how much for 16 camera installation

[texasdyme 0]

Just got offered an installation job for a small store. I have no idea what to charge.

 

The owner just bought 16 cameras with DVR and wants it install. He already has 8 cameras in the store and 2 outside. He's not happy with existing setup and wants to either add to the existing or replace all of them.

 

How much should I charge for a job like that. Do I charge per hour, per cameras or just one price.

 

your help will be appreciated.

[able1 0]

Absolutly the best for all would be T&M.

 

That way you won't come up on the short side if you run into any problems.

 

Good luck.

[scorpion 0]

The fact that he bought the camera system on his own indicates several things:

 

1 He is looking for the cheapest all the way around. This is the same kind of customer that when things go wrong (no matter who is a fault) he will blame you, and he will not pay you until things are rectified to the way he says that they are supposed to be. He will blame you to hell, and back, and he will bad mouth you to everyone even if it has nothing to do with you for his camera system woes.

 

This is the customer that you want to have everything in writing prior to touching the equipment.

 

A Who is responcible for the equipment should it not work at the time of install. You are just an installer, you did not sell him the equipment, and you cannot replace it, and you do not provide a warranty. (if he is that much of a spend thrift then he will threaten to sue you for the product replacement.... blah blah you will hear from my attorney.....blah blah).

 

B This is the same kind of customer who learns as he goes, and changes specs in mid flight, and then demands/expects you to do it the new way.

His argument is: that is why he bought the system in the first place was to perform ______(fill in the blank)(ie provide color video in pitchdark of a license plate at one mile {yes, it is an exaggeration, but close to the truth}). This is where the paper works saves your day. The specs say that you will install a 30 foot IR camera to watch an area aprox from 15 from the area where the camera is mounted. Then when the customer wants to see in complete darkness at 60 feet then you can show him the contract, and that the cameras are an upgrade at $XXX.XX, and Installation is extra, plus milelage to come back as the new camera is not on site, and has to be ordered, (or he is stuck with the equipment that he bought, and it is to be mounted as per contract).

 

Now you just have to figure how to get your money paid to you, and do not hold any of his equipment for "ransom" as you are stealing, and he has a receipt to prove it. If he locks you out, and you have tools, or other items then you cannot break in to the building to get your stuff back, as that is breaking, and entering. One way around this situation is to have a key issued to you in writing. As a key holder you have the right to enter a building, and the police cannot arrest you.

 

Yes! Paper work will save your day!

 

2 He is an idiot, and anything that anyone tells him he will believe. This is the kind of customer that always answers back "that sounds like a good idea"! He has no clue, and can be snowballed by another "dealer" about specs on products that may all be hype, and not perform as stated, and you will be blamed for the equipment not doing what it is supposed to do, such as seeing in color, in complete darkness at one mile, and give you a license plate number. Check the specs on the equipment. Put the IR cameras to the test at night before you do the install!!!!! What you see is what you get!

 

3 This is a knowledgeable customer who likes a good value just like anybody else. They may feel bad because they did not buy from you, but they saved 75% off of MSRP!! They appreciate a good installer, and they are willing to pay for it. They will expect you to be very knowledgeable, and to be able to spot product specs that may not stack up, or you will know how to overcome these limitations. They will expect you to come back, and tweak the system in a week, or two to make sure everything is up to par. They will expect you to come out immeaditly should something go wrong that was part of your installation process. If it is a warranty issue then he will pay you for your time to help take down the equipment, and repackage it, and contact the vendor to get an RMA, and reinstall it when it comes back. He will refer other customers to you.

 

 

Get as much in writing up front as possible!!

 

Things to watch out for.

 

This is a quotation on the goods named, subject to the conditions noted below: (Describe any conditions pertaining to these prices and any additional terms of the agreement. You may want to include contingencies that will affect the quotation.)

The project must be paid in full at the time of completion regardless of the following:

1. Power is available for the equipment

2. Internet is available for networked equipment

3. Status of customer-owned equipment (IE VCR's)

If wires cannot be run through attic space then wires will be wrapped around the outside of the house and labor charges will apply.

