Security Camera to see mare foaling

[creekside 0]

I have a mare due to have her foal in the next month or so. I tried a wireless camera system with minimal success. I could see the mare but the image was pretty broken up. I need a good wired system. Costco has the quad camera etc. and I don't know what my minimal requirements should be.

 

The barn is 100 - 150 feet from the house. The barn is has tin sides. The light is minimal (at night I can leave lights on but horses are not that fussy for that), the temperature in the winter (now) can get to -20C to -30C but is more commonly -10C. In the summer it can get to +30C but normall more like +20 (if we're lucky!!).

 

I need to view an area of 12x20 feet.

 

How many cameras do I need, does the Costco cheap quad cam suffice? One guy I talked to said I should get a FAC-300 camera (2), and a AVC-711. That would cost around 250 USD. I live in Canada so there would be shipping on top. I'm looking to spend around 400 canadian dollars. Any ideas???

[VST_Man 1]

We've got Warm Bloods! Here is what I suggest. I purchased a flat monitor from the site below and added 2 IR (IR will provide a viewable scene in b/w) capable camera's. After the birth you can install this into your truck, horse trailer, and still get use from it. I have a KR F350 w/4h featherlight, which ends up being 60ft plus long. Nice to have a view off the back and more importantly inside the horse area while towing. I know that you will appreciate the comfort monitoring what is happening inside the trailer while towing.

 

If you want to save money, just purchase (1) IR capable camera with the field of view you need, 200ft. cable with connectors (power and video)already attached, connect it to your VCR, TV, and wait/record. Since this is a "temp" install I think you can lay the wire out on the ground til done? For the price of a camera and cable, you are up and running! Don't waste your money on Cosco type equipment. Wireless works if your are willing to spend more to get better quality. I would not suggest that. Weather inside the barn should be good enough to set-up your camera(s).

 

If you want to make this a perm install, I suggest running underground UTP cable with balun's. Pick a good DVR, camera's, and enjoy the views from the easy chair.

 

 

I have a 16 camera video-insight system installed here on our ranch with 10 cameras out on the property. Nice system, easy to interface with, and it always works!

 

Good luck with the foal. We've had ours these past 4 years and we are finally break'n them, ect. Ya hoooooo!

 

http://www.cctvimports.com/html/lcd.html

[creekside 0]

What is an IR? What type of system do you have for the 16 camera for the barn?

 

"UTP cable with balun's. Pick a good DVR, camera's, and enjoy the views from the easy chair."

 

Yikes! I don't know what that means. What is a DVR? I don't need to record what's happening, I need to see it live. What is a UTP cable with baluns? I'm so inexperienced with this I need the "Security system for dummies"!!

 

Thank you for your response!

[VST_Man 1]

sorry I spoke in the techno language. Habit. IR is InfaRed illumination. IR LED's, the illumination source when it gets dark, are mounted inside the camera housing. A IR camera automatically turns on IR as it gets dark. The camera also switches to black and white at night, not color. That's where IR illuminates the field of vision. There are many different types of IR illunimation; technology and money equal the best! IR illunimation does not turn day into night and you see everything; again, the better IR LED technology you buy the more you see, the farther you see. Purchase a LED camera that illuninates beyond your requirement to ensure you get the view you need. Also make sure you get a power supply included with the IR Camera. You can goto the sight I listed and buy it.

 

If you can hook up a video input to a VCR recorder you can connect a single camera to the VCR without any problems. Not that hard.

 

DVR is "Digital Video Recorder". Almost like a VCR, only it takes multiple video inputs and records them in a digital format that you can review.

 

The system I have is a (desktop type running Windows XP Pro) computer controlled digital camera system. Pretty much the middle of the road, state of the art technology.

 

I suggest that you connect a camera into your VHS recorded only because the signal/connectors that come from the IR camera require like connections. A VRC has those connections.

 

I did forget to mention one thing. You will need a special connector that convert the IR camera BNC connector to a RCA connector so that it can be connected to your VHS.

 

Buy the camera, cable, connector, and go for it! You can't break it? Opps, did I just say that?

 

Where are you located? I am in Beaufort SC.............Retired Marine!

