499 before they dropped it to 999? Unless they are taking a massive loss at 999 then 1499 was one heck of a markup.

[gold007eye 0]

Thanks for all the replies. Could you possible explain the difference between CIF & D1?

 

In all reality I need something so that if an event is captured (say a robbery, theft, vandalism, etc.) I can make out what was going on and some details. Or as another example if I have a cam on the register; I can make out what the employee is doing.

 

So those systems I showed you are basically crap or?

 

Any suggestions system wise? Right now I am not going to be allocating all 16 slots. At most probably 8, but I was trying to plan ahead in case I wanted to add any other cams later on.

 

How can I tell what exactly the Specs really mean when it comes to recording quality / screen size?

 

Also what compression method is the best to go with? MJPEG, JPEG2000, .H284, or MPEG4(+)?

[Scruit 0]

Thanks for all the replies. Could you possible explain the difference between CIF & D1?

 

In all reality I need something so that if an event is captured (say a robbery, theft, vandalism, etc.) I can make out what was going on and some details. Or as another example if I have a cam on the register; I can make out what the employee is doing.

 

So those systems I showed you are basically crap or?

 

Any suggestions system wise? Right now I am not going to be allocating all 16 slots. At most probably 8, but I was trying to plan ahead in case I wanted to add any other cams later on.

 

How can I tell what exactly the Specs really mean when it comes to recording quality / screen size?

 

Also what compression method is the best to go with? MJPEG, JPEG2000, .H284, or MPEG4(+)?

 

 

CIF and D1 are approximate image sizes - I say approximate because there is no strict standard that all manufacturers stick to.

 

CIF is approximately 320x240, and D1 is approximately 720x480. Of course the image quality is product of the system as a whole, not just of the DVR - a low res camera will give a low res image even on a hi-res DVR etc.

 

The specs I look for first are framerate by resolution. By this I mean a DVR may quote 480fps over 16 channels, but that's usually CIF only - meaning the low res image. 120fps over 16 channels in D1 seems to be about normal for the lower-end DVRs right now.

 

If a CIF image is good for you then fine. I use CIF in my car Dashcam because I only need to show what cars did, I'm not trying to identify the driver or license plate etc. I need the smooth framerate show show preicesly who moved where and when.

 

For my house I want the opposite - high quality image for identifying a person by face or license plate - and the framerate is less of a concern because if I show someone kicking my door in then that's good enough for a burglary conviction (hopefully!) Even then, you can usually adjust settings to give certain channels a better framerate under alarm/motion conditions.

 

It's all about your application. What crime are you trying to prove? what crime are you trying to prevent? How much $$$ will you lose if that crime occurs. ie Does the cost of the system exceed the sum of "your potential losses in a burglary" and "insurance rate hike after a burglary" and "insurance discount for having CCTV" etc.

 

For a home user their exposure is usually about $500 in deductable then probably 20% of the value of the property in depreciation in the settlement check. The burglary that prompted me to install CCTV cost me about $3100 in actual unreimbursed losses. It makes little sense to spend more than that on a CCTV. This is why I DIY with budget equipment. All-told I'm still less than $3k into the system even after 5 years of evolution.

 

A business owner will likely have a much greater exposure to loss, or may be trying to prove crimes that require very high framerate (ie employee shorting the register). It's all relative.

 

Very few DVRs are "bad" (to me, 'bad' = doesn't work, not low specs). They are just aimed at different user segments. Budget DVRs with lower quality images and/or lower framerates are aimed as home users and generally work out fine. More expensive DVRs are aimed at business users who's exposure is greater and the types of crime they are trying to prevent demand a greater feature set. Why would a home user by a DVR with POS integration? etc

 

For all these reasons, you need an experienced installer to help you weigh the factors.

[crirvine 0]

Mr. Gold007eye

In the real world 1TB hard drive is 1/3rd your budget.

A good quality capture card with your specs is over your budget.

Now if you can get a free computer and quality monitor for free that will will work with a quality capture card you might be in luck.

Please read some other post and tag lines YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

 

The price that you are looking to spend is more suited to seeing who is at the door of a home or what the children are doing in the yard.

This is not a security system for a 24/7 store.

 

I go into places all the time that wants a system like you that want to ID the robber or pickout counterfit money and that is just not going to happen.

All of us here in the fourm have customers that know what they want in a system call in a pro to design a system that will suit their needs for years to come.