Wires run through conduit and/or buried underground will be an additional charge.

 

To accept this quotation, sign here and return: _____________________________________

 

 

 

They do not pay you as the system is not operational.

They put the DVR in a spot where there is no electricity, and they are waiting for an electrician to show up, and install a socket at the DVR. This is not your problem, and they need to pay up, and you need to have this in writing to protect you.

 

They want networked equipment, and they are holding the check. You do not have control over ATT, or Bright house, or who ever. If the customer does not have an internet for networking this is not your responcibility.

 

If the customer does not have an object that would make the system operational, but they do not have the device, then they need to pay up as you are not the vendor, and they need to get it prior to the installation. You will be more than glad to come back (for a price) to make sure everything is working when they buy said device.

 

Customers think that wiring is wiring, and they payed you to wire it. Now you have to do something unaccounted for such as trench, and bury, or enclose it in conduit ect.

 

Some customers demand that they see no wiring then they forget to tell you this is a two story building with no way to run wires. If you can tear up a rug, and cut in to the floor then you are good to go. Do not do it without writing in advance, and who will fix the holes, and redo the rug to tighten it to the wall. If you have ran wiring for a while then you may be able to run wires where no one else would be able to. Look for AC duct work that goes from a HVAC closet on the second story that goes to the vent in the ceiling of the first floor. You can get wiring up the HVAC closet in to the attic of the second story. You can hide wiring behind crown moulding. Now who is responcible to rehang the crown moulding? I am not a wood worker, and I will not do it. They are much better off hiring a pro to do it, or to be prepared to do it themselves. Some customers take pride in the fact that they were the ones who installed it in the first place. (I love these customers)!! You can hide wiring behind floor moulding.

 

You might get lucky by removing can lights from a ceiling to run rods, and pull wire through the ceiling!

 

I am sorry to ramble on, and on. I have more to tell, but I think you get the point.

 

Good luck! I hope this job gives you many referals!!

[securitysys 0]

Don't charge per hour, if for some reason it takes you longer then what you told him as an estimate he'll probably be mad.

 

Tell the customer point blank, I don't know what type of equipment you purchased, I don't care what type of equipment you purchased. I'm here to run wires, hook it up, and leave. If the equipment doesn't work, it's not my problem, if the equipment malfunctions, it's not my problem, if you don't like the system, it's not my problem. Now, if the cabling goes bad, the crimps fall off, or you have a leak from a hole I drilled, that IS my problem. Think of me like an electrician, I run the cables all the way up to the power outlet, if the TV you plug in doesn't work, I'm not buying you a new TV!!

 

Tell him he'll get X amount of training on the system, you'll warranty your work for X amount of time, and that for everything over X you will charge X amount. Again, because you haven't worked with the system, do not charge him per hour, because you may spend an hour on the phone with tech support and he may feel cheated because your charging him X dollars per hour while your simply on the phone. Don't short change your self either, just give him a flat rate, if it takes u 5 min, or 5 hours, it's that rate. Even if it comes out to the same thing the customer will be more happy.

 

For the installation, estimate how long it will take you X how much you want to make per hour (I pay my contractors $40 per hour in city, $50 out + Gas), you can probably charge the customer $75, and then add 20%.

 

So if you think it will take you 10 hours at $75 an hour charge him $750 and then add an additional $150 to make it $900. This will cover any mishaps you may run into.

 

That pricing is assuming your licensed, insured, and bonded.

 

Best of luck!

[texasdyme 0]

thanks for the advice. those are great feedbacks

[scorpion 0]

I depend on referrals, so I have to tone down the harshness, but I have to agree with securitysys on his post.

 

He is right about that.

 

There is a trick that I do when I am charging by the hour. I will tell the customer that it will take about 6 hours to install the product at $XX.xx per hour. I will give them 4 hours of free labor. If I run over my time frame, and it takes me 8 hours, then the customer does not have to shell out more money. If the install runs more than 10 hours then they are charged the additional hours.

 

This information is sent during the bid process. I then charge $100.00 for a site survey. If they hire me then I give them the $100.00 back when they purchase a system, or in the case of this post when they hire you to do the install.