[AVCONSULTING 0]

Checkout this site. It is a good end users site and has pretty much everything you will need.

 

www.supercircuits.com

[rory 0]

DVR: Recorder that Records Video to a hard drive in Digital Quality.

They come in various versions ranging from single channels to multiple channels, and PC versions to stand alone machines with non PC Operating systems. The multi channel versions can be quad, multiplexed, or real time recording depending on the DVR. Most come with an Ethernet connection for control over the network or internet with accompanying software.

 

PC versions generally are a standard PC running windows or linux, with PCI cards for the camera inputs. They are very flexible for hardware upgrades. In the event of a hardware failure you can generally fix it yourself, at least without sending it back to the manufacturer.

 

Stand Alone versions are generally machines with Embedded Real Time Operating Systems (microelectronics - such as those used in coffee machines, cellphones, etc), or embedded Linux. Embedded means the operating system is on the computer chip itself, such as the BIOS (black screen on start up) in a PC. It is generally more secure and more stable than a PC version such as Windows, but generally has fewer features. In higher quality versions it can cost more than a PC version, though in lower quality or lower end versions it can be alot less, with ofcourse alot less features. Hardware failures require the machine being sent back to the manufacturer.

 

Quad shows video in a 4 way screen, and records just what you are viewing. These tend to be lower resolution, and are normally the cheaper of all DVRs.

 

A multiplexer is a fast switcher that records each camera individually in full size. As it switches between each image, there will be slight delays in video recording of each camera, and setting the recording speeds, and depending on the DVRs total recording speed, the speed of recorded video will also be effected.

 

Real Time is 30 pictures per second and depends on the DVR make and model on whether you will get this or not. Some more expensive real time DVRs record 30pps on each camera individually, not multiplexed. These tend to come in 8 channel versions geared towards casinos and are not cheap. You can also get cheaper DVRs that will claim Real Time recording, such as 16 channels with 480 pps, though they are actually going to do that in only lower resolution modes, DVD quality (or highest) would generally record at half or less than their total recording speed (not real time) when using all channels.

 

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Why Infrared?

 

If your application has no light at night time, and you would like to see the picture, you will need Infrared Lighting. If your application has very little light at night time, and the camera does not see enough of the picture to pick up the presence of movement, then you will also benefit from Infrared Lighting. Infrared Lighting can save money on the cost of artificial lighting, and saves even more by utilizing photo cells for automatic shut down and turn on of IR lighting.

 

Infrared can be used in a variety of applications. They can be used for Gate surveillance, license plate capture, yard surveillance, and much more. View the wide range of real world examples by clicking on the links below.

http://www.extremeCCTV.com

http://www.bahamassecurity.com/ms/portfolio.asp

----------------------------------------------------

 

Day Night Cameras:

 

These are cameras that will switch from color, to Black & white in low light. Black & White is required for Infrared Lighting. Also make sure you purchase a Day Night camera with automatic Infrared Filter (IR cut Filter), for best color picture. This means the IR Cut Filter is on during the day, and off at night.

 

"Purpose of IR Filter in Color Cameras:

 

An IR filter – or IR cut filter - is a color filter blocking the infrared light. There are several good reasons for using an IR-cut filter. Using a color camera to achieve realistic colors in white light requires an IR-cut filter. The color spectrum seen by the human eye is quite limited compared to the spectrum seen by a CCD camera. Especially, in the near infrared region of the spectrum the difference in sensitivity is significant. This is important to know since many light sources, including the sun, emit infrared light.

 

A CCD color camera in daylight without an IR-cut filter will therefore see a significant amount of infrared light resulting in strange colors. Another reason for using an IR-cut filter is the limited color correction for many lenses. It is difficult to design imaging optics covering both the visible spectrum and the near infrared spectrum at the same time. Therefore, many lenses have different depth of focus for the visible and the infrared spectrum. Anyway, the IR-cut filter cuts away a significant amount of the overall collected light and thereby affects the sensitivity in a negative way. In general, color cameras are one factor less sensitive compared to monochrome (depending on the CCD chip). This is primarily due to the IR-cut filter. " - Info courtesy of Jai Camera Solutions

 