 

I like site surveys in advance. Do they have power where they are going to locate the DVR? Do they have an exposed ceiling, or is it a drop ceiling.

 

I like to find my travel paths for my wires. Will I be drilling through 18 inches of concrete because of a poured wall? Is the building a block, or wood design. What color caulk will I need to bring? Where is the home run going? Can I get my wires there? Where are the cameras going? Where the customer wants them, and what the camera can do are always worlds apart!

 

I have a feeling this customer is going to be very happy with your install, and he will be recommending you to others!

[rory 0]

depends where you live, down here it should be twice as much as in texas as everything costs twice as much

 

Anyway, I normally charge by camera type .. $75 for a bullet camera (varies), $150 for a vandal dome outdoors, $450 for a PTZ, $250 for a day night with Infrared Camera (eg. EX-82, as it takes several trips back and forth), and more (or less) depending on the camera location. etc

[Grimgrak 0]

Wow you guys must have dealt with justa bout every type of customer.

[scorpion 0]

LOL!

 

You learn as you get ripped off as an installer/dealer.

 

But then again there are customers who get ripped off, and they are hard noses the next time they deal with an installer/dealer.

[cybrmartian 0]

I started off Installing surveillance systems in the US Military about 12 years ago now I have my own business and let me tell you if you are getting into the business make sure everything is very specific as to what you are to do and what the customer is to do. Little things the customer may think you are going to do can end up cutting into your profit margin a lot when they come and ask you why you did not do something they THOUGHT you were going to do. As has been said make sure your responsibilities are in writing as much as possible I give every customer a Proposal that includes a decscription of all the Item they purchased from me and how many of each with accurate descriptions of them as well and sometimes pictures and bruchures if possible. Good manufacturers such as Bosch and such have a brochure for just about every product they make. This assures you that the customer is very clear on what they are getting as far as product goes.

 

Along with that Description I also give another Page or pages depending on the job that spells out everything in the installation and this help my techs with the install as well. I pretty much lays out every part of the labor. And when bidding out an install after you have done a few you will know what it is going to take to get 16 or 32 camera wires from the roof of a flat Roof cement block shopping center into the tiny little closet they want you to install the whole system in while standing on your head and make it look good as well. In this list I list everything from specifics on runnings any special cable run such as wire running in conduit, Also mounting of the cameras, focusing the cameras, hooking up the power, installing compression connectors or crimp type I am specific on these things so the customer can NOT come back after the install and say "I thought you were going to use Twist on Connectors?" list as much as you can. Also make sure you state that any additionals are Extra such as they want a cable ran a certain way after you begin and now you have to Drill through a 24" Solid concrete wall and use conduit and take more time.

 

I usually have a sections of things they need to provide such as Power at the DVR/Camera Power location, and any thing they may need to do. Any network connections at the location be specific if they want thier "Computer Guy" to do that instead of us. Also on that note make sure you get the phone number of thier "Computer Guy" or IT department and talk to him as well to make sure he will be vailable when you need him and that he knows what you are talking about when you say I need port 3550 forwarded to the DVR's IP. I have run into some real winners there some of the customers have a computer guy that is only good at formatting and re-installing windows and can only set up a network if he can use the automated network setup in windows. I could go on for hours about that. If they do not have an IT person it is a good chance for you to do it yourself that way there is NO Excuse if you are comfortable doing that. I hate people who will not give you the check because you are waiting for thier IT to learn how to do thier job.

 

Last but not least I give the customer and Invoice and they sign and date all three forms before anything is done at all. That way when something falls through you can show them the paper they signed and agreed to and you can be done with your job and go on to the next. Sorry about being long winded.

 

As far as pricing the job out If it is just an install which I have only done one Install only quote but it involved taking down equipment I already installed at one location and installing it at another location (Ran all new cable of course on that one). I usually always give one set price for the installation as I pretty much know how long it will take after looking at the location and you always run into something just be prepared and have the right tools. I have installed 8 Camera systems in 4 hours and had 8 camera system take 2 days always err on the side of caution when estimating time if you think you MAY be able to get it done in one day tell them 2 days so they are not too mad when you have to come back the next day but if you get done early they are normally happy.