There are also Day/Night lenses designed for Professional Cameras (Box Type) which provide a better focus with infrared lighting. There are also many cameras that are all-in-ones with both the camera and infrared LEDs in one housing, such as an IR Bullet camera, or more advanced, ExtremeCCTV's line of IDN cameras:

(http://www.bahamassecurity.com/ms/infrared/)

[cctv_down_under 0]

Wow poor guy must be so confused, my two cents worth, I can imaginer you being happy with a wireless soluytion without having a direct line of sight and a really good quality equipent, so first you need to decide on Cable, you really have two choices here, either RG59 cable or Fibre optic cable, the RG59 you may be able to do your self but if the distance between camera and end point is say over 130Mtr you may need to amplify it witha powered box.

 

Amplification keeps the signal balanced, this means that runs over 130 Mtrs (oh and yes I know some cables are rated for more and some for less) can be amplified to keep the signal working for you, so picture quality is good, Purchasing Fibre Optic will require you to gets ome person to SPLICE it for you, Splicing is making joins in Fibre, why choose fibre, well fibre will not get any interfernce and will not require amplification, you will need a transmitter and reciever fior the fibre, your guy that you bring in to do the splicing can handle that for you, however if you use RG59 you will not need it.

 

Ir Illumintation really comes in several ways, the first is little kit cameras that have tiny led's in them and they will push out IR lighting, these are utterly useless for what you are trying to achieve, as the area they will illuminate will not be satisfactory for your requirements. The second lot are not built into cameras and are usually ina beam type aray, these can be excellent if used with a camera that supports IR light, but be carefull some animals are affected by IR lighting as they have an different sensitivities to us, alos if you choose IR lighting choose something with white light, otherwise you are going to have a bliding red glow that the poor horse will stare at!

 

Personally I would go for neither of them I would either choose Black and white camera because they see better in the dark or better still a Wide Dynamic camera or Day Night camera, Day night cameras are clour by day and BW by night, they do require lighting of some sort but not a lot of it, the wide Dynamic will try to keep it in Colour for most of the time but will be excellent at low light as well, both of these require low lighting, so you will haev to choose which would be less intrusive for your animal.

 

Ok so cables and camera sorted, with the temps you are looking at I would ask for a housing for the camera that has a little heater in it, this can be turned on or off, better still would be one that has an exhuast fan as well that can be turned on in summer. Try to get one that has a clear glass not a tinted glass as you may not have much lighting.

 

Lastly, you have two choices for viewing, the easiset would be to plug the cable into your telly where the Xbox or Playstation would normaly go or simply unplug the VCR input ionto your telly and plug the cable in there, or if your VCR supports it you could plug it into the Input on your VCR then simply choose the AV input on either your telly or your VCR depending on what you plugged it into, obviously the VCR would be better so you can record this magic moment.

 

Hope this helps..

 

PS we expect pictures

[creekside 0]

Ok, so day/night or wide dynamic camera -- got that part. I have looked at some with heaters but they are pricey!! In a normal year temperature would not be that big of a deal because the horses normally foal out in Spring where if temp was -10C I would fall off my chair. Normal temps that time of year are more like +10. So, what is going to happen if I don't have a heater and have a camera that goes to -10 and it gets colder than that? What happens to picture?

 

Cable -- what?? Fibre optics I don't think are a choice. Can't you just use coaxile cable??

 

To sum it up are you saying I need cable, a camera, and that's it? The camera plugs right into VCR/TV/COMPUTER??

 

P.S. Thank you all sooooo much this is such a weird situation. I bought the mare unbred (open) and had her ultrasounded in April 04 because I was going to breed her. As it turns out, that wasn't necessary. The previous owners do recall a certain amount of tomfoolary up until January 04. She was originally turned out in September with a couple of young men that apparantly found the old girl quite appealing. Anyway, horses gestation varies drastically from 320 - 365 days. So, take that variance, include a pregnancy date from September to January and we have a lot of room to play around (hahah). Anyway, needless to say, I MUST not miss the delivery as the foal will surely die in our cold winter climate. I need to see in the dark, a clear picture. I can have a couple low wattage lights on so as not to disturb her too much. Anyway, that's the history...