 

Another Caution NEVER use THIER labor force under no means always turns out to be a rpoblem when they arrange anything such as labor, equipment or anything.

 

And never let the customer HELP you install. I quoted a job out 16 cameras installed. We got to the site we were going to install this system in 2 days with 4 guys working when we got there the customer came out with his guy and procedded to tell us what to do. Not a good situation at all never let that happen trust me he thought we were just going to be his labor force. My crew, My checks pay them, they drove my Vehicles there I tell them what to do and take resposibility for them. Customer do not always know the best ways to do things either or how to install the system or they would have just done it themselves. That job ended up taking 2 extra days and 1,500 feet more cable because I was constantly having to tell him to leave us to do the install. He was trying to monitor how much cable was being run to each camera and wanted NO WASTE at all and figured he could save 500 feet of cable and have it knocked off the bill at the end. Well when I quote a system out I figure how much cable I need then add 10% and that is what they are quoted. You never know what you will run into and once you get up in the attic or find the double concrete block wall with a steel inner core you can't get through with a Plasma cutter and it is easier to go a diffrent route. To make a long story short he was surprised at the end when I added 2 more days of labor and 1,500 feet more of cable to the bill because HE helped and would not let the Pro's do it (Well maybe not pro's but I would like to think of myself as at least adequatly knowledgable). nightmare job!

 

In the end you need to Make the customer happy and if you have it in writing you will not have to take any money out of your wallet to do something not expected or quoted and you can explain that and offer to do it at an extra cost or if they throw a real fit at least get the cost of goods to do it. Word of mouth is the best advertising and I even got 5 more referrals off the Nightmare job above. It's Fun! and there is always 10% percent of your customers that make it more intresting.

 

 

Matt

North Central Florida

[scorpion 0]

I think we share the same clients!! LOL!!

[cybrmartian 0]

I am only about 2 hours away from you. Handle mainly Ocala/Gainseville area but sometimes venture over the crystal river on the east coast and Daytona one the west. Nothing down in your area as of yet enough local for me. Did install a 32 Camera system at a Game ranch in South Africa 2 years ago. Actually contracted the work out. Went over there for a few weeks to watch everything get installed and make sure things were done correctly. Intresting install really. They could not use Cables in the ground because of Distance First and Animals would dig them up and could not run them on Poles because Girraffs seem to be a little tall plus distance was also an issue. We went with RF Wireless and Erected 40 foot towers so to speak with Parabolic Dishes. At the Game lodge where everything was to be located for viewing and recording we erected another tower with all the recivers. You try to explain to an South African that normally only installs TV's that 15 degrees at 2 miles distance is a pretty wide range. Now you may ask was there electricity at the locations where the cameras were. Only at one location and that was the game lodge where the DVR sat. For power we used Stricly Solar power at each camera location with Infrared cameras in housing to protect them from Monkeys and they still have problems time to time. Never had a problem with power at any location at any time throughout the year I always like to err on the side of caution when it comes to that since you do not want them to lose transmitter or camera power between 5 and 6 AM because the power drained and the sun is not Up yet.

 

They use the system to monitor Animal patterns and locations and since this was a hunting lodge they actually make a DVD with the whole thing for each of thier customers. You want to talk about having to deal with some problems and issues and making sure all your planning is in order BEFORE things happen that was a good example. had to make sure the power supplies in everything was correct, Had to get everything in PAL instead of Normal NTSC for me. Had to contact thier goverment to make sure the Frequencies for the Transmitters were OK to use since even though we were in the middle of nowhere. Had to make sure I did not get eaten by any large hungry animals and Only drink Bottle water. There is not radio shack or anything like that there and closest town was a 6 hour drive and they did not have too much in the way of technology so to speak.

 

Enough rambling for me about that. For our next conversation we will thouroughly confuse the newbie to installation and talk about using sattelites (sp) to transmit secure encrytpted video signals half way around the world.

 

Matt