[Cooperman 0]

Hi creekside,

 

Lots of information so far, but just a few bits more to thoroughly confuse you.

 

Easy stuff first. Don't go wireless for this application - the ideal option is RG 59B/U co axial cable. For foaling work up to 600 feet away, you don't need to worry about signal loss.

 

Camera choice - 1/3" CCD monochrome (Black and White) minimum of 400 lines resolution, but 560+ is preferable (and well within your budget), camera to have "Electronic Iris" function; ideally 12v DC powered for safety (all cables [and camera!!!] to be fixed at least 8.5 feet from the top of the bedding material).

 

Wide Dynamic Range (WDR) are not really required for this type of application, as most (but not all) mares foal at night under controlled lighting.

 

Lens suggestion would be a 3.7mm 1/2" CS mount - manual iris, although you may have to block off a small area directly below the camera to stop the mare sticking her 'working end' out of view! Alternatively, a 2.8mm 1/3" CS will cover everything, with slightly smaller detail in the farthest corner.

 

Camera to be fitted into a small weatherproof housing as already suggested.

 

Please please please DO NOT use Infra Red! Low level maintained visible lighting is the preferred option. For example, two x 40 watt tungsten light bulbs (each 1/3rd of the way in from each end) at around twelve feet above the bedding, would provide more than enough light for an average B/W CCD camera. If the bulbs are tungsten (as opposed to low energy fluorescent types) they already emit huge quantities of invisible IR which help the camera to see under low light conditions.

 

If you use Infra Red (IR) and their are complications whilst the mare is lying, as soon as you switch the lights on she will try and get up, and the results can be .....

 

If you leave the lights on about two to three weeks before she is due, she'll settle down with them very quickly.

 

Even with a CCTV camera, the mare can keep you guessing for weeks after the due date, or drop early when you least expect it. Usual signs (waxing, milk running, etc.) can give clues but you still have to keep a careful watch over her.

 

If you run the main camera cable to a bedside table, you can use a small monitor or portable TV in the bedroom, and then install a temporary extension lead from that set down to the main TV in the lounge. When you want to watch on your 'big set' during the day, simply plug the extension video lead onto the main cable, or into a suitable output from the bedroom TV / Monitor.

 

Good luck with the sleep deprivation

[rory 0]

I have one question, what is a mare??

[Cooperman 0]

It's either a female horse, or the installation from hell (depending on whether you are a ****ney or not).

[VST_Man 1]

ok, now this is starting to get interesting. A mare is a female horse generally over the age of 3, or has been used for breeding.

[Cooperman 0]

What about a maiden mare?

[rory 0]

so what is a pony?

[VST_Man 1]

a short horsie..........if it is too short, that would make it a very short horsie. What time it is anyway?

[rory 0]

12 noon...

[Thomas 0]

10:45 Central time.

[creekside 0]

Thank you for making it so plain. Now, what brand? What model? So it sounds like 1 camera will do it...

 

Funny, I had a horse named Cooper...

[VST_Man 1]

Ok, now that you been schooled on the good the bad, and the ugly.......I still recommend a cheapO IR camera. Run it into a VCR, lin in, and watch TV! You can attain all this for less than 100 bucks, toss it in the closet after yer done! If light is an issue, leave them on! If you get the right cheapO, you'll also get audio with it so you'll be able to tune your ear at night to the wonderful sounds of. http://www.cctvimports.com is a decent place to shop, and there are others. Good luck Dad. If you want to save yourself a 100 bucks, hay makes a pretty good bed.

[Cooperman 0]

creekside,

 

so you used to have a horse called Cooper ... how spooky is that?

 

You could choose one of the 'stable' japanese manufacturers (e.g. Panasonic, JVC, Sanyo, Sony etc.). I could suggest something like the Sanyo VCB 3372 (if it's still available), although I can't say what alternatives (or what pricing) are on offer your side of the pond.

 

Lenses from Cosmicar (Pentax), Computar, Tamron all find favour with many on this forum.

 

It would be worth investing in a half decent camera, as once you've got it, should you ever need to keep an eye on a sick animal, you'll be pleased you bought it.

 

Just don't be surprised if your neigh-bours keep wanting to borrow it.

 

That's more than enough puns for one posting.

[creekside 0]

The mare is in the stall, apparantly she wants me to hurry things up a bit. I need to get the camera ASAP. Anyone know what a machine vision camera is??? Will it do?

[creekside 0]

I may have gotten pressured into this. I realize that the camera does not have a model listed. Here are the specs:

 

BW PROFESSIONAL CCD CCTV CAMERA .05 LUX NEW

Pick up Element

Number of pixel 1/3" SONY CCD image sensor

 

512(H) x 492(V) (EIA)

Resolution 470 TV lines

 

Min. Illumination 0.05 Lux / F2.0

 

S/N Ratio 1/60 More than 46 dB

Electronic Shutter >(1/50) to 1/100,000 auto

 

Power Source DC12 ¡Ó 10%

brCurrent consumption 120 mA

Dimensions 47 mm x 42 mm x 70 mm

 

P.S. Does not come with a lens. What do you think? I have noooo idea what all of it means but it seemed to satisfy a lot of the info you people left for me...It's not a done deal yet, what do you think. Desparately needing advice!!

[Cooperman 0]

Hi creekside,

 

I escape from the office for a few days, and what happens ... you go and buy a camera on ebay

 

The basic specs you've listed do have a couple of contradictions in them.

 

EIA (EIAJ) is o.k. for north american Black and White, but the pixel count (512 x 492) does not tally with '470' lines resolution; in fact B&W cameras are normally 380, 400, 420, 560 > 600 lines resolution. I don't recall ever having seen a 470 line unit, although it is a fairly standard figure for high res. colour.

 

The Electronic Shutter (1/50) to 1/100,000 should be 1/60th for the States, 1/50th is CCIR which is the standard in Europe and many other parts of the globe.

 

The sensitivity figure is most likely on the imager, not scene illumination (x10 = 0.5 lux scene). If it is 0.05 lux scene illum. with an F2 lens, that would be rather surprising.

 

Reading between the lines, if the camera were fitted with a 1/2" 3.7mm Manual Iris CS mount lens (try and double check that the camera will accept standard CS mount lenses - in the highly unlikely event that it's 'C' mount, you will need a different lens), and you buy a 12v DC Regulated power supply unit (minimum 500mA) to drive it, it should do the job fine, but it's unlikely to make you gasp at the quality.

 

Better get your skates on though, I can sense she's beginning to get restless

 

Oh by the way, 'machine vision' is a definite no no for your application.

[creekside 0]

Ok, so that camera was not what I got. When I phoned the company (they sell 8 billion cameras) and talked to the camerageek she said I needed a:

 

3757 SONY 1/3" HIGH RES HAD CCD SENSOR

EIA: 768X494, CCIR: 752X582 (HxV)

600 TV LINES

.2 LUX @ F2.0

MORE THAN 48 db

EIA: 1/60s - 1/100,000s, CCIR: 1/50s - 1/110,000s

YES

INTERLACE 2:1

0.45

BOARD LENS f3.6mm @ f2.0

INTERNAL, NEGATIVE SYNC.

1 Vp-p / 75 OHMS

DC 12V / 110 mA

14oF - 122o F

21.4 x 80.6 mm

80G

 

Who knows, I'll just be glad to get it here as you are completely correct in sensing she is near! I have no idea when but she's just ginormous so I hope it's soon...she looks like a big orange mastadon!

 

Please tell me this is a great camera and I'll be thrilled...ok just tell me the real deal...btw glad you are back coop!

[Cooperman 0]

Never a dull moment ...

 

Ignore the CCIR figures, they are not for North American cameras, it's EIAJ which interests you.

 

The spec. indicates it's a HAD sensor, not Hyper HAD or Exwave, so the chances are it's quite an old (low cost) design. The killer is the 3.6mm "board" lens. No Iris to adjust for optimum quality, and by all accounts, a Printed Circuit Board camera, which is not really what you were looking for.

 

If the spec is accurate, it will do the job (not outstanding), but unless the PCB is adequately protected, the acidic atmosphere of a foaling box, will eat away the component solder joints quite quickly.

 

If it's cheap enough, it will provide an adequate 'taster' of what to expect, but as a long term investment, it's not really the one to go